The effect of cables - A sane debate

going by the pics posted by @drkrack , looks like he meant to wrap the wires in 'nada' and not exactly electrically insulate. in that case i think there is no cause for concern, or am i missing something?
Yes just wrapped it, I was about to cut a cotton towel, but this seemed like a good one. It could work without that.
I don't think that's dangerous because bare wire is never exposed.

Also it does not make sense to use a wire thicker than the wire that is in wall. Most of our in wall wire is 2.5 sq mm or 4 sq mm. If your in wall is 6 sq mm it’s fine.
Mine is 4sqmm, so 4sqmm could work well.
What probably makes more sense is to use wire of the same thickness as the in wall wire for hot and neutral and use a thicker wire for the ground to lower impedance. That IMO is a better design. As in all things audio YMMV
Yes this seems quite logical, I'll try this one next time. Thanks.

I got the impression from flavor 2 mentioned here.
https://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html
 
Cables (Power, Analog InterConnect, Speaker, Digital) are really one of the key components in the entire audio chain. They do change the sound (good or bad) of a system, period. However the effect of using aftermarket cables in a given system would greatly depend on the resolving power of the speaker and rest of the electronics in the system. It is also very difficult to put a quantitative measurement of how a cable sounds given the limited capability of the audio measuring tools that we currently have available in the market. So
1. Since these cable driven changes are system specific and are very poorly quantified it often creates a perception of a Snake-Oil in the audiophile community
2. It is relatively time consuming to figure out the set of cables that will optimize your system in your room. The only way to evaluate cables would be to audition them in your system in your room which requires a great deal of your time and sometimes money

Thanks.
 
Had visited the cable shop for my HT requirement, this IDE data cable caught my attention. With 34 strands, thought of giving it a try as speaker cables. With 80rs/meter it's an inexpensive experiment. Google didn't give much idea, just divided into 17 strands per polarity and connected.
The nordost base cable looks similar with 14strands per polarity AFAIK.

Impressions after 4hrs listening
+ves
Absolutely no harshness
Very detailed LF response
Good vocals
Pretty VFM

-ves
Lack of detailed presentation
Lacks sparkle and airyness
Slightly boomy
Anybody else tried them?
View attachment 30127
It will be interesting to know what the cable capacitance and inductance is. Reduced harshness some time may also be because of high cable capacitance as the frequency roll off could be earlier.
 
In my experience, I have noticed one major factor with cables, is its ability to carry mechanical vibration back to a component. For example, a speaker cable do carry some speaker vibration back into the amplifier. This causes resonance in the amplifier and increases the noise floor. Anyone interested in the audible effects of mechanical resonance on electronics signal can search on the internet, there is a very exhaustive PhD thesis from an University in Hungary, where they have measured this effect on an Oscilloscope with audio signal. This is known as Microphonic Resonance. Practically, any solid state electronics is highly prone to Microphonic resonance at audio spectrum. I would suggest to anyone interested, please try putting some weights at the amplifier end of the speaker cable. Based on my interactions with many of our forum members, most people associate resonating spikes in the convoluted amplified signal as "Highly Detailed" sound and are extremely happy listening to Tizzz of digital grain. Those who want to achieve better musicality from their system, it's highly possible and achievable to fine tune a purely digital setup sound as much analogue.

Microphonic Resonance is the reason why chassis of really high performing equipments are heavy. It's also the reason why people hear difference when placing speakers on wood or stone. It's also the reason why chunky power cords sound different.

Incase, anyone wants to try out some experiments, the mechanical vibration waves do manifest the same skin effect as electrical waves. Surface of the cables carry high frequency vibrations and core of the cables carry low frequency. The end result as always, depends on the true transparency of one's system and listening preference.
 
Reduced harshness some time may also be because of high cable capacitance as the frequency roll off could be earlier.
Yes but the inner wires are quite thin actually.
Instead of Speaker Can these make up for better USB data cables?
Anyway they're designed to transmit a digital signal? Any experience with using them as USB A-B cable?
 
Yes but the inner wires are quite thin actually.
Instead of Speaker Can these make up for better USB data cables?
Anyway they're designed to transmit a digital signal? Any experience with using them as USB A-B cable?
No, I have not used them in any USB based device. IMO, for speakers and analogue IC, it's better to stick to analogue cables. Telephone cables could be used as they are designed for audio frequency.
 
For digital the characteristic impedance is important so I feel it's best to use the cable intended for the specific application instead of trying to brew one's own cable. Example: SPDIF coax must be 75 Ohm, AES/EBU must be 110 Ohm, etc.

If I remember correctly telephone circuits have a characteristic impedance of 600 Ohms.
 
TIL

"If you are using a tube amplifier, the output transformers using the four ohm tap will not give nearly the performance that the same transformer will do on eight ohms let alone sixteen ohms. In addition, the speaker cable used driving a 4 ohm load becomes far more critical than it is a 8 ohms and 16 ohms. This is because the speaker cable is in series with the output impedance of the amplifier and so can have a much more noticable effect on damping when low impedance speakers are used. Fortunately, with all the Single-Ended triode amplifiers now available, the market for sixteen ohm speakers has improved quite a lot and they are once again (like they were in the fifties) available."

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Common_Amplifier_Myths.php (added emphasis)

Found this while reading up on cables that I would need in future. Will start a separate thread for it, but I will have 4 ohm pigs that need 35 feet of cable :\ (the orientation leaves with a displacement of 8 feet from the power amp but the routing is going to be problematic)

ciao
gr
 
In my setup my speaker impedance is around 4.8 ohm - measured. They sound much better on the 8 ohm tap rather than the 4 ohm tap. In the 4 ohm tap it sounds a bit brighter.
 
Hari Iyer, when you measure impedance, I assume its at a definite frequency. do you do this across frequencies curve to see min max and mean impedance as well ?
 
Hari Iyer, when you measure impedance, I assume its at a definite frequency. do you do this across frequencies curve to see min max and mean impedance as well ?
yes impedance is a function of frequency. Z=f(Frequency). The Russian driver is relatively flatter impedance in the audible range. Check out attachment.
 

Attachments

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One Quick Question,
If we make all the 3 Cables ;
Power Cable, Speaker Cables and Interconnects from Same Type of Cable say Finolex 4 Sqmm (using the extra insulation, as required for different types of Cables) , will there be any additional sonic benefits due to the synergy? Anyone tried that?
 
One Quick Question,
If we make all the 3 Cables ;
Power Cable, Speaker Cables and Interconnects from Same Type of Cable say Finolex 4 Sqmm (using the extra insulation, as required for different types of Cables) , will there be any additional sonic benefits due to the synergy? Anyone tried that?
Imo, the conductor is just part of the cable. The insulator and it's dielectric constant will equally influence sound. Finolex 4 sqmm would be good as power cables as they are pvc insulated. For IC & speaker cables it's better to have PE or cotton insulated. Check if you can get 4 sqmm in PE insulation too
 
Drkrack, power and speaker cables can be made from same cable. For speaker cable, you need to reduce resistance and inductance. Capacitance is not all that important.

IC needs as low a capacitance as possible. Hence thinner the wire better it is.

Avoid hard pvc. Soft pvc which feels like rubber is fine. Teflon and cotton are considered to be better. Most pro cables use some sort of soft PVC
 
I read this today - couldnt help not sharing.

Loudspeaker Cables
Like audio interconnects, loudspeaker cable is a hotly debated topic. At one extreme, we read in glossy ads and the breathless reviews in audio magazines that the length of wire that spans between power amplifier and speaker is the single most important audio component. At the Cardas website, we read:

"It is said, wire is just wire. In reality, a high-end audio cable must balance resistance, capacitance, inductance, conductance, velocity of propagation, RF radiation and absorption, mechanical resonance, strand interaction, high filtering, reflections, electrical resonance, dissipation factors, envelope delay, phase distortion, harmonic distortion, , structural return loss, corrosion, cross-talk, bridge-tap and the interaction of these and a hundred other things."​
"A hundred other things" wow that's a lot of other things. No wonder it cost $8,590 for a pair of 6-meter lengths. In the world of high-end cables, alas, this cable is a beer-budget product, as the AudioQuest K2 terminated speaker cable, with UST plugs in a 8-foot pair costs $14,049.75, not including tax and armor-car delivery. If my memory does not fail me, the Audioquest Everest series was even more expensive. But even that vertiginously high price is middling compared to the Nordost ODIN Supreme Reference Cables or the Modena speaker cable by Allan Shane, which cost $55,000 the pair. Imagine a burglar breaking in a house and stupidly stealing a $4,000 necklace when $110,000 worth of bi-wired Modena cables lay at his feet.

burglar.png
 
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