The league of (extra)ordinary gentlemen

[venkatcr]

Suri, Ramanujam, Ajinkya, Gobble, Asit...... I am deeply impressed. What started off as a thread to lighten the mood with yours truly playing the prankster has turned out to be serious discussion on science, physics, religion, belief, athesim, and a host of other points. What has impressed me even more in the complete lack of aggression or any form of anger on extremely controversial topics. Kudos to all of you for the way the discussions are going.

Keep it up.

Cheers.

 

[gobble]

Reading that link and going by that page alone (I havent read his book) - It appears that Richard Dawkins is the typical ignorant westerner - a man of learning and high qualifications but ignorant none the less about Hindu Cosmology.

Let me qualify - that article is typical western mumbo jumbo representative of western "rationalism". Their "isms" and convoluted explanations and definitions in a language grossly inadequate to describe many ideas and concepts - I have little respect for. This is a personal opinion and I am not interesting in flaming or debating anyone who feels offended.

Regards

 

[kaushik]

back to gentlemen and the stuff he will buy ...

farmer with analytical brain
....with over 10years experience ...and he discovered that wood as vibration eaters..that too from cables

6moons.com showcase: Entreq Energy-Transforming Equipment

see pic here:http://www.entreq.com/filer/Bilder/Produktbilder/p_cw_s_sup09_800.jpg

is it that reputed audio sites have to survive in recession by placing any ad?


and here one more finding ..PS1(ya play stn 1) was a 6000$ audio machine:http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-1-the-audiophile-s-dream--32269.phtml

 

[unleash_me]

Hmmm....PS1 huh?

....with every CD I tried, the PS1 exhibited a superior level of rhythmic acuity, orsince it's true that an amplifier or CD player can't make recorded music sound faster or more propulsive than it actually isa superior lack of the distortions that can blunt leading-edge transients and make music sound temporally dull and listless. Even slow, broadly paced music sounded involving through the PS1: the best and truest praise I could give it. --Stereophile

Or what ever that means!

 

[gobble]

see pic here:http://www.entreq.com/filer/Bilder/Produktbilder/p_cw_s_sup09_800.jpg

Thats a dual use RCA cable cum skipping rope !! Improves your blood circulation to the brain to prepare you for serious listening sessions - optimizes the pathway from the tympanum in the ear to the cerebral cortex for a more fluid listening experience... enhances the neuron pathways that discern low and high frequencies, making them more responsive and receptive to audio signals - thus improving the frequency extension of your audio gear by jogging your brain cells and increased blood flow .......


Cheers

 

[psychotropic]

hey Gobble, with all due respect, Dawkins is a brilliant scholar and his "the god delusion" book is a must-read for everyone. It is a clear, logical and beautifully argued case for rationalism. I would urge you to read this book and then arrive at your conclusions. Perhaps the website itself is insufficient.

I do agree that he uses a confrontational tone, and that does not do him any favours, but if you set that aside, and concentrate on what he has to say, it's very compelling.

Of course, the parallels between religion and audiophilia are too strong to ignore. Too many 'articles of faith' that the believers are unwilling to put to test by standards of logic, science and reason But like religion, these articles of faith bring joy and happiness to many, so who am I diss them?

Let me qualify - that article is typical western mumbo jumbo representative of western "rationalism". Their "isms" and convoluted explanations and definitions in a language grossly inadequate to describe many ideas and concepts - I have little respect for. This is a personal opinion and I am not interesting in flaming or debating anyone who feels offended.

Regards

 

[square_wave]

Very Interesting conversations...)

 

[square_wave]

Why are getting so worried about how the westerner thinks about India ? They believe in what they want to believe. Same as we do here. It is none of our business. They are not meddling in any of our business anyway. Why all the fuss ??
If we are so good, then we should be developing fast and giving the population a very good quality of life rather than being arm-chair philosophers. Let us prove that we are the best by doing something about it. Then the world will start taking notice. We live in the present not in some bygone era.
Arm-chair philosophism and Arm-chair activism is a symptom of laziness and decadence. It is a disease.

Mr. NR Narayana Murthy (Infosys Chairman) said this at speech at Lal Bahadhur Sastry Institute of Management
I quote
Our intellectual arrogance has also not helped our society. I have traveled extensively, and in my experience, have not come across another society where people are as contemptuous of better societies as we are, with as little progress as we have achieved. Remember that arrogance breeds hypocrisy. No other society gloats so much about the past as we do, with as little current accomplishment, Friends, this is not a new phenomenon, but at least a thousand years old. For instance, Al Barouni, the famous Arabic logician and traveler of the 10th century, who spent about 30 years in India from 997 AD to around 1027 AD, referred to this trait of Indians. According to him, during his visit, most Indian pundits considered it below their dignity even to hold arguments with him. In fact, on a few occasions when a pundit was willing to listen to him, and found his arguments to be very sound, he invariably asked Barouni: which Indian pundit taught these smart things!
The most important attribute of a progressive society is respect for others who have accomplished more than they themselves have, and learn from them. Contrary to this, our leaders make us believe that other societies do not know anything! At the same time, everyday, in the newspapers, you will find numerous claims from our leaders that ours is the greatest nation. These people would do well to remember Thomas Carlyle's words: The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none.

 

[srramanujam]

My wife is extremely religious and we have a mutual friend who is a non believer. I am largely ignorant. I used to pick up God conversations with my wife. I was always the loser, but would pick her winning arguments and try it with this friend who is a non believer. I would end up losing with him also.

He then gave me this book - Selfish Gene, written by Richard Dawkins. I was convinced to be a non believer after reading this book. Routine proponents of religion attribute life and universe to God. Physics ends up questioning many of the universe related attributions to God. Darwin, and this book Selfish Gene, almost demolish any of the life related attributions to God.

One is then left with a philosophical approach to God rather than a belief or faith based approach.

One theory of evolution seems to apply to hi fi as well. One piece of complex equipment or cable, almost invariably breeds a mutant with an even more complex claim.

I am waiting for the day when we will have a room spray which improves acoustic dispersion and eliminates interference, when sprayed between the left channel and the listener.

 

[square_wave]

hey Gobble, with all due respect, Dawkins is a brilliant scholar and his "the god delusion" book is a must-read for everyone. It is a clear, logical and beautifully argued case for rationalism. I would urge you to read this book and then arrive at your conclusions. Perhaps the website itself is insufficient.

I do agree that he uses a confrontational tone, and that does not do him any favours, but if you set that aside, and concentrate on what he has to say, it's very compelling.

Of course, the parallels between religion and audiophilia are too strong to ignore. Too many 'articles of faith' that the believers are unwilling to put to test by standards of logic, science and reason But like religion, these articles of faith bring joy and happiness to many, so who am I diss them?

Agree with you on this. There is very less mumbo jumbo there

 

[suri]

Of course, the parallels between religion and audiophilia are too strong to ignore. Too many 'articles of faith' that the believers are unwilling to put to test by standards of logic, science and reason But like religion, these articles of faith bring joy and happiness to many, so who am I diss them?

Hi psychotropic,
strong parallels - but a difference in manifesto so divergent that it is difficult not to comment.

audiophilia mostly stays in the home and heart of the believer, and the most inconvenience that a person of a different persuasion might have to face is - having to listen to a system he/she does not like.

religion, on the other hand, spills out into the streets and into the public domain. humans kill other humans and animals in the name of their lord, humans make their gods participate in their crass commerce, humans control and subjugate other humans in the name of their god.

most of all the strife in this world has two causal agents-

(1) woman:sad:

(2) religion:sad:

 

[anm]

don't wait for the spray - be the ONE ( neo )and dodge the unwanted waves.

 

[anm]

(3) - speakers for example - Stereophile: Wilson Audio Specialties MAXX Series 3 loudspeaker

Hi psychotropic,
strong parallels - but a difference in manifesto so divergent that it is difficult not to comment.

audiophilia mostly stays in the home and heart of the believer, and the most inconvenience that a person of a different persuasion might have to face is - having to listen to a system he/she does not like.

religion, on the other hand, spills out into the streets and into the public domain. humans kill other humans and animals in the name of their lord, humans make their gods participate in their crass commerce, humans control and subjugate other humans in the name of their god.

most of all the strife in this world has two causal agents-

(1) woman:sad:

(2) religion:sad:

 

[Hiten]

It was Gods will that this thread be converted from " The league of (extra)ordinary gentleman" to "Debate on God"

 

[square_wave]

Hi psychotropic,
strong parallels - but a difference in manifesto so divergent that it is difficult not to comment.

audiophilia mostly stays in the home and heart of the believer, and the most inconvenience that a person of a different persuasion might have to face is - having to listen to a system he/she does not like.

religion, on the other hand, spills out into the streets and into the public domain. humans kill other humans and animals in the name of their lord, humans make their gods participate in their crass commerce, humans control and subjugate other humans in the name of their god.

most of all the strife in this world has two causal agents-

(1) woman:sad:

(2) religion:sad:

Agree with you totally Suri. I can really relate to the way you think

 

[psychotropic]

true true, but then i have this theory. Somewhat like the law of conservation of energy......that the total amount of conflict in a human relationship will remain constant, and by extension, the total amount of conflict in all the human relationships in the world taken together. This conflict will seek out vehicles and issues and points of view on which to piggyback. The conflicts can convert themselves into different forms and variations, but it will never go away. This is of course utterly unscientific and completely anecdotal, but the reason I am saying it is, that people will fight, kill, murder, pillage and all of those things, using some excuse or the other. If not religion, it will be something else. I am not sure I would say that religion intrinsically has conflict promoting attributes.

Any passionately held belief can lead to conflict, as we can see on these very forums . It so happens that the chief passionately held belief of our times is religion. This may not always be the case, but the conflict is not going to go away.

Hi psychotropic,
strong parallels - but a difference in manifesto so divergent that it is difficult not to comment.

audiophilia mostly stays in the home and heart of the believer, and the most inconvenience that a person of a different persuasion might have to face is - having to listen to a system he/she does not like.

religion, on the other hand, spills out into the streets and into the public domain. humans kill other humans and animals in the name of their lord, humans make their gods participate in their crass commerce, humans control and subjugate other humans in the name of their god.

most of all the strife in this world has two causal agents-

(1) woman:sad:

(2) religion:sad:

 

[anm]

you mean audiophiles killing each other for tube vs SS believers?

 

[Yogesh]

Hi psychotropic,
strong parallels - but a difference in manifesto so divergent that it is difficult not to comment.

audiophilia mostly stays in the home and heart of the believer, and the most inconvenience that a person of a different persuasion might have to face is - having to listen to a system he/she does not like.

religion, on the other hand, spills out into the streets and into the public domain. humans kill other humans and animals in the name of their lord, humans make their gods participate in their crass commerce, humans control and subjugate other humans in the name of their god.

most of all the strife in this world has two causal agents-

(1) woman:sad:

(2) religion:sad:

I will modify it a bit,

(1) Partner to reproduce - Any Animate is hardwired to carry on the species lineage. It will try to produce as many offsprings as possible with as many partners as possible as it will enhance the chances of survival of species. Man/Woman OR Male/Female whoever is designed to dominate in particular species. So, every animate tries to grab as many partners as he can, Hence the conflict.

(2) Power - This point is merely an offshoot of the first one. Power also helped in survival of self as u had too many hands to get food/shelter for u. It is quest of an animate to prove he is most eligible to reproduce so he can reproduce as much as possible. Power to control others to u know get as many....( Urge to be powerfull has taken todays humans to that extent that ppl do any things to just be powerfull, and survival of the race has gone to sidelined , and sex become a thing for mere entertainment). Religion is mere a tool for control over others. When Humans were evolving, initially there was only muscle power. When intellect developed, Intelligent but physically feeble devised an strategy to use "fear of unknown" (First, Death, Concept of soul/ghost of departed,life after death etc.) as tool to control others(Even in todays Adivasi communities r bipolar in power structure, 1. Sardar 2. Poojari/Witch etc.). The concept eventually evolved in to concept of God and then in religion. Later, Muscle power converted itself into todays political power with evolution of culture, emergence of tools, as muscle power was not sufficient to attain power. Democracy was invented in europe by nobles to grab power from kings. Democracy then backfired for nobles as Commoners used the same tool against them. Later wih wealth one more power emerged, Financial power. Nowdays Netas-Businessmen et all use democracy/business to their means. Godmen use religion to their means. They have opened so many franchises of God (Religions-sects et all). They r so busy managing their franchises that they have forgotten God.

In short, Every conflict in world arises from urge of an individual to Power/Control others, primitive requirement for power was reproduction/Survival.

Individul tries to control whatever he can, Household, Office environment, Society, Town, Flock of his religion, world and what not.

Sorry to be a bore in a Dangerously Hillarious thread, I might have caught only serious part of it.

 

[Hiten]

 

[square_wave]

ISorry to be a bore in a Dangerously Hillarious thread, I might have caught only serious part of it.

It is not boring Yogesh. Very enlightening post. You have very concisely put across centuries of evolution of human behavior. How the basic needs of mankind namely satisfying hunger and procreation evolved into what it is today. Completely with you