Tonewinner AT 300: 7.3.6 AV processor

Enkay78

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I just wish that an Indian Dealer/vendor could supply such devices at a price commensurate with our Indian market.


Just imagine base price of Rs 53k for 50 pieces......which can be sold at 70-80k.


And the specs:

ToneWinner dolby atmos decoder 9.3.4 av power echo stereo processor HDMI bluetooth KTV function pre amplifier
Introduction
AT-300 is a professional 16 channels home theater AV processor that supports the latest immersive audio formats, including Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and smart phone apps control. It is with an abundant of input & output ports.
Main Feature
1. Support Dolby Atmos DolbyTrue HD & all the downward Dolby audio formats.
2. Support DTS:X, DTS-Master & all the downward HD audio formats.
3. Support HDMI2.0 & HDCP2.2.
4. Support 4K/60Hz,RGB 4:4:4, 18GHz full bandwidth video signal, support Dolby Vision and HDR 10+ video signal.
5. Support stacked OSD menu operation display.
6. Support 9.3.4 or 7.3.6 in total 16 channels Dolby Atmos decoding lineout output.
7. Built-in auto smart room acoustic testing & compensation for spectral characteristic, loudness of each channel & distances between each channel.
8. Built-in Bluetooth audio receiver function.
9. Built-in audio player function, support files playing from TF card & USB disk, support several lossless & compressed audio format files playing, such as FLAC, APE, WAV, MP3 & etc; support multi-layer folder management.
10. Support smart phone App control.
11. Support over 12 kinds of drivers configuration from 2.0 channel to 7.3.6.
12. Support HDMI 6 in 2 out, 2 ways coaxial 2 ways optical audio output, 3 ways of analogue audio input.
13. Support 5.1 channel external mixing input & can add external mixer.
14. Support RS232 integrated controller, IR inputs, and Trigger outputs.
15. Support HDMI ARC, eARC, and CEC.
16. Support as high as 1 second lip sync adjustment.
17. Each channel has as many as 7 to 11 band parameters EQ.
18. Support audio video signal combine group.
19. Use the latest ADI new due core DSP.
20. Support input source independent setting & parameters storing function.
21. Support random combination of video and audio signals from different input sources.
22. Support user-defined rename for the input source name






Now combine thess with Class D amps of Sabaj a20a (3 for LCR) and Sabaj a10a (5 for surrounds and Atmos).....and compare the COST OF A MARANTZ/DENON


I just hope Indian vendors wakes hot to thee. In USA, a vendor is selling these as hotcakes.
 

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Enkay78

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And off course enticing:




And all summithifi is doing is getting these in bulk orders.


Wish and Indian vendor start doing this.

Time to break the INFLATED STRONGHOLDS of PRE-PRO (separates).

I have a strong suspicion Emotiva is sourcing from tonewinner.
 

sandeepmohan

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That is a carbon copy of a certain Emotiva model. I feel sorry for the engineers at Emotiva as that looks their their design being sold at a fraction of the cost, after they've put in all the effort in designing it. Anyway, that is a win for someone looking at something more affordable. Its not often we look at a pre amplifier for AV all that often.
 

Enkay78

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That is a carbon copy of a certain Emotiva model. I feel sorry for the engineers at Emotiva as that looks their their design being sold at a fraction of the cost, after they've put in all the effort in designing it. Anyway, that is a win for someone looking at something more affordable. Its not often we look at a pre amplifier for AV all that often.
What made you think that it is Emotiva's design that is being sold? It is perhaps also possible that Emotiva made tonewinner design their product as ODM/OEM.

Tonewinner is an OEM/ODM manufacturer.
 

sandeepmohan

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What made you think that it is Emotiva's design that is being sold?
Here's Emotiva's version of the pre amplifier. Look familiar no? Aside from the lack of DIN connectors, thats a identical mash up of internal components or boards.

With the Emotiva now retired, I guess Tonewinner can basically sell the design.
 

Enkay78

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Here's Emotiva's version of the pre amplifier. Look familiar no? Aside from the lack of DIN connectors, thats a identical mash up of internal components or boards.

With the Emotiva now retired, I guess Tonewinner can basically sell the design.
Perhaps you are misunderstanding me - why are you thinking that Tonewinner who is an ODM/OEM manufacturer from so many years would copy from Emotiva’s engineers? Why is it not the reverse possible that Emotiva chooses an ODM/OEM project with Tonewinner?

As a consumer I welcome the direction the Chinese manufacturers are providing products without the inflated price aaociated with conventional manufacturers.

I mean if you want to buy a pre-pro from marantaz, heck it’s expensive as hell. Given a choice I will buy this Tonewinner one….which is having better specs and balanced outputs which are seen in premium pre-pro.
 

sandeepmohan

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Perhaps you are misunderstanding me - why are you thinking that Tonewinner who is an ODM/OEM manufacturer from so many years would copy from Emotiva’s engineers? Why is it not the reverse possible that Emotiva chooses an ODM/OEM project with Tonewinner?
They are a OEM for Emotiva. Not a ODM. Emotiva have their own engineering team back in the USA. Everything is designed there and then sent to Tonewinner or whoever builds their products. If you have further doubts, you can call them. In the early days, Dan would pick up the phone and answer your queries. Its not often you get someone who runs the company to answer your questions.

The reverse is definitely possible. Not in the case of Emotiva. There might be other brands who do so. I think Mark Levinson has a design team in China.

Emotiva isn't what I'd call a conventional manufacturer. They are still niche. I don't believe their prices are inflated at all. Their 5 channel BasX amplifier retails for about ~Rs. 90K shipped. I would not call that inflated.

Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc, its a different ball game all together. They will charge a premium as its a business after all. They have marketing, in house R&D, licensing and whatever else that goes with running a business. They can charge a premium and get away with it. These are not companies that started in the last decade. They've been around for >50 years. They have several electrical designs refined over the years and patented.

If you can point be to a design from Tonewinner that is genuinely their own, that is more helpful. This isn't a company like Denafrips, Holo or even SMSL. These are boutique Hi Fi companies with some stand out products.

No doubt, its changing or has already changed. The Chinese are now coming out with their own electrical designs. Just not one we are discussing.
 

Enkay78

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The Tonewinner company website says :

ToneWinner is the first batch enterprises in China that got the Dolby Atmos, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, the DTS Master, Pro Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS:X , United States BBE, SRS, HDMI technical certifications. Moreover, as an important techniques partner of Dolby in China, ToneWinner obtainedDolby Atmostechnology licensed on Dec.2014; it is the 1st company obtains this advanced technology in China. ToneWinner is also a authorized adopter of HDMI2.0, HDCP2.2. Besides, ToneWinner is the authorized manufacture of Apple MFI.

All ToneWinner’s products have passed ISO9002, ISO9001:2000, CCC, and we can help to assist our ODE/OEM/international distributors to get all the required certificates needed by their countries.
 

mail2sumanth

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It is worth checking these products besides who copied whom, when I first Came across this product it was 70k for single unit. Now it is 1.15lac. They have good amplifiers in paper. Looks bulky.
 

Enkay78

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Maybe it may look like a rip off. And we go into generalisation then Android is a rip off of iOS Apple. And Apple is a rip off of Xerox so….on and so forth.

But my intention of starting this post about this product is NOT about THAT aspect. Rather I want to reflect on how such premium pre-pro with balanced XLR outs are within the reach of an affordable budget for many of us.

The product can be bought at base price of Rs 53k when bought bulk 50 pieces. So if an Indian vendor can buy 50 pieces at this price, sell such products at Rs 70-80k……then (I know I am wishful thinking) WHO BENEFITS? CAN US CONSUMERS BE AT LEAST GIVEN SUCH CHOICES OR DIVIDENDS?


I know this forum has all kinds of members, some even industry insiders, vendors and specialists. I mean, sometimes I wish there were better Indian forums like AVSFORUMS which can influence the industry and market. But I often times, wonder whether this forum has any influence other then just being one the many forums discussing AV gadgets. (Again I am keeping too much expectations from this forum). But how one wish that a collective consumer forum can influence the vendors/dealers/markets to bring about competitive prices in India. Afterall why are HT devices/gadgets not as popular in India like is US/Singapore and now China? People there are getting much more value for their money’s worth.

(If this sound like a rant….you all have to excuse me. It just that sometimes I cannot shake of a feeling of being in a market which could be more than what it is……we just balk at other markets, forgetting we can be THE MARKET others can envy. It just that need to break the niche circle and be more popular - which starts with being more affordable, and various categories. (I admire the Chinese market - they have so many companies in every level of market - for example - Sabaj lower segment, Loxjie a little above lower segment, Topoing SMSL at mid segment, Gustard Matrix audio at the higher level. There are lots of other Chinese companies. It is just the gist. Let’s look at the Indian market - are there any brands offering for lower segment equivalent to denon/maramtz/Yamaha? If I am ignorant kindly enlighten me - here I am talking about same internal components but different price points. So I was wondering how this market in India mature into a popular one? How will those in this industry bring about mass popularity- if they don’t create affordability for each market segment?)

:) :) Rant over:):)
 

jai1611

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That 50k bulk cost + shipping + import duty + gst + service costs + working capital costs + margin would likely be higher than 70-80k

Even beyond that, selling a no name Chinese product in a niche, relatively premium segment like pre-pros would be hard
 

Enkay78

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That 50k bulk cost + shipping + import duty + gst + service costs + working capital costs + margin would likely be higher than 70-80k

Even beyond that, selling a no name Chinese product in a niche, relatively premium segment like pre-pros would be hard
Then how did Topping/SMSL/Gustard/Kayin/Loxjie gaining traction…..in EU and US markets?
Topping D90SE is challenging big boys in measurements…..and they are selling in numbers. SMSL is selling good numbers of their products so too Matrix audio, Gustard.

I mean not knowing Tonewinner which is quite a big brand in Chinese market is understandable. But to now condescend that such ‘Chinese products’ may be inferior product than all those EU/USA predicts (which are manufactured and assembled in Chinese markets ….including all these speakers that we love)…..somehow I feel our Indian industry is failing to read the developments.(Much like how much our auto industry seems to be missing the EV bandwagon- look at the Chinese EV markets, they are years ahead of us)

A summithifi in USA is selling good numbers of this Chinese products- they are letting the product talk.
 

Enkay78

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At the same time I do hope that our own Indian companies like Indiqaudio/Norge audio etc come up with products which can be competitive price wise/performance wise. Sadly we do have an inertia which is ‘Indian’…..and mostly related with quality and performance.

A Purifi module amp - assembled and sold by an Indian company which can compete with Apollon etc……how one wish Allo comes to the market with their CLASS D amps. (I heard about a new amp passed on TPA3255 etc? If they can sell NCORE amps/Purifi amsp……)
 

jai1611

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Then how did Topping/SMSL/Gustard/Kayin/Loxjie gaining traction…..in EU and US markets?
Topping D90SE is challenging big boys in measurements…..and they are selling in numbers. SMSL is selling good numbers of their products so too Matrix audio, Gustard.

I mean not knowing Tonewinner which is quite a big brand in Chinese market is understandable. But to now condescend that such ‘Chinese products’ may be inferior product than all those EU/USA predicts (which are manufactured and assembled in Chinese markets ….including all these speakers that we love)…..somehow I feel our Indian industry is failing to read the developments.(Much like how much our auto industry seems to be missing the EV bandwagon- look at the Chinese EV markets, they are years ahead of us)

A summithifi in USA is selling good numbers of this Chinese products- they are letting the product talk.


In a large market like the US with established consumer protection laws, its easier to try and push a brand like this. In a small market like India, getting consumers to trust a premium product from a brand like that is much harder. Remember pre processors are a lot more niche a product than something like a dac

On your comment about Indian companies, they do make some world class products at competitive prices. However, none of them have the scale needed to make av receivers - certifications like dolby etc need volume. They also don't have access to "forced labour" that some Chinese companies allegedly do
 

Enkay78

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In a large market like the US with established consumer protection laws, its easier to try and push a brand like this. In a small market like India, getting consumers to trust a premium product from a brand like that is much harder. Remember pre processors are a lot more niche a product than something like a dac

On your comment about Indian companies, they do make some world class products at competitive prices. However, none of them have the scale needed to make av receivers - certifications like dolby etc need volume. They also don't have access to "forced labour" that some Chinese companies allegedly do
That’s exactly why forum like this should have the influence to push the market.
What’s the harm in selling OEM products, rebadge them or concentrate on after sales service these Chines products? Isnt this the same model for Indian vendors doing for SOUND UNITED PRODUCTS? Are they just dealers for after sales service?

Anyway I understand the angle. But it will be interesting to see how far
https://www.summithifi.com/

push Tonewinner products in Canada and USA. (The similar analogy is Xiaomi and Mi phones). Consumers like me do have the luxury of ordering from Chinese vendors ….even with risk for after sales service.(luckily I have not face any issues with my Sabaj D5, Topping D90se, Topping A90, Hifiman, CCA 16 etc…..I am currently negotiating a retail purchase for Tonewinner AT 300.)

Correct me if I am wrong but I do feel there a whole lot of grey markets for our popular brands which are imported through Singapore.
 
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