Tube hybrid Vs Full tube

auralwave76

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Greetings all!!
Looking to upgrade to tube audio.
Have some experiences so far -- Have tried hybrid tube[tube +solid state] and pure tube amps[mostly hand built/ Vintage], trying to find guidance/feedback/ help to decide on sourcing
Clarity from people who have used / experienced / heard would be more in line with what would actually help .
Note : Music for reference Jazz & Old Rock primarily.I Use both analog and digital sources/players [tape / lp + cd + hires]
>>>>>>>>Hybrid tube amps Vs Pure tube amps <<<<<<<<<<<<< [leaving out uber tech and uber prices which aren't manageable practically for myself]
Regards
 
What speakers do you have ? As yogibear wrote, that will help decide.
 
Yogibear , thanks for the quick response. Was going to start another thread regarding the inevitable Single ended triode vs Push pull seperately.
If you could please specify your experience with hybrid and pure tube.
In my experience high effeciency speakers or not the pure tube amps i have used always had a hum. My Sansui Int Tube had a very very low hum but still there . The rest had a considerably audible hum.
My understanding is that the Hum is a problem which just exists with pure tube. Dunno if the super high priced pure tube brands have addressed and solved this issue. Even if they have it is of no practical use to me due to affordability (would love to be the 1% of the 1% ofthe 1% :)
 
Arj, i have Horn loaded open baffles [Altec] + B&W 602.5 S3
Have used Martin Logans and another B&W 603 S3 but settled on these.
For Jazz the open baffles with tube sound fab, but a bit under for rock, bass lacks a bit there.
 
I would say it depends on
1. Budget - is your budget <1L
2. Are your speakers less than 93dB sensitive?
3. Do you like your Music Loud?
If you answered Yes to any of the above, then feasibility of Tube is rather low
 
My understanding is that the Hum is a problem which just exists with pure tube. :)
In my limited understanding I dont think so. A badly designed, badly routed / assmebled (wires etc.), low quality transformer may give hum at speaker output. At full volume (that is at maximum) you may get some hum/noise from any amplifier SS or tube.
Regards
 
Arj, i have Horn loaded open baffles [Altec] + B&W 602.5 S3
Have used Martin Logans and another B&W 603 S3 but settled on these.
For Jazz the open baffles with tube sound fab, but a bit under for rock, bass lacks a bit there.
Nice! thats serious stuff.

There are a couple of Serious Open baffle fans around in the forum like @yogibear who may be able to help out . My Guess would be it would do well with Low powered tubes ?
 
In my limited understanding I dont think so. A badly designed, badly routed / assmebled (wires etc.), low quality transformer may give hum at speaker output. At full volume (that is at maximum) you may get some hum/noise from any amplifier SS or tube.
Regards
Understand what you mean, but the hum exists even when not playing/static, just powered on and in the case of the amps used they were all with good quality components [ Hashimoto / Lundal transformers, silver wiring etc etc]
The hybrid tube amps didnt have hum , my guess is power supply is solid state thus...
 
Nice! thats serious stuff.

There are a couple of Serious Open baffle fans around in the forum like @yogibear who may be able to help out . My Guess would be it would do well with Low powered tubes ?
Yup, pretty much cruises with heavier wattage as wel [Eg: 20w 2A3], plus i bi amped and tried that round to check, My Altec Hfs sing on my Sansui vintage Model 220 (10wpc). Have tried various combos. There is something to Pure tube , no doubt, hope i can find a solution minus the hum for eg. It is a bit irritating to say the least
 
Nice! thats serious stuff.

There are a couple of Serious Open baffle fans around in the forum like @yogibear who may be able to help out . My Guess would be it would do well with Low powered tubes ?
Yogibear any brand suggestions / recommendations? Ideally would like to use with both high and mid(90db..ish)efficiency speakers, too much to ask for?
Demos are of course a near impossibility as and when we like especially in my city , might be bit better in Mumbai / Delhi
Someone recommended Prima Luna , i looked at Decware. It all sounds great on paper and specs , an actual feedback on music delivery few and far between
 
Understand what you mean, but the hum exists even when not playing/static, just powered on and in the case of the amps used they were all with good quality components [ Hashimoto / Lundal transformers, silver wiring etc etc]
The hybrid tube amps didnt have hum , my guess is power supply is solid state thus...
ahh. OK.
regards
 
If your tube amp (SE or PP) has slight hum on a 100dB speaker, that is when you put your ears close to the dustup, its perfectly fine. If its audible from a distance, in between the tracks, its a topology /design problem or components problem. (aged)

In my little experience, I have played with various tube amps and hum was not a problem. PP tube designs kind of cancel or mitigate 2nd order harmonics, where as decrease over all THD too and runs linear. SET tube amps have all the goodies of 2nd order harmonics and are generally low powered unless you are playing the exotic BIG high voltage tubes.

So far, my best experience has been running FR from tube amps, and bass active solid state fed from tube amps at speaker level input and crosses in lower mid bass region, yes both Open Baffle. Mere 1.5 watts per channel of tube power amp driver my FRs to pretty high SPL at mere 0.5-0.75 watts per channel. Its very important to have a clever choice of power / driver stage tubes and a good topology. The interstage topology with similar tubes both at power and driver stage is something very high end for some tube combos and is an expensive affair.

In case of hybrid, I don't really prefer it, if my objective is tube sound. However you can experiment to feed a Class A amp from a SE tube buffer or DHT / SE tube pre. But I would advise you not to go for a inbuilt tube hybrid amp as you lose the versatility of experimenting.

I just shared my own experiences so far and are not conclusive as I need to explore a lot further...... Many interesting things have happened and am little lazy to share here. Will do so sometime.

I have kind of resorted to either vintage or DIY stuff in tube amps. Have quite a few toys in my stable. EL84 PP, EL84 SE (sold), EL34 / 6L6 / 6V6 / KT88 / KT66 / 6F6 / 6BG6 SE, F2a SE, EL84 PPP (needs resurrection), EL34 PP williamson (needs resurrection), The 45 SE, and a new secret weapon, rare and one of its kind, takes 2A3 head-on in price and sonics......

For FRs, check new FR 12" from Beyma and another 10" FR from PRV. Beautiful drivers..... For bass duty I can suggest some as well if you wish. But these are high Qts drivers, mostly appropriate for OB or will need large boxes to sing well. OB bass can be ripole, PPSL or even H frame... Check LX521 speakers. Can be fun with smaller drivers for bass, 10" to 12" with a single, very capable FR at top, for a simple musical 2 way setup.

Vintage Sansui tube amps had great stuff under the hood. You must get the caps replaced and hum will be gone. The OPTs are special in Sansui.

Further, its a fallacy that OB setups are not good with hard rock or something similar. A well designed setup with good / sensible component support, will change your mind. It plays everything with great authority that you will not miss anything from boxed speakers.

Hi, appreciate the time & effort taken. Will try and respond accordingly , quite a pointer list for feeling lazy:).
>> The Sansui tube amp gives a hum - a very light hum(ear to driver) - but the others could be heard if your standing right in front, good observation there
>>Agreed that the pure tube does sound better, wanted to see if minus the hum was achievable within budget
>>I do beleive the interstage coupled amps drive better - haven't has first hand experience
>>You definitely are what the doc ordered in terms of experience and know how - clearly a considerable amount of tubes in your stable of experience - i have heard EL34/ 2A3 in SET &PP . havent heard the KT series or 300Bs . Have also tied a buffer from a friend
>> You are absolutely right about the Sansui(am a big fan, all my pre are Suis), my unit does need a recap restoration
>> I have been using the low power on my Altec HFs and higher power on my LFS(DUAL 16") - complete OB
>> The OBs do perform for bass but here n there i feel a bit short for rock especially - but agin as you rightfully pointed out i havent given the required support via a bass unit as im a little averse to sub.
>> " New secret weapon??" Do tell , secrets will be well kept as required :)
Regrds
 
I would say it depends on
1. Budget - is your budget <1L
2. Are your speakers less than 93dB sensitive?
3. Do you like your Music Loud?
If you answered Yes to any of the above, then feasibility of Tube is rather low
Hi , couldn't agree more , i always work backward from budget
Mine is flexible to , say a lil more, but the bigger challenge is experimenting Before buying. I did it the other way around first round years back and have decided to try and minimize older equip first , space always a constraint .
My speakers are split both ways , a not so efficient + a highly efficient ob
Music - what can i say, loud at times not at times:)
Also it would be nice to have an integrated with pre-out/s to power/monoblock it , wishes wishes !!!
 
I don’t like subs for music and am not using any and already sold my M&K subs. The OB bass drivers perform duty down from 140-120hz and fill room with plenty of bass till 40hz. They are run solid state though I am yet to experiment running them from PP tube amps. The setup runs loud to craziness and more I can play without making my neighbors fret !
Liking what i'm hearing- not a sub guy myself
though i used to parallel run the base driver of the B&W with the OB if the response was less with a particular recording and it used to kinda do the trick
 
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