Tube Preamp

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 & 12.2 Speakers
Decadent_Spectre said:
I'm looking for a tube preamp. I will try to post a clear picture so that people can make appropriate recommendations. Firstly I am very happy with my sound, I don't intend this to be an "improvement" or "upgrade", it is merely a curiosity. I fully expect to connect it, listen for 10 minutes and then put it into storage, I'm okay with that. My knowledge of tubes is non existent. So I will say that I am looking for the "standard bearer" of tube sound, preamp only, no amps. My preference for type of sound would be "warm,sweet,gooey", on the other side of the spectrum I do not want "snap,detail,clarity". This is for a regular speaker system, not for headphones. I do not wish to get into any debates about chain/equipment so please do not ask about it, I will not reply. Here is the list of my requirements -

1) Must have 2 XLR inputs and 2 XLR outputs.
2) Must have minimum 3V maximum output voltage, prefer 5-7V.
3) Must be available, with warranty, and serviceable in India.
4) Must cost 50,000 INR or less, all inclusive.
5) Must have quintessential tube sound.


If there are any other aspects to this that needs to be clarified then please do ask. I will not deviate from my requirements so please don't suggest preamps which may be good but do not meet all my requirements.

Thank you for your time.
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Hi Decadent_Spectre,

I am not sure if you will get all that in india . Furthermore, as you may have already experience/surmised the pre-power synergy is also very specific and get it wrong and you will have issues with the sound

'Tube Sound" itself is a misnomer and can mean several (Different) things to different people. While for some it may mean richer harmonics, for others it could mean rolled off bass and treble which gives sound a "Liquid Warmth" while to others it might be the extended attack and decay which gives continuity to music..although I personally am not sure if a Preamp can do that..a Phono/Dac does that better.

On the XLR, very few brands usually have them with tube ( eg Audio research but it is not a traditional tube sound) but would you be ok with a XLR to RCa convertor ? if so your options open up. I would suggest the best option might be Lyrita DHT Pre + XLR to RCA convertor ( maybe Viren can build that into the chassis)

Another option is to introduce a tube buffer before your Amp eg This from Acoustic Portrait might help, be in your budget but will still need Xlr/RCA convertors

Not sure of this helps.
 
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For your intent, I suggest that you save the money you intend spending on a preamp and go this route: if you play digital music via a PC, and if your media player supports it, get a free/paid tube emulation VST plugin for your media player and experience the tube sound.
 
The Lyrita has been suggested multiple times, I will take a closer look at it.

arj, I appreciate your reply and I do understand what your trying to say. Lacking knowledge on tubes and with limited experience with them, that too from years ago, I did mention that I was looking for "typical" tube sound, whatever that is. While I would prefer to not use converters, if I do not see any satisfying choice I may take up your advice. Do you feel the Freya is not suited for my needs?

keith, I have actually tried a plugin, I don't remember which one though.
 
Thank you arj. I had one more query about your post, when you mentioned attack and decay, do you mean the tube pre/dac etc is altering the phase? Or something else?
 
Decadent_Spectre said:
Thank you arj. I had one more query about your post, when you mentioned attack and decay, do you mean the tube pre/dac etc is altering the phase? Or something else?
Click to expand...
I believe its to do with harmonics. What I meant is the time it takes for a note to go from Peak to silence ( technically its called Decay+ Release) my understanding is a lot of this come from the envelope of sound created due to the fundamental note and its harmonics / sub-harmonics and the source has to pick it ans the subsequent electronics needs to retain it !

Again dont want to be pulled into a tube Vs SS debate :) there are many SS equipment which do it...my Dac is fully SS and does timbre and decay like nothing hence not changed even after 12+ years !

FM Prem taught me a nugget..in every pice of music there is always a continuity ie no holes in the music and if decay is not reproduced effectively you will have these points of silence. Eg the attack and decay of a triangle in many of Rehmans music is an example ie only after the decay will the next note begin and there is no gap between them.
 
Interesting. Sounds like it might be altering the impulse response and/or group delay.

I looked into both the Schiit and the Lyrita, with the Schiit the distributors mentioned that they have not had stock for months and that there is no timeline for when they will have products in stock and hence could not tell me when they will have the Freya. I guess if I want the Schiit then I need to get it from the US. From Lyrita Audio, they mentioned they were following the thread and that they see no point in it since I probably won't keep their preamp in my system, so that isn't an option. I will keep looking, if all else fails there's always the Freya :)

Got the Schiit. Time to experiment with Tube DACs. Open to recommendations.

Budget - 5-6L. Landed cost. Hard limit 6L.

Requirements - As tubey,warm and "slow" as possible. Don't want accurate, have that. Distortion, of any form welcome as long as it's not objectionable subjectively. Don't care about measurements. Must have AES/EBU input and XLR output.

Any and all suggestions welcome. Does not have to cost 6L, I don't believe more expensive is better.

Primary Goal - Warmer,smoother and slower sound.
 
From what I know a tubed dac is actually one only because of the output stage. I would hazard a guess that you may not find any great advantage of this over any other SS dac especially since you already have a Tube Preamp.

The differences in DACs will be more due to the topology . While I personally prefer source equipment to be "claimed" as neutral than warm most R2R Dacs should fall into this category But if you are still looking for one, I remember Audio Aero used to make some pretty good ones many years back, Total Dac does seem to have one with a tube output and with a R2R topology but that may be well over your budget.

If I were to buy blind I would go for the AMR 777..which at around 5K might meet your budget.
 
Hi arj, if tube DACs are not the answer what would you suggest? I have written what I am looking for. Mostly slower sound. My pro chain makes the sound very "accurate" but I am seeking warmth and a slower sound, what would you recommend instead of the tube dac? My understanding is I may need some form of phase/time distortion here. I have DSP which I tune and am curious how I can improve the slowness.

I will look into your suggestions.
 
Decadent_Spectre said:
Got the Schiit. Time to experiment with Tube DACs. Open to recommendations.

Budget - 5-6L. Landed cost. Hard limit 6L.

Requirements - As tubey,warm and "slow" as possible. Don't want accurate, have that. Distortion, of any form welcome as long as it's not objectionable subjectively. Don't care about measurements. Must have AES/EBU input and XLR output.

Any and all suggestions welcome. Does not have to cost 6L, I don't believe more expensive is better.

Primary Goal - Warmer,smoother and slower sound.
Click to expand...
Get a preowned Accustic Arts Tube DAC .
Available on eBay within your budget including shipping and customs.
I have this tube DAC.
 
Decadent_Spectre said:
Got the Schiit. Time to experiment with Tube DACs. Open to recommendations.

Budget - 5-6L. Landed cost. Hard limit 6L.

Requirements - As tubey,warm and "slow" as possible. Don't want accurate, have that. Distortion, of any form welcome as long as it's not objectionable subjectively. Don't care about measurements. Must have AES/EBU input and XLR output.

Any and all suggestions welcome. Does not have to cost 6L, I don't believe more expensive is better.

Primary Goal - Warmer,smoother and slower sound.
Click to expand...

I have only tried Cayin iDAC6 which was nice , but the tube output stage was nothing to write home about.

Get in touch with Goldfinch acoustics, there have been an influx of Lampzigator dacs with tube output stage and probably cost you in the range you have mentioned. 2/3 people I know have recently purchased and are quiet happy with the sound.
 
arj said:
From what I know a tubed dac is actually one only because of the output stage. I would hazard a guess that you may not find any great advantage of this over any other SS dac especially since you already have a Tube Preamp.

The differences in DACs will be more due to the topology . While I personally prefer source equipment to be "claimed" as neutral than warm most R2R Dacs should fall into this category But if you are still looking for one, I remember Audio Aero used to make some pretty good ones many years back, Total Dac does seem to have one with a tube output and with a R2R topology but that may be well over your budget.

If I were to buy blind I would go for the AMR 777..which at around 5K might meet your budget.
Click to expand...

I was not able to find the products you mentioned, could you link to them? Thanks.

fLUX said:
I have only tried Cayin iDAC6 which was nice , but the tube output stage was nothing to write home about.

Get in touch with Goldfinch acoustics, there have been an influx of Lampzigator dacs with tube output stage and probably cost you in the range you have mentioned. 2/3 people I know have recently purchased and are quiet happy with the sound.
Click to expand...

Is Goldfinch the Indian distributor for Lampizator? I have seen them being recommended elsewhere.

By the by, are you the same fLUX from TE?
 
Decadent_Spectre said:
I was not able to find the products you mentioned, could you link to them? Thanks.



Is Goldfinch the Indian distributor for Lampizator? I have seen them being recommended elsewhere.

By the by, are you the same fLUX from TE?
Click to expand...

Yup, same flux from TE.

I believe Goldfinch are the official distributors, recently few units were imported and I know of 3 people who got it. They are primarily into headphones and their initial impressions have been quiet positive
 
fLUX said:
Yup, same flux from TE.

I believe Goldfinch are the official distributors, recently few units were imported and I know of 3 people who got it. They are primarily into headphones and their initial impressions have been quiet positive
Click to expand...
Headphones? Are these headphone DACs? I was looking to use them with speakers.

I would be interested to know if they would characterize the sound as slow or not?

I thought I hould clarify a little on "slowness". On an accurate system voice, guitars dont stretch or linger as they should, it is a very fast "envelope" the speed/attack is good but at the cost of tone,smoothness and warmth. At least that is how it seems to me.
 
Decadent_Spectre said:
Headphones? Are these headphone DACs? I was looking to use them with speakers.

I would be interested to know if they would characterize the sound as slow or not?
Click to expand...
There is nothing specifically like a headphone dac when it comes to powered desktop grade DACs. I meant the impressions provided were on the basis of using them with their headphone setups. Everyone has used the typical term everyone uses with tubes , euphonic. You can look further for online reviews, since they arrived a week back no one has actually yet written any specific impressions.
 
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