Upgrade to 5.1 HT - within 2.5 lakhs

[Acuity]

You have a good sized room and a good Amp and more importantly a good budget . Don't limit yourself to book shelves solely because your listening volumes are low. Even I was thinking on the same lines initially - however changed and went ahead to purchase Floor Standers based on inputs from this forum. Good Floor Standers are much more detailed even at low volumes. Yes book shelves are a better option compared to FS at the same price point. Also ensure that all the front three speakers are from the same series.

Marantzs are are supposed to be more musical compared to Yamahas and Denons. I got my Yamaha AVR from US as checked in baggage. No problems. Retain the original packing and place it in another suitcase with plenty of clothes around.

Hello jagdish_p, thanks for the suggestions, I am now considering good FS too after your post. I just saw your signature and yours looks like a fabulous setup. Do you know if any stores in Hyd or Blr carry the Tannoy dc6t se where I can audition them?

And how are you connecting your Yamaha AVR and also the Arcam Amp to one set of FS Speakers? Does this affect your YPAO optimization?

Do you feel your FS Speakers would sound better with a bigger amp, or is your Arcam amp sufficient?

Thanks.

 

[Santy]

^^

the pre area of NAD vs 600 usd stand alone pre-pro...

it is difficult to decide who is the winner..even i am very much interested to know that

Could be yes, but which NAD AVR you are comparing to? I guess there are quite a few. Some of the mid to high range AVRs can be better than this entry level prepro but then, there are top of the line pre-pros as well, which can give tough fight to pre-outs of all expensive AVRs you may point your finger at. Even the top of the line NAD AVR (T787) dosen't have balanced audio outputs- which clearly says they put more money in other areas (features/ DAC/ DSP/ connectivity/ video processing/ room calibration, power amp section etc) than the pre-out section. Well I am not saying unbalanced audio cannot have good audio quality, but just that those AVRs are not really meant to be used that way, by keeping the power amp unused in which lot of cost and technology has gone into. If we look at it, some of the exotic audio brands have no AVRs in their lineup but they have separates made especially pre-pros.

One big advantage of pre/ power combo is upgradability. One can replace the power amp with a more powerful amp anytime or upgrade only prepro to an advanced one. I have an UMC-200 and at some point of time, am going to definitely look at XMC-1 as an upgrade.

 

[Santy]

Thanks guys, I am quite open to a pre-pro receiver with an Amp, and I'm ok with increasing the budget if it gives better SQ.

After researching NAD and Emotiva models, now I am totally confused on which pre-pro and Amp combination to consider. ?:sad:? Is Emotiva available in India?

Unfortunately both NAD and Emotiva Pre-pro receivers are low on features. How about using the Marantz SR5007 or SR5006 as a pre-pro, it has rich features which I can surely use.

Is it possible to audition pre-pro and amp combinations in Hyd or Blr?

Thanks

What features are you looking for? I am asking because NAD 187 probably has all the features you might need but is quite very expensive. If you are not keen on Audyssey and connectivity, Emo umc + Emo / Sherbourn power amp options suggested earlier is a good place to start your HT journey with, with the kind of budget you have. They can be imported or carried by your friend coming from US (power amp is very heavy though).

Marantz AV7005 a fantastic pre-pro used to be available at many local dealers, but not easily seen now I guess (phased out). If you are lucky you may be able to audition the new Marantz AV7701 prepro (~be Rs. 1.6 lakh) with Marantz MM7055 (80k) but I guess its too expensive.

 

[anm]

For appletv to stream dnla see firecore. It is a custom framework that adds features to an appletv

 

[jagdish_p]

Hello jagdish_p, thanks for the suggestions, I am now considering good FS too after your post. I just saw your signature and yours looks like a fabulous setup. Do you know if any stores in Hyd or Blr carry the Tannoy dc6t se where I can audition them?

And how are you connecting your Yamaha AVR and also the Arcam Amp to one set of FS Speakers? Does this affect your YPAO optimization?

Do you feel your FS Speakers would sound better with a bigger amp, or is your Arcam amp sufficient?

Thanks.

I got mine from Music Ranch, Bangalore. ( Not sure about availability for audition)

Music Ranch

Contact Mukesh : 080 4165 4163

Regarding YPAO. The preouts from Yamaha are connected to AV in of the Arcam Amp. You need to keep the Amp gain ( Volume setting) a constant and same as when the Ypao optimization has been done. Fortunately Arcam has way to keep the gain a constant for this connection. Extract from Arcam manual:-

Processor mode enables you to fix the gain (volume setting) of your A28. The A28 (in combination with a power amp.) can then be used to drive the front left and right speakers of a surround-sound system, when fed from a separate processor. The volume of the entire system can then be controlled using the processor. Feed the sound from the processor into the AV input, then set the gain of the A28 to match the amplifiers that drive your other loudspeakers

If the Amp does not have the above setting you will have to manually ensure that the Volume setting of the Amp is same as when Ypao calibration was done.

Regarding the Power of the Amp

I use it in two modes ( My room size is 21'X18')

a) Stereo mode where the Player is directly connected to the Amp. (AVR is switched off). My normal Volume setting is 30 ( Max possible 72). I do not cross 45.

b) In the 5.1 HT mode - I have calibrated with YPAO by fixing the Amp Volume gain at 55. This high setting is not due to an underpowered Amp but a low preout - Line signal level from Yamaha AVR.

 

[Acuity]

What features are you looking for? I am asking because NAD 187 probably has all the features you might need but is quite very expensive. If you are not keen on Audyssey and connectivity, Emo umc + Emo / Sherbourn power amp options suggested earlier is a good place to start your HT journey with, with the kind of budget you have. They can be imported or carried by your friend coming from US (power amp is very heavy though).

Marantz AV7005 a fantastic pre-pro used to be available at many local dealers, but not easily seen now I guess (phased out). If you are lucky you may be able to audition the new Marantz AV7701 prepro (~be Rs. 1.6 lakh) with Marantz MM7055 (80k) but I guess its too expensive.

Hi Santy, in my overall system the features I am looking for include:

dlna (Video, Flac & MP3 playback),
airplay,
3d passthrough,
ARC,
Audyssey or equivalent,
dolby, DTS,
standby hdmi passthrough.

Internet Radio, 4K passthrough and service support in India will be an added plus. So, I guess am looking at a feature rich system. Hopefully cover all the above for 1 - 1.5 Lakhs I suppose.

Video streaming can be handled by my smart tv, and I can buy an Appletv for airplay.

1. What are your thoughts on Yamaha Aventage AVR Vs Marantz AVR Vs Nad T757?

2. Can I assume if I can acquire an Emotiva UMC pre-pro and Amp, that would be better than any of the 3 items listed above?

You are right the Marantz prepro and Amp combination does seem expensive.
3. Any thoughts of using the Marantz SR5007 as a prepro? And if I can consider it, what Amp would be good with that?

Thanks.

And thanks jagdish_p for the contact details, and setup info.

 

[Acuity]

Audio Gurus: your inputs would be greatly appreciated. There are very limited demo options in Hyd / Blr

1. What are your thoughts on Yamaha Aventage AVR Vs Marantz AVR Vs Nad T757?

2. Can I assume if I can acquire an Emotiva UMC pre-pro and Amp, that would be better than any of the 3 items listed above?

3. Any thoughts of using the Marantz SR5007 as a prepro? And if I can consider it, what Amp would be good with that?

 

[Santy]

The AVRs mentioned deliver a refined sound and have quite a lot of features- they can keep you satisfied for a long time. All three are good for music. All have good DAC and deliver crisp audio. NAD outputs only 60W per channel, by no means it can be termed as under- powered. It can give enough punch. When it comes to price vs performance, I think the Yamaha and Marantz have an edge here. The NAD has a basic Audessey and no video processing. Marantz has advanced Multi EQ XT and Yamaha has what they call as R.S.C calibration.

It is strongly suggested to audition all that you have shortlisted before you take a decision, because individual preferences vary a lot (for instance, some don't like NAD's sound signature). You could also buy speakers first and then ask for home demo of all three.

Whether it is better than separates depends on many factors including the quality of speakers you will use them with, room size, how big you want the sound to be etc.

The XPA-5 has 200W sheer power per channel and it can slam you on your seat. The soundstage will be humongous and it has loads of reserve power for the most demanding scenes at high volumes too. This will be more evident when you use more powerful speakers. Importing this monster can be expensive though. The preprocessor has limited features and average room calibration but it can be always upgraded. If you can get the new Emo XMC-1 (pre booking) along with XPA-5 there is simply no competition with any AVRs you mentioned or even their big brothers.

Using AVR's preout is not a great idea though the Marantz have good quality preouts. For now, I think you can settle with any of the three AVRs (my vote for Marantz). Cost wise also they fit in your budget. Later, after two years or so, you can upgrade to separates.

 

[prosenjit]

one thing is for sure..even you can see it in demo..
separate dedicated amp sound is totally diffrent(better)..than avr alone..

but it is highly personal(if demo possible)..which pre section will u like maratzn,nad or yamaha..or emo prepro..
on a side note it is also true....if not lisntned side by side or one after another...you will like all after a blind buy(if not too bright)...at least to me non audiophile
imo emo prepro and emo power amp is just worth it...unquestionable

avr now has a benefit..right now you dony have to spend for a power amp..you can always buy it at later stage..

see how much combination demo is possible which is a problem i think for these audio products..

btw acuty why on earth do you need ARC ...all of these products already have multiple hdmi inputs

 

[Acuity]

Thanks guys, your inputs help greatly. I am likely to put together my system without proper auditioning, so the guidance is great.

@Prosenjit, I am looking for ARC when I play content directly from the TV. There is not a single receiver we have discussed that can stream video over dlna, so I may have to use the TV to do that bit. I hope the ARC would work in this situation.

 

[prosenjit]

well...tv onboard chip is not a good choice and justified..especially when you are buying 2.5 lakh ht set up..it is an insult to them..

whats wrong with a wired hi end media player..worth it..

btw not a problem though..arc is also there even in the cheapest avrs these days

 

[jagdish_p]

Do not choose an AVR for only for streaming/ DLNA capabilities.
You can always add a media player for that.
Even a wireless media player can be considered for streaming and it does not cost much.

 

[Acuity]

NAD and Speaker positioning

Hi guys, an update:

I had the chance to audition Yamaha's aventage 1020, Pioneer's LX56 and NAD's T777 and T748 during an overseas visit. (Finally hyeah

The Yamahas were connected to Yamaha speakers, Pio to Pio speakers and NAD to PSB speakers and a Velodyne sub.

The Nad T777's performance with the PSBs was definitely superior, head and shoulders above the rest. The T777 produced sound that was very clear, "Tight" and musical. It sounded great for movies and also music. It was also significantly better than the Nad T748. The T748 in comparison sounded a bit sharp and less musical to my ears, but then I think the T748 was still a bit better than the Yamaha Aventage and the Pio LX56.

The 3 brands of receivers were all demoed in different stores, and so the speakers, acoustics, room size and the source were all different. So it may not be a totally fair comparison, but the point is I was happy to hear what the Nad was capable of.

I think I will finalize on the NAD and buy it in India. But I am wondering if I should go for the T757 ($1000 in US) rather than the T777 ($3000 in US).

1) Would it be a safe assumption that the T757 will maintain the same sound signature as the T777?

Coming to the speakers:

I am considering using FS speakers, but my HT room has a wide TV Cabinet and this pushes the speakers to the corner walls. Please see this pic.

There is just 18" space on either side of the cabinet and I think enough room to angle the speakers inwards as required.

2) Is it OK to position FS speakers so close to the side walls. (I can move them forward away from the rear wall). Or is it better to leave some gap say 2-3 feet betw the speakers and the side-walls? In which case I may not be able to use FS speakers.

Thank you.

 

[shanmune]

Re: NAD and Speaker positioning

Hi guys, an update:

I had the chance to audition Yamaha's aventage 1020, Pioneer's LX56 and NAD's T777 and T748 during an overseas visit. (Finally hyeah

The Yamahas were connected to Yamaha speakers, Pio to Pio speakers and NAD to PSB speakers and a Velodyne sub.

The Nad T777's performance with the PSBs was definitely superior, head and shoulders above the rest. The T777 produced sound that was very clear, "Tight" and musical. It sounded great for movies and also music. It was also significantly better than the Nad T748. The T748 in comparison sounded a bit sharp and less musical to my ears, but then I think the T748 was still a bit better than the Yamaha Aventage and the Pio LX56.

The 3 brands of receivers were all demoed in different stores, and so the speakers, acoustics, room size and the source were all different. So it may not be a totally fair comparison, but the point is I was happy to hear what the Nad was capable of.

I think I will finalize on the NAD and buy it in India. But I am wondering if I should go for the T757 ($1000 in US) rather than the T777 ($3000 in US).

1) Would it be a safe assumption that the T757 will maintain the same sound signature as the T777?

Coming to the speakers:

I am considering using FS speakers, but my HT room has a wide TV Cabinet and this pushes the speakers to the corner walls. Please see this pic.

There is just 18" space on either side of the cabinet and I think enough room to angle the speakers inwards as required.

2) Is it OK to position FS speakers so close to the side walls. (I can move them forward away from the rear wall). Or is it better to leave some gap say 2-3 feet betw the speakers and the side-walls? In which case I may not be able to use FS speakers.

Thank you.

What I heard from other forums on T757 vs T777 is that as long as you don't connect power hungry or big tower speakers and at moderate volume levels, T757 performs more or less same as T777.

During last weekend, I had an opportunity of comparing RX-V671 and NAD T757 side-by-side with the same set of speakers (PSB Image B6 and Center C5). The experiment was purely for my own learning/experience. RX-V671 is rated at 90 wpc and T757 rated at 110 wpc (all are FTC based ratings). This may not be a right comparison, but I just did it for my own learning.
For music, RX-V671 was slightly brighter and T757 was sort of either warm or neutral. I must confess that I played the CD with the Sony BD player and the music tracks were of melody type with little or no emphasis on bass.
The second one was about running Sherlock holmes "game of shadows" movie. I have watched that movie on more than 10 times just to audition different TV sets at my friends/relatives house. Also, I am very impressed with the back ground score. In that movie, there are few sound tracks (music) which involves some good bass and the sound track played at the end credits. Though I couldn't find much difference in most of scenes, I saw some noticeable difference in bass in few scenes. Please note that I didn't connect any subwoofer. With T757, the bass was slightly more accurate and tight rather than sounding muddy. It was when I ran the Avatar movie from a blu-ray disc (the first 15 mins), I found T757 to be ahead of RX-V671. T757 produced sound which had more weight behind it and the punch was there when compared to RX-V671.

All the above comparisons may not be ideal, but it was done more out of my own curiosity. As I said, I never had a good audio source for stereo listening and never had the subwoofer. So things may vary with those combinations.

 

[Kittu]

Considering the price difference if one were to buy a NAD ,One should consider going the pre-power route. The NAD , CA receiver prices are slightly more than what you actually get out of them.

 

[Acuity]

The NAD , CA receiver prices are slightly more than what you actually get out of them.

Kindly explain the above.

I am interested in the pre-power route even if I have to spend a bit more, just don't know which components and brands, how to audition it, and serviceability. Please suggest a solution.

 

[prosenjit]

imho you can safely get a nad now and add power amp 2 years later..
nad will drive normal(not too power hungry)..speakers fine..
and with nad you dont have to choose from a vast range of speakers..
nad-psb is tried tested proven combo..so you can confindently go with nad..

 

[Acuity]

Thanks. Any suggestion regarding the speaker positioning as described in my above post? Ie. can I place FS speakers very close to the side walls?

 

[soulforged]

why you no anthem thinking???

You may want to add Anthem to your list of AVRs to consider...

I have Marantz and I can vouch for the SQ. Very sophesticated though I find it a tad underpowered...I have owned Yamaha in the past and it astounded me with its musicality. If you place SQ high on your list and will listen to music in equal measures, I would suggest you go with Anthem, NAD, Marantz or Yamaha. Look for the essential features like HD Audio decoding, 3D, Upscaling/upconverting etc. You really don't wanna spend on the bells and whistles. Dedicated devices can be added for these...

NAD and PSB are a great combination, I seriously recommend them. Like someone suggested a few posts back, look at good Fronts and Center from the same stable and a good Sub. You can add the surrounds later...

BTW...can someone tell if Arcam or Sunfire would fall into the OP's budget range???

 

[shanmune]

why you no anthem thinking???

You may want to add Anthem to your list of AVRs to consider...

I have Marantz and I can vouch for the SQ. Very sophesticated though I find it a tad underpowered...I have owned Yamaha in the past and it astounded me with its musicality. If you place SQ high on your list and will listen to music in equal measures, I would suggest you go with Anthem, NAD, Marantz or Yamaha. Look for the essential features like HD Audio decoding, 3D, Upscaling/upconverting etc. You really don't wanna spend on the bells and whistles. Dedicated devices can be added for these...

NAD and PSB are a great combination, I seriously recommend them. Like someone suggested a few posts back, look at good Fronts and Center from the same stable and a good Sub. You can add the surrounds later...

BTW...can someone tell if Arcam or Sunfire would fall into the OP's budget range???

Arcam AVR400 should be between $2000 to $2400. Heard good reviews about it. Anthem seems to have the best room correction software ...
I may be wrong, but I found Yamaha sound (for music) to be brighter and too detailed for stereo listening ... The detailed sound of Yamaha works or fits superbly for movies. After all, they are the pioneers of DSP.
One thing OP shouldn't miss .. That is, getting a top class subwoofer (like PB12-NSD) which would cost around 65k.