Upgrading amp after 10 years :)

corElement

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I'm upgrading from a Cambridge audio Azur 840a v2 (Superb) to a higher end dedicated amp for regular music and another dedicated amp better for old Indian music.

Here is the old faithful. A Superb underrated amp.
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So after much research against my requirements, for the first amp, I got the *drumroll*




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The Naim Supernait 3!!

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My wallet is currently crying. However initial hearing impressions are in line with what I expected it to be. Substantially denser sound.
 
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Congratulations! Great choice.
Very well regarded all around with numerous positive reviews.

Naim makes some fantastic gear - well known for their PRaT.


.
Thank you! There are some music sequences the sn3 really shine in, everytime anything with drums and rapid fire music comes on it sounds very realistic. My family members heard from other rooms and came to hear going wow at how realistic hindi folk songs with dhols sounded. Vocal nuances are also well presented. I can make out the vocal extensions where the singer is finishing lyrics with some shaking in the voice. You can make out that they optimized this amp for performance music, where prat is actually more important and conventional amps fail. I was listening to swan lake and I could hear tiny tiny things the orchestral players were doing and the urgency of certain instruments. It felt as if they were on a stage infront. This sort of imaging is not there on the ca840av2 which is a more neutral and spectrum oriented amplification. But given the price difference, where the 840av2 was 75,000 INR 10 years ago (would be double today) and this is 5.3L today the ca 840aV2 is no slouch, as long as the 840a is paired with 90db efficient speakers where the volume is kept around 50% where it's class A function ends, the ca840av2 gives stiff competition to the naim. But if you push the 840 to 65% and above where it functions as class ab, there the ca840 shows its limitations. It loses definition the higher you go. But the naim SN3 on my jamo Concert 8s barely need to be raised from 6 o clock starting position to 8 o clock. 3 o clock is max and 9 o clock position makes my bookshelves hit like big floorstanders. This is not even 50%, it's just 35%. And it doesn't lose its definition as you keep raising the volume to unbearable levels. That's the biggest change.

The caveat of this amp being optimized for performance music and prat is that it's high frequencies are somewhat rolled off. So recordings where extreme hf samples are used, it is handled like an afterthought. This is where brands like luxman and accuphase excel. I heard a luxman 505, 550, 590 and sn3 side by side in Vegas in 2022 and I found all the naim amps handle sound in a different way where dynamic changes in impedance are very apparent giving music a certain life like character. The luxman 505 in comparison felt clinical and thin while the 590ax sounded amazing, with a warm romantic tonality similar to tubes, if it wasn't even more expensive I would have gone for the 590ax, but compared to the naim house sound the 590 felt like a beautiful technical demonstration of checking all the boxes. The performative impact of music is not there, even a 3k naim atom had more prat than the luxman 550 but without all the details and frequency control.

One has to hear it side by side to understand the impact prat has. It's literally the fun aspect of music. And it has a really strange way of drawing the listener in even with more transparent and better sound quality producing and better built competitors in the lineup. I suppose it appeals to the reptilian parts of our brains. Who knows.

One thing I don't like about the sn3 is that is doesn't like poor source material. So a lot of the old hindi music sounds 2 dimensional.
 
Thank you! There are some music sequences the sn3 really shine in, everytime anything with drums and rapid fire music comes on it sounds very realistic. My family members heard from other rooms and came to hear going wow at how realistic hindi folk songs with dhols sounded. Vocal nuances are also well presented. I can make out the vocal extensions where the singer is finishing lyrics with some shaking in the voice. You can make out that they optimized this amp for performance music, where prat is actually more important and conventional amps fail. I was listening to swan lake and I could hear tiny tiny things the orchestral players were doing and the urgency of certain instruments. It felt as if they were on a stage infront. This sort of imaging is not there on the ca840av2 which is a more neutral and spectrum oriented amplification. But given the price difference, where the 840av2 was 75,000 INR 10 years ago (would be double today) and this is 5.3L today the ca 840aV2 is no slouch, as long as the 840a is paired with 90db efficient speakers where the volume is kept around 50% where it's class A function ends, the ca840av2 gives stiff competition to the naim. But if you push the 840 to 65% and above where it functions as class ab, there the ca840 shows its limitations. It loses definition the higher you go. But the naim SN3 on my jamo Concert 8s barely need to be raised from 6 o clock starting position to 8 o clock. 3 o clock is max and 9 o clock position makes my bookshelves hit like big floorstanders. This is not even 50%, it's just 35%. And it doesn't lose its definition as you keep raising the volume to unbearable levels. That's the biggest change.

The caveat of this amp being optimized for performance music and prat is that it's high frequencies are somewhat rolled off. So recordings where extreme hf samples are used, it is handled like an afterthought. This is where brands like luxman and accuphase excel. I heard a luxman 505, 550, 590 and sn3 side by side in Vegas in 2022 and I found all the naim amps handle sound in a different way where dynamic changes in impedance are very apparent giving music a certain life like character. The luxman 505 in comparison felt clinical and thin while the 590ax sounded amazing, with a warm romantic tonality similar to tubes, if it wasn't even more expensive I would have gone for the 590ax, but compared to the naim house sound the 590 felt like a beautiful technical demonstration of checking all the boxes. The performative impact of music is not there, even a 3k naim atom had more prat than the luxman 550 but without all the details and frequency control.

One has to hear it side by side to understand the impact prat has. It's literally the fun aspect of music. And it has a really strange way of drawing the listener in even with more transparent and better sound quality producing and better built competitors in the lineup. I suppose it appeals to the reptilian parts of our brains. Who knows.

One thing I don't like about the sn3 is that is doesn't like poor source material. So a lot of the old hindi music sounds 2 dimensional.
Such a clear comparative description of the amps. It’ll add to the understanding of those aspiring for these brands/models.

So what are you considering of the other part of your music listening (Indian music)? If you mean Indian classical, I’d be interested in reading about your search.
 
One thing I don't like about the sn3 is that is doesn't like poor source material. So a lot of the old hindi music sounds 2 dimensional.

COngratulations on a really good amp. naim is one of those which somehow still draw you to music in a special way. Whats the Source you are using ? Old hindi recordings are usually pretty bad on CDs especially on indian pressings.
 
Thank you! There are some music sequences the sn3 really shine in, everytime anything with drums and rapid fire music comes on it sounds very realistic. My family members heard from other rooms and came to hear going wow at how realistic hindi folk songs with dhols sounded. Vocal nuances are also well presented. I can make out the vocal extensions where the singer is finishing lyrics with some shaking in the voice. You can make out that they optimized this amp for performance music, where prat is actually more important and conventional amps fail. I was listening to swan lake and I could hear tiny tiny things the orchestral players were doing and the urgency of certain instruments. It felt as if they were on a stage infront. This sort of imaging is not there on the ca840av2 which is a more neutral and spectrum oriented amplification. But given the price difference, where the 840av2 was 75,000 INR 10 years ago (would be double today) and this is 5.3L today the ca 840aV2 is no slouch, as long as the 840a is paired with 90db efficient speakers where the volume is kept around 50% where it's class A function ends, the ca840av2 gives stiff competition to the naim. But if you push the 840 to 65% and above where it functions as class ab, there the ca840 shows its limitations. It loses definition the higher you go. But the naim SN3 on my jamo Concert 8s barely need to be raised from 6 o clock starting position to 8 o clock. 3 o clock is max and 9 o clock position makes my bookshelves hit like big floorstanders. This is not even 50%, it's just 35%. And it doesn't lose its definition as you keep raising the volume to unbearable levels. That's the biggest change.

The caveat of this amp being optimized for performance music and prat is that it's high frequencies are somewhat rolled off. So recordings where extreme hf samples are used, it is handled like an afterthought. This is where brands like luxman and accuphase excel. I heard a luxman 505, 550, 590 and sn3 side by side in Vegas in 2022 and I found all the naim amps handle sound in a different way where dynamic changes in impedance are very apparent giving music a certain life like character. The luxman 505 in comparison felt clinical and thin while the 590ax sounded amazing, with a warm romantic tonality similar to tubes, if it wasn't even more expensive I would have gone for the 590ax, but compared to the naim house sound the 590 felt like a beautiful technical demonstration of checking all the boxes. The performative impact of music is not there, even a 3k naim atom had more prat than the luxman 550 but without all the details and frequency control.

One has to hear it side by side to understand the impact prat has. It's literally the fun aspect of music. And it has a really strange way of drawing the listener in even with more transparent and better sound quality producing and better built competitors in the lineup. I suppose it appeals to the reptilian parts of our brains. Who knows.

One thing I don't like about the sn3 is that is doesn't like poor source material. So a lot of the old hindi music sounds 2 dimensional.
Your comparison with Luxman 505 seems quite realistic to me as well. I have been using Luxman 507 ux for the last 6 years and find that sound quality is certainly silky smooth but lacks the grainy mid range.
Vocals are also rounded on edges.
Who is the Niam distributor in India and which speakers are you pairing to?
 
Such a clear comparative description of the amps. It’ll add to the understanding of those aspiring for these brands/models.

So what are you considering of the other part of your music listening (Indian music)? If you mean Indian classical, I’d be interested in reading about your search.
Most likely a tube amp with midrange bloom, perhaps a 2a3 amp.
 
Congratulations! Great choice.
Naim PRaT is what makes music more enjoyable, foot tapping and head nodes.

SuperNait 3 is what I am looking for to upgrade from Nait 5si.

Enjoy your music 🤟
which distributor are you planning on buying from

what speakers are you using sir?
A pair of the legendary Jamo Concert 8's from 1991 😎
 

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A pair of the legendary Jamo Concert 8's from 1991 😎

Legendary is right. Wonderful pair of speakers from a time when speakers were designed to be musical . your Earlier amp would be the one holding them back from more.
 
Legendary is right. Wonderful pair of speakers from a time when speakers were designed to be musical . your Earlier amp would be the one holding them back from more.
Correct. And I became very aware of it when I heard the concert 8s on a krell class A 400xi. The best sound I heard on the concerts were from lyrita audio 2a3 but only for a specific genre of music. The krell 400xi was excellent, if I had to compare krell 400xi to naim sn3 I would say that even though they are very different technologies, they are more similar in sound quality than different. The krell is very authoritative, not silky smooth like the luxman 590ax ii. Superior control over lower frequencies but midrange doesn't have the rounded nature of naim however high frequencies are superior than the naim. Vocals are superior on the naim as are most genres of music. The krell 400xi has a slightly hint of harshness with whereas the naim is a more rounded sound with rolled off highs.

I knew about the ca840s limitations for a whole decade but I was just starting off in my career so couldn't afford better..until now. 🤭
 
which distributor are you planning on buying from


A pair of the legendary Jamo Concert 8's from 1991 😎
Wow, that veneer finish!

The krell 400xi was excellent, if I had to compare krell 400xi to naim sn3 I would say that even though they are very different technologies, they are more similar in sound quality than different. The krell is very authoritative, not silky smooth like the luxman 590ax ii. Superior control over lower frequencies but midrange doesn't have the rounded nature of naim however high frequencies are superior than the naim. Vocals are superior on the naim as are most genres of music. The krell 400xi has a slightly hint of harshness with whereas the naim is a more rounded sound with rolled off highs.

The descriptions of sounds in your posts suggest that you have discerning ears.
 
Wow, that veneer finish!



The descriptions of sounds in your posts suggest that you have discerning ears.
it sounds as good as it looks. it's 30+ years old now but looks and works like new,

Thanks, Its great fun figuring out the nature of sound and things in general.

Nothing like getting done with work and sitting back to listen to some relaxing music.
 

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which distributor are you planning on buying from


A pair of the legendary Jamo Concert 8's from 1991 😎

Keep using them until the woofers fall off and then some. 👍. Jamo made sone good speakers then and even upto the end of the first decade(2010). Not sure what happened post the Klipsch takeover.
 
The Concert 8 was later introduced as the D830 if i recollect, somewhere around 2003
Heard them on about 10 occasions and not once they did fail to impress me.
Keep enjoying them.
 
I have the CA 840W from the same family of amps for last 5+ years and instead of changing amp further, I decided to add tube pre to spruce up the sound signature. After trying several Pre, settled for Anode Acoustic line pre with 12AU7s. Pairing is excellent. Sadly I broke my RCA cleartops due to mishandling and now using BEL / Philips interchangeably but searching for Long Plate Mullards.
 
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