Vandersteen Quatro finally through...

[murali]

Finally I got my Quatro (wood) from Vandersteen and got it working. It had been a great struggle getting them (120 kg) shipped from USA and going through all formalities. Though there were several hiccups and delays giving sleepless nights, Aramex did a reasonably good job.
As I published several weeks ago, my 2Ce Signature pair is now removed and if anyone is seriously intertested in this, please pm me. I will again go away the end of next week.
After the "running-in" period (100 hrs or more), I will post my observations of the Quatro.

Thanks and happy listening.
murali

 

[ajay124]

Murali

Congratulations and happy listening! Your passion for Vandersteen is amazing. The 2Ce Signature are very well regarded speakers. I hope they find a new home soon with someone who can appreciate their magic.

 

[issigonis]

>>>

Congratulations on the Vandersteens.
I will be following this thread to read your experience and feedback on the sound quality/musicality. I would also like to hear about your shipping-delivery-insurance experience, so that I can learn about possible pitfalls/areas of concern that one has to be careful about when importing sensitive equipment for personal use.

One of the dealers that I am talking with for my turntable, mentioned Vandersteen as a possible option for me; however I had more or less decided on the Omega by then.

Regards, groove safe

 

[murali]

Okay, some first impressions for those who may be interested.
First the eystem: Ayre C-5xe -> ARC Ref-3 -> Ayre V-5xe -> Quatro. CDP and preamp on Solid Tech rack, power amp on Taoc stand. AQ Sky IC from CDP to preamp and Cheetah to power amp. AQ Volcano double biwire speaker cable. POwer cords from VH Audio on Furutech and Oyaide plugs. The Quatro comes with balanced high pass filters and so L/R from preamp go to filters and from filters to power amp. Essentially it enables frequencies below 100 Hz go to built-in woofer with amp of the speakers and relieves the power amp to a great extent from the burden of LF. Purpose: better mid-range and higher clarity. Running-in period recommended = 100 hrs or more.
I threw in a few discs like Western classical, piano, acoustic guitar, jazz and a couple of Indian film music. My comparison is with the 2Ce which I have used for a little more than 5 years and alomst one year with the same set-up. I have never tried another speaker in my system, in fact never had an opportunity.
Okay, there is noticeable difference. The music sounds fuller and richer with deep bass augumenting the whole. It is as if you are in a treasure house and start seeing more and more items which were hidden. There is distinctive clarity and individualism among the various orchestral instruments. The soundstage has grown much bigger (my room is 19 X 10 ft, hence relatively narrow, with a L-extension at the listening end), deeper and wider. The most noticeable is the gaps between rows from front to back with a church choir sounding so realistic whereas earlier the front- to- back effect was there but without intermediate spaces. It is best illustrated in the simple and elegant Miles Davis' Kind of Blue when all instruments now suddenly sound very real and live. The mid-range clarity has certainly gone up but too early to say whether the increase is subtantial. The 2Ce is excellent there but a bit lean in bass and now the Quatro tries to round them off.
So first impressions are quite encouraging. However, whether it was worth spending 4 times the price from 2Ce to Quatro, I cannot say now but have to wait for a few months before coming with a true and honest answer. But I have never regretted so far in buying the Vandys and whatever I have heard (outside my system, of course) elsewhere never turned my attention.
More, hopefully after a few months.

cheers and thanks.
murali

 

[arj]

Congrats ! Great to hear this Murali...

 

[sameer kumar]

Congratulations!

 

[sarge_in]

Sounds good! Enjoyy!!

 

[shyam_5]

hey murali ,
i'm living in cochin and i'm interersted in the vandersteen 2ce signature speakers . please leave in contact details if u still have them with u and is looking forwards to selling them .

 

[arj]

Hey Murali, they must have Broken in now . Curious as to how do they sound ?

 

[murali]

It is difficult to say about the "run-in period". As I am "here and there", I have not been able to run them continuously over several weeks. Whatever I have listened to so far, the Quatro is a real leap over the 2Ce Signature I was using (with the two Rel subs, now with arj). Excellent bass, cleaner midrange and superb highs. Of course, other system changes like the ARC Ref3 preamp and Aesthetix Atlas stereo power amp also contribute. The most notable feature is the great soundstage, wider and deeper than the 2Ce, especially noticeable in depth when playing some real orchestral music like the music from the Gladiator when the last row of sound appears to be as away as my neighbouring house! The other observation is the air surrounding central vocal voices like playing solo singers giving a 3-dimensionality to the voice and the real feel of the sound emanating from the chest rather than throaty. Ideally, the Quatros are supposed to be set up by the dealer but there is none in India. The speaker settings are far from ideal as I have not used its equalisation settings to help room compensation which is generally done with a Vandersteen test disc and various experiments by moving them around. Each speaker weighs around 70 kg and I am not Schwarzenegger.
With home theater, I don't need to say anything extra. They sound great and with the new VCC-5 center speaker, it is another world of experience.
I still have the 2Ce Signature (in my next visit, I plan to add them to the HT setup to make it 7.1) as well as the older VCC-1 center, and am willing to look at offers (anyone can pm me with their best offer) as long as they are beyond ridicule. I often get offers based on used speakers from audiogon site but people tend to forget the fact the freight and duties I paid for them cost me more than the speakers, and hence I have no interest in audiogon and similar prices. I will sell them when I am convinced I am getting their value and not otherwise.

cheers.
murali

 

[ranjeetrain]

Agree with you, Murali. Resale value in India is ridiculous. No wonder high-end hi-fi is a dream in India.

I come across good deals on dream gear. But scared to spend time, money and effort on importing them and all. At the end of the day when you try to grow out of them, you are offered peanuts.

 

[murali]

Agree with you, Murali. Resale value in India is ridiculous. No wonder high-end hi-fi is a dream in India.

I come across good deals on dream gear. But scared to spend time, money and effort on importing them and all. At the end of the day when you try to grow out of them, you are offered peanuts.

When I decided to first get a pair of good speakers and eventually settled down to the Vandys, it was because of the retail prices in India which were US MRP plus freight, duties, taxes, margins etc. Directly buying from abroad was no loss as long as one is prepared to pay the freight and duties. In my case, the Customs even added up a penalty/fine as I am not a businessman with import license, so ended up paying more than 100% of the speaker value towards all other costs. For example, the 2Ce Signature price was around $1,500 when I bought it directly from Vandersteen's international dealer, and I ended up spending more than that towards freight, duties etc. With the then exchange rate of around 40, it was totally around Rs 1.3k. Now, when someone offers me Rs 30k, why I should sell? Somewhere around 50% of what I spent can make me consider.
The same reason I bought directly from Vandersteen USA the Quatros. How many people know of the pains and costs involved in getting such heavyweight stuff all the way from USA to our homes?
Another classical example is the Marantz AV7005 processor I am contemplating to buy. I can get it for around $1,300 (now it is replaced with AV7007) outside and even if I pay around 35% duties and carry it with me to India, it comes less than the best offer I so far got from local dealers in India (Rs 1.1L).
In my experience, getting stuff directly from abroad and bringing then legitimately is what I follow. Of course, it all depends on one's views and principles in life, taking shortcuts etc.
Last, when I spend my own hard-earned money on some stuff I want to enjoy, I don't believe in the 'desi' idea. It is a global marketplace now and noone stops.
Then there are people who never mind spending lavishly for changing cellphones every 6 months but keep on arguing on hifi stuff for saving Rs 1000 here and there. I am not in that category. I still use an old version cellphone, more than enough to send and receive calls and messages, and never feel like changing.

cheers.
murali

 

[sidvee]

Another classical example is the Marantz AV7005 processor I am contemplating to buy. I can get it for around $1,300 (now it is replaced with AV7007) outside and even if I pay around 35% duties and carry it with me to India, it comes less than the best offer I so far got from local dealers in India (Rs 1.1L).
murali

Murali, I agree with most of what you say, but unless the trip abroad is a paid trip (business), one has to add travel cost to the equipment price as well. So in your case if you consider $1300+ $455 for duties that is $1755 which is Rs 95k, so whatever your trip cost has to be added. Now it does not look like a good deal, and what about warranty, service etc. Don't get me wrong, I bring a lot of equipment the way you described, I recently bought my Lamm LL2.1 preamp. that way, but I have realized that if I buy something that is is approaching 7 figure sums, I rather have local dealer support, warranty etc., not to mention proper voltage etc. And that is the reasoning I used for my recent acquisition of the Symphonic line Kraft 250 and I plan to use the same reasoning for my new speaker acquisition. And finally - my biggest concern - the actual shipping - who pays for any damage? I know most international shipments will be insured, but trying to collect from Fedex or UPS is the biggest pain in the A$$.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[murali]

That is a chance one has to take. Expensive stuff, no doubt, are constructed to last "for ever" and unless something really goes wrong during packing, shipment etc, they land in your place in one piece. In my experience, the greatest danger is while your shipping agency opens up the whole package for Customs inspection inside India where nobody cares how they are handled or whether they are repacked properly. In one or two instances, some critical parts went missing when the equipment was delivered and I had to gt them again.
That is the most surprising part for me. Importing for personal use is not a criminal offence under Indian laws and I can't understand the attitude of Customs officials whenever they come across such personal imports. Rules are laid down about valuing them and slapping duties on them, and as long as an importer is prepared to accept and settle such things, what is this animosity? Is it because they lose their "commission" when done illegally? I also wonder whether there is some nexus among such officials and the so-called "authorised" dealers. Some years ago, I was looking at a Sony TV at my local dealer, found its price too high, and when I mentioned to hime that I could buy it from abroad cheaply, he openly threatened me that the Customs officials would contact him and bleed me when I land with the equipment!
I never travel to buy equipment from abroad, so don't have to add that expense. All high-end equipment I bought so far, Vandy speakers, VTL and ARC preamps, Ayre CDP and power amp, and Aesthetix power amp, were all bought and shipped through freight agencies. Aramex shop and ship (Ms Anuradha Iyer) was great help in getting the latest equipment at reasonable charges. At the same time, I don't overstep the line of ridicule. My latest center speaker, VCC-5, is huge and heavy and I have been looking at the special Sound Anchors stand meant for it. The stands costs me around $400 but the freight and duties quoted by Aramex comes out to around $800! So I keep quiet and put the speaker on a small stand locally made.
Back to selling good used equipment. My VTL 5.5 preamp cost me around $3,000 to get it at home after buying in USA, sending it to VTL factory to convert to 230 volt, and ship it. When someone offer me Rs10k for that, what do I do? So it justs sits in my cupboard. I got the Ayre V-5 from Europe (230 v), sent it Ayre works in USA to upgrade to their latest 'xe', and overall it cost me close to Rs2L. Someone is now interested to buy it at Rs50k. So I use it to drive my center and center-back speakers and do not lose anything. The point is, many of us buy things to enjoy and when we upgrade and consider disposing of the older ones, that does not mean they are useless. I invested in the Vandys, VTL and Ayre , enjoyed them for nearly 5 years and never intended to upgrade and sell them. But now that my "economic" position improved and I can pump out some money for better things, I went for upgrade. Does it render my ealier equipment useless and low-value items? I can still enjoy them provided I use them as a second system.

I am sorry, I have said enough, and time to retract. Thanks to all those who read them.

P.S. You don't need to be "friends" with me to consider buying my stuff or communicating with me for anything. Anyone interested can pm me.

cheers.
murali

 

[sidvee]

Importing for personal use is not a criminal offence under Indian laws and I can't understand the attitude of Customs officials whenever they come across such personal imports. Rules are laid down about valuing them and slapping duties on them, and as long as an importer is prepared to accept and settle such things, what is this animosity?

When I imported my Harbeth Shl5, I had first hand experience of how they functioned at the Hyderabad Air Cargo location - believe me it is an entirely different/demeaning/frustrating experience from the baggage carousel/customs experience at the airport. Good thing I had a C&F agent assisting me otherwise I might have paid 100% duty based on what the customs guy was demanding. So really rules are just a suggestion and not mandatory. They can demand what they want and the consumer has to cough up or else loose his shipment. Anyways sorry for the OT.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[abhijitnath]

When I decided to first get a pair of good speakers and eventually settled down to the Vandys, it was because of the retail prices in India which were US MRP plus freight, duties, taxes, margins etc. Directly buying from abroad was no loss as long as one is prepared to pay the freight and duties. In my case, the Customs even added up a penalty/fine as I am not a businessman with import license, so ended up paying more than 100% of the speaker value towards all other costs. For example, the 2Ce Signature price was around $1,500 when I bought it directly from Vandersteen's international dealer, and I ended up spending more than that towards freight, duties etc. With the then exchange rate of around 40, it was totally around Rs 1.3k. Now, when someone offers me Rs 30k, why I should sell? Somewhere around 50% of what I spent can make me consider.
The same reason I bought directly from Vandersteen USA the Quatros. How many people know of the pains and costs involved in getting such heavyweight stuff all the way from USA to our homes?
Another classical example is the Marantz AV7005 processor I am contemplating to buy. I can get it for around $1,300 (now it is replaced with AV7007) outside and even if I pay around 35% duties and carry it with me to India, it comes less than the best offer I so far got from local dealers in India (Rs 1.1L).
In my experience, getting stuff directly from abroad and bringing then legitimately is what I follow. Of course, it all depends on one's views and principles in life, taking shortcuts etc.
Last, when I spend my own hard-earned money on some stuff I want to enjoy, I don't believe in the 'desi' idea. It is a global marketplace now and noone stops.
Then there are people who never mind spending lavishly for changing cellphones every 6 months but keep on arguing on hifi stuff for saving Rs 1000 here and there. I am not in that category. I still use an old version cellphone, more than enough to send and receive calls and messages, and never feel like changing.

cheers.
murali

The Marantz 7005 is available for 63K in Mumbai BTW in case you're interested- this is the receiver, not the processor, but the XLR outs are not true balanced in any case, so not much lost.
I agree about the other stuff, of course.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Agree with most of what Murli and Sid have said.

When a prospect buyer approaches someone for an expensive gear which is not available in India, IMPO, the buyer should be thankful to the situation that something that has taken a lot of personal interest, time and effort to be imported is available in a pre-owned market. Instead of taking it as an opportunity to grab it for loose change, the approach should be of calculating the actual effort and money that has gone into bringing the stuff and evaluate the resale value accordingly. Unfortunately, that's not the case in India.

If you are in USA or Europe, you can try expensive gear, sell them back after you are done enjoying them. All for the cost of two way shipping and a bit of loss. In India, that seems to be more than half if you bought new abroad.

About saving the 1000 Rs here and there, let me tell you, many of them would calculate it down to 100 Rs. Exactly the reason now I say a plain no to anyone who requests me to bring anything from abroad on their behalf. To me more than the money, it is the disrespect for the fact you invest your time, effort and possibly money too, to bring their stuff and deliver to them. And when they want to pay you, they will calculate with 2 digits of precision of exchange rate :lol:

 

[arj]

Practically speaking the best way is to check the used audiogon/ebay price and factor in the additional shipping and customs cost. Thats perhaps the only way to objectively get a fair idea of the local price.
But the problem is that ,unfortunately, the market in india is rather small, not only in absolute number of audiophiles but even within that very few are part of forums.
I have been successful in selling cables on Audiogon in the past but Active equipment are a different deal altogether.

Murali, Great to hear about the performance of the new setup

 

[square_wave]

Hey Murali,

Try and advertise your gear on Audiogon. It will help sell locally. Advertising on forums like this will not expose the gear to the right demographic.

 

[Nikhil]

Hi murali,

Just curious about where is "here" and "there"?