antoniodias
Active Member
To sum up guys, am sorry to say that the very sound of vinyl keeps me asking for more. I love vinyls, and beats all other source of music
Vinyl vs Digital?
- Thread starter chander
- Start date
Sean de Silva
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more
www.headphonesty.com
CD Remains as the Most Preferred Audio Format Among Audiophiles, Based on a Recent Survey
The second most popular format isn’t exactly chosen for sound quality.
www.headphonesty.com
Lizard King
Well-Known Member
Rolex vs Timex story.Couldn't agree more
CD Remains as the Most Preferred Audio Format Among Audiophiles, Based on a Recent Survey
The second most popular format isn’t exactly chosen for sound quality.
***Disclaimer - Do not want to ruffle any feathers - just sharing another step in my journey.
Came to this topic again after ages as last week I got rid of my Vinyls + TT - last 3-4 months have been a lot of "Analog first".
It was just not for me. Digital is far more convenient.
PLEASE do not take it as me claiming one media is superior NO. It is just that for me music is a whole day affair. I work from home, so there is music in the background all day and me tapping my feet to it. I need to pause, stop, change in an instant and shuffle genres depending how much I am getting abused at work. The the format of "Streaming Digital Music" just fits my lifestyle perfectly.
This made Vinyl a lot more ritualistic almost like a religious ceremony one step after another in a prescribed manner - I also felt I was obliged to "listen" to it and when I was using it as a background system it didn't really add any value. I couldn't find the warmth and the blanket and the pillow in the sound.
Also in my very humble setup - no fancy TT, no highly regarded phono stage, no "top of the line" record labels etc - most of the stuff I had was all hand me downs from here and there, with about 40 or so albums I really like and another 20-30 LPs of "highly regarded - jazz/classical/pop albums". It was hard to ever get into a groove.
Growing up we almost always had a radio running in the house (my mom used to have one in the background always) and that habit of a background groove going all day has only gotten stronger with streaming. This instant all day gratitude has really spoilt me.
****Right now - I am listening to the -
Stanley Clark - School Days Song Radio (on Spotify - lossless
) & The next 5 songs are -
Marcus Miller - Power
Richard Holmes - Groovin for Mr. G'
The fearless flyers - Ace of aces
Alphonse Mouzon - Happiness Is Loving You
Herbie Hancock - Gentle Thoughts
These are all brilliant groove heavy songs. For me this works - it keeps the flavor profile that I am craving, but it keeps adding a little different spice here and there that doesn't let things get boring & when I stumble upon something I do not like much - it is just a press of a key on my keyboard.
CONVENIENCE.
HOWEVER - I have huge respect for people who can keep this vinyl thing going. It is like the vintage car/bike/watch aficionados. The amount of dedication and patience a hobby like this requires - you perhaps need - Monk like inner peace.
Just from the time you decide to listen to music to the time you call it a day, there are too many steps involved and at every step I believe you have to be SURE and certain.
HATS OFF - to you people.
For me Vinyl is like Metallica - everyone around me loves them, wants to play them, I have always felt they are unbearable. BUT I also know I am an IDIOT, so every 2-3 years I give the whole discography another try and then by the end of it I realise again - they are unbearable and as a side effect I do not listen to anything harder than Lucy in the sky with diamonds for a few weeks.
Right now I have Vinyl Trauma to work through. But like everything else our mind forgets how bad the pain was & goes into it again willingly.
Till next time I find myself craving to give this media another try.
I believe this was the third time - Maybe 4th time the charm.
Came to this topic again after ages as last week I got rid of my Vinyls + TT - last 3-4 months have been a lot of "Analog first".
It was just not for me. Digital is far more convenient.
PLEASE do not take it as me claiming one media is superior NO. It is just that for me music is a whole day affair. I work from home, so there is music in the background all day and me tapping my feet to it. I need to pause, stop, change in an instant and shuffle genres depending how much I am getting abused at work. The the format of "Streaming Digital Music" just fits my lifestyle perfectly.
This made Vinyl a lot more ritualistic almost like a religious ceremony one step after another in a prescribed manner - I also felt I was obliged to "listen" to it and when I was using it as a background system it didn't really add any value. I couldn't find the warmth and the blanket and the pillow in the sound.
Also in my very humble setup - no fancy TT, no highly regarded phono stage, no "top of the line" record labels etc - most of the stuff I had was all hand me downs from here and there, with about 40 or so albums I really like and another 20-30 LPs of "highly regarded - jazz/classical/pop albums". It was hard to ever get into a groove.
Growing up we almost always had a radio running in the house (my mom used to have one in the background always) and that habit of a background groove going all day has only gotten stronger with streaming. This instant all day gratitude has really spoilt me.
****Right now - I am listening to the -
Stanley Clark - School Days Song Radio (on Spotify - lossless
) & The next 5 songs are -Marcus Miller - Power
Richard Holmes - Groovin for Mr. G'
The fearless flyers - Ace of aces
Alphonse Mouzon - Happiness Is Loving You
Herbie Hancock - Gentle Thoughts
These are all brilliant groove heavy songs. For me this works - it keeps the flavor profile that I am craving, but it keeps adding a little different spice here and there that doesn't let things get boring & when I stumble upon something I do not like much - it is just a press of a key on my keyboard.
CONVENIENCE.
HOWEVER - I have huge respect for people who can keep this vinyl thing going. It is like the vintage car/bike/watch aficionados. The amount of dedication and patience a hobby like this requires - you perhaps need - Monk like inner peace.
Just from the time you decide to listen to music to the time you call it a day, there are too many steps involved and at every step I believe you have to be SURE and certain.
HATS OFF - to you people.
For me Vinyl is like Metallica - everyone around me loves them, wants to play them, I have always felt they are unbearable. BUT I also know I am an IDIOT, so every 2-3 years I give the whole discography another try and then by the end of it I realise again - they are unbearable and as a side effect I do not listen to anything harder than Lucy in the sky with diamonds for a few weeks.
Right now I have Vinyl Trauma to work through. But like everything else our mind forgets how bad the pain was & goes into it again willingly.
Till next time I find myself craving to give this media another try.
I believe this was the third time - Maybe 4th time the charm.
Gerry_the_Merry
Well-Known Member
At a similar price point digital should beat vinyl. I might not have said this 3-4 years ago but a lot has improved since. At the very high end with tens of thousands of dollars I am not qualified to comment. But at around the usd 5-7k mark for digital you will need to spend more on an analog system to get the same quality. This assuming no difference in the recording quality (could even be a digital mastering in both cases).
Bhaskar Jyoti Talapatra
Well-Known Member
Yes TTs are easier today than a decade back but new vinyls in general Suck
morerajendra5678
Active Member
I started my audio journey 1.5 years back and have managed to put together a high-end setup for digital audio with collection of Dacs, Pre-amplifier and Amplifier to choose from.
Many times the thought of having a good vinyl setup has crossed my mind. I have never owned any vinyls personally.
When people say that new vinyls suck and a good number of people say that, I want to understand on
1. what is missing from new vinyls?
2. Doesn't equalization help to take care of the missing link?
3. Will use of high end cartridge help bridge the gap?
Old vinyls are hard to get at decent price. Even the ones that you can have hands on sometimes are not in pristine condition to give enough confidence that they will last for next 30 years.
reubensm
Well-Known Member
Nice perspective, the truth is vinyl is niche, digital is for everyone***Disclaimer - Do not want to ruffle any feathers - just sharing another step in my journey.
Came to this topic again after ages as last week I got rid of my Vinyls + TT - last 3-4 months have been a lot of "Analog first".
It was just not for me. Digital is far more convenient.
PLEASE do not take it as me claiming one media is superior NO. It is just that for me music is a whole day affair. I work from home, so there is music in the background all day and me tapping my feet to it. I need to pause, stop, change in an instant and shuffle genres depending how much I am getting abused at work. The the format of "Streaming Digital Music" just fits my lifestyle perfectly.
This made Vinyl a lot more ritualistic almost like a religious ceremony one step after another in a prescribed manner - I also felt I was obliged to "listen" to it and when I was using it as a background system it didn't really add any value. I couldn't find the warmth and the blanket and the pillow in the sound.
Also in my very humble setup - no fancy TT, no highly regarded phono stage, no "top of the line" record labels etc - most of the stuff I had was all hand me downs from here and there, with about 40 or so albums I really like and another 20-30 LPs of "highly regarded - jazz/classical/pop albums". It was hard to ever get into a groove.
Growing up we almost always had a radio running in the house (my mom used to have one in the background always) and that habit of a background groove going all day has only gotten stronger with streaming. This instant all day gratitude has really spoilt me.
****Right now - I am listening to the -
Stanley Clark - School Days Song Radio (on Spotify - lossless
Marcus Miller - Power
Richard Holmes - Groovin for Mr. G'
The fearless flyers - Ace of aces
Alphonse Mouzon - Happiness Is Loving You
Herbie Hancock - Gentle Thoughts
These are all brilliant groove heavy songs. For me this works - it keeps the flavor profile that I am craving, but it keeps adding a little different spice here and there that doesn't let things get boring & when I stumble upon something I do not like much - it is just a press of a key on my keyboard.
CONVENIENCE.
HOWEVER - I have huge respect for people who can keep this vinyl thing going. It is like the vintage car/bike/watch aficionados. The amount of dedication and patience a hobby like this requires - you perhaps need - Monk like inner peace.
Just from the time you decide to listen to music to the time you call it a day, there are too many steps involved and at every step I believe you have to be SURE and certain.
HATS OFF - to you people.
For me Vinyl is like Metallica - everyone around me loves them, wants to play them, I have always felt they are unbearable. BUT I also know I am an IDIOT, so every 2-3 years I give the whole discography another try and then by the end of it I realise again - they are unbearable and as a side effect I do not listen to anything harder than Lucy in the sky with diamonds for a few weeks.
Right now I have Vinyl Trauma to work through. But like everything else our mind forgets how bad the pain was & goes into it again willingly.
Till next time I find myself craving to give this media another try.
I believe this was the third time - Maybe 4th time the charm.
Another angle for new vinyl aficionados is the collectability factor. I come from the 70s vinyl era in India when all you got was a record with a cover. Outside of EMI and Polydor and some other labels via the GCOIL (all in the western music genre), there was hardly anything released. In my teens in the 80s, we had cassettes but again, an average quality product in a jewel case with a printed label (and sometimes an insert or inner sleeve with lyrics). If I wanted to find out about bands like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motley Crue, Scorpions, Europe, Guns N' Roses, etc, the only place to go was either the Sun or Illustrated Weekly. If I am to collect today, as a fan, just see what I can get (and its not about listening to vinyl or about the price point, interestingly):
The mastering is where there is an issue. most of the new presses are made from Master used for CDs and hence their Dynamic range is compromised . I have several old and new LPs and the difference is palpable . Vinyl Masters are usually mastered better based on the target market compared to CD masters even if they come from the same Original master. in many cases the cd master is at a lower resolution as well.
What has been lost cannot be equalized. but if you have an analogue equaliser it might still work but most do it in the digital domain
Well it will pull up the available information better if you have a good Phonostage as well.
Yes, this is the problem..a reason why I would rather store old records if in good condition.
morerajendra5678
Active Member
Well if you can get your music on Vinyl, its still worthwhile getting but choose carefully in what you want . eg Western classical and Jazz the difference is very low.
Music till 70s and even some on 80s Vinyl is better. but for alter CD is better. even with CDs , in many case the older pressings.
Discogs does not ship to india but if you have an address there and and option someone can bring it here. you can still get some records there.
50-100 records is actually more than enough..many hoarders like me may have gone seriously overboard though
Music till 70s and even some on 80s Vinyl is better. but for alter CD is better. even with CDs , in many case the older pressings.
Discogs does not ship to india but if you have an address there and and option someone can bring it here. you can still get some records there.
50-100 records is actually more than enough..many hoarders like me may have gone seriously overboard though
ajuvignesh
Well-Known Member
Vinyls can handle high dynamic range. What it cannot handle is good amount of bass. For that the grooves have to be dug wide enough and physically that cannot be done because the vinyl has a limitation on the diameter. To handle reasonable bass, we have the wonderful RIAA equalization and has allowed us to have wonderful quality on vinyl till now. RIAA equalization allows us to cut narrower grooves during cutting and boost that during playback. Hence this RIAA equalization allows us to reasonably address the physical limitation of the vinyl.
The dynamic range of a direct-cut vinyl record may surpass 70 dB. Analog studio master tapes can have a dynamic range of up to 77 dB. An LP made out of perfect diamond has an atomic feature size of about 0.5 nanometer, which, with a groove size of 8 micron, yields a theoretical dynamic range of 110 dB. An LP made out of perfect vinyl LP would have a theoretical dynamic range of 70 dB.
CD can give a much higher dynamic range than LP, but in practice what you get is recordings with compressed dynamic range and this is one of the prime reaons why digital music have got a bad rep.
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Technically perhaps CD is ( or Was) the best medium and vinyl is compromised. lets include all digital media into this. Streaming may be different as in the end the bandwidth of streaming could be a limiting matter
Lets start with how do people listen to each.
-CD ( perhaps even streaming) Majority is consumed over average headphones and earphones and a miniscule percentage on decent systems. Now for a person sitting in a bus/car/office/at home listening on an average earphone/headphone the music has to to be compressed so they are able to listen to the bass and the treble with an average volume. hence the mastering is done compressed and DR reduced so they can hear it
-For Vinyl the majority of listening is in a decent Hifi hence the mastering is done with a far better quality. usually with pretty good speakers . I have never had a needle skipping ever as long as you dont put the TT in a room node with Bass Boom.
Hence the CD master and LP master are both quite different. in newer reissues, music houses want to save the bother since the sales are not so high per album they just give the CD master which is EQ'd
IF done with the same DR the CD will sound better as vinyl playback is far more compromised. Hence for new well recorder Jazz/Classical, the listeners are usually far more discerning on SQ, CD will be be better option unless you have a really good TT/Cart/Phono
Yup every-time I try to get into Vinyl, I realise to get anywhere close to what I can get from digital - I need a fair amount of resources - time, money, space, addresses abroad, frequent visits to foreign lands.Nice perspective, the truth is vinyl is niche, digital is for everyone
It reminds me of why I got rid of my AVL 500 Machismo & opted for a more modern bike. The AVL was brilliant, limited edition, hand painted tank, beautiful chrome that held close to 15 years, rode super relaxed and well, pure Joy - smooth thumper, could be fixed forever as it was a simple machine - PROVIDED - I was dedicating atleast 5-6 hours every week just in the upkeep of the bike, keep getting parts from UK - as it was impossible to get them in India, keep polishing every nut and bolt with anti-rust polish and carry a house worth of tools when on the road.
But it got me into this - proud exclusive club of the elite thumpers, the niche little group that met in a 5 star coffee shop to discuss the end of a dynasty with the AVLs & Right hand gear shifters or the Yamaha 2 strokes & how the modern machines are nothing but a mass produced engine on 2 wheels.
I still Shifted to a Modern Machine. Which is better in every way - starts when I want, goes everywhere and anywhere. Is a hell lot of fun to ride. I carry no tools other than a leather-man & a tubeless tire patch kit as - one it is super reliable & second I can't fix it if anything goes wrong.
But sadly no one cares about my Glowing Japanese Steed, it gets me no entry in any niche bike groups, my old mates turn their gaze when I pass by as they do no want to acknowledge the abomination. There is no pride of owning a one of a kind.
It is indeed a niche hobby, that requires above all - appreciation for simplicity and dedication for perfection and takes a different kind of a man to pursue. I am sadly not that man.
General_sound
Well-Known Member
I appreciate what you have written ,Chander. Maybe records are a niche hobby now, but earlier it was never so. There were millions of record lovers, and somehow it survived the cassette and CD age, both good mediums. I own very simple turntables but still marvel at these mechanical machines! You will be happy to know that there are many Bollywood and regional records which were mastered by audio engineers and sounded excellent. Do not give up on the record sound. Warm regards.
ajuvignesh
Well-Known Member
Yes. 70 db is a lot of dynamic range. But my point is if the mastered version for cds have 96db of dynamic range, it has to be compressed to that of less than 70db for vinyls.
ajuvignesh
Well-Known Member
From what I know, the compression is due to loudness war and nothing to do with the format. However, one cannot transfer the same loudness to the vinyl compared to the cds technically. Hence, for vinyls the music has to be mastered differently and that gives music a pleasant edge compared to digital media.
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