Want to upgrade my AVR

[docd]

Auditioned Yamaha 863 and 867 today. The latter sounded better. Only problem is that both models are discontinued. They were also 110V and need a step down transformer. May be able to pick up a bargain though. Any suggestions, anyone?

 

[mav]

Whats your feedback regarding the sound characteristics of those two? Also whats the price that Aman quoted?

The 867 hasnt been discontinued yet as per the spec-sheet of Yamaha USA:
RX - AV Receivers - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States

Moreover far from being discontinued models such as 867 have not even been introduced in India yet. Guess we get previous generation models when the entire world moves on to something better Here is a look at the Yamaha India sheet:
AV Receivers/Amplifiers - Yamaha - India

 

[docd]

Mav ive sent you a PM

 

[Santy]

Santy,
The reason I want preouts is that I can continue to use only one front speaker pair for both music and movies. I have a marantz PM6002 amp which is very musical. I just connect the AVRs front preouts to the amps aux in and can play them thru the amp.Believe me it makes a world of difference to the sound. Any help re this would be appreciated. Sent you a PM, check and get back to me

You should rather get a good dac for your Marantz, if you want to enjoy music. I do not think the preouts of an avr will be much better than that in your amplifier. May be I am wrong. Btw how will you change speaker connections between amp and avr, banana plugs?

 

[docd]

You should rather get a good dac for your Marantz, if you want to enjoy music. I do not think the preouts of an avr will be much better than that in your amplifier. May be I am wrong. Btw how will you change speaker connections between amp and avr, banana plugs?

Iam not going to use the AVR for music. The preouts will be connected to aux in of my Marantz 6002 amp. the front speakers are connected only to the amp. When playing AVR the front channels are thru the amp.When playing music I dont use the AVR at all. Ive connected my Marantz CD 5001 thru CD in of the amp and thats what I use for music. This way I dont need to change speakers when using either amp or AVR. Using the front preouts to amp when playing movies just gives better sound.

 

[Santy]

Oh got it. Even I do enjoy movies on the amplifier in two channel sometimes. Its a different experience. However on full surround, center is also equally important. There might be matching issues.

I did not know that you have a cdp. In this case, your idea is good. Only that you have to keep the mode on the avr straight/ pure since no settings like dsp would apply on the preouts. I also think ypao/audessy/ level/ distance adjustments won't work.

 

[docd]

Oh got it. Even I do enjoy movies on the amplifier in two channel sometimes. Its a different experience. However on full surround, center is also equally important. There might be matching issues.

I did not know that you have a cdp. In this case, your idea is good. Only that you have to keep the mode on the avr straight/ pure since no settings like dsp would apply on the preouts. I also think ypao/audessy/ level/ distance adjustments won't work.

Santy,
you can enjoy movies in 5.1 with this method. Only the fronts go thru the preouts to the amp. The AVR still plays the centre surrounds and sub directly. Since the fronts are the most important you just get better sound this way. In short, the amp is like a power amp for the fronts in this method.During set up you have to make sure you have connected this way, audessy will still work. Just make sure you keep amps volume at one constant, say 11 or 12 oclock and maintain the same everytime. All volume changes are then made thru AVRs volume control.

 

[Santy]

Doc
Yup. I know what you mean, centre and surrounds playing through avr and fronts through integrated. It will work nicely no doubt. The best part being that you don't have to change speaker connections for movies/music and for music you don't have to power up the avr.

Just that timber matching could be a problem since every amp has a different signature, only if you critically listen to it. Also the fronts should not overpower the center in my opinion. If you have enough power for the centre, there are no issues. You are anyway getting a powerful avr now.
On a second thought you may be getting better quality on the centre since more power is available in absence of amplification of two channels on avr.

What we are discussing now actually needs a new thread, sorry to derail yours... Good luck on your hunt.

 

[docd]

Doc
Yup. I know what you mean, centre and surrounds playing through avr and fronts through integrated. It will work nicely no doubt. The best part being that you don't have to change speaker connections for movies/music and for music you don't have to power up the avr.

Just that timber matching could be a problem since every amp has a different signature, only if you critically listen to it. Also the fronts should not overpower the center in my opinion. If you have enough power for the centre, there are no issues. You are anyway getting a powerful avr now.
On a second thought you may be getting better quality on the centre since more power is available in absence of amplification of two channels on avr.

What we are discussing now actually needs a new thread, sorry to derail yours... Good luck on your hunt.

absolutely right, this is a whole new topic. we should open a new thread to discuss it. since you also have both amp and AVR why dont you try it out and let me know if you find any difference in sound quality. I am sure you will then keep it that way. BTW how do you manage now, do you have 2 speaker sets or you keep changing from amp to AVR?

 

[Flash]

Santy, Docd,

A quick question. With the Yamaha 8xx, When a power amp or integrated is connected to it through the preouts does the AVR allow Bass management or does it send the full signal to the fronts ?

 

[docd]

Santy, Docd,

A quick question. With the Yamaha 8xx, When a power amp or integrated is connected to it through the preouts does the AVR allow Bass management or does it send the full signal to the fronts ?

Good point Flash, but I have no idea. though it should be possible. Maybe Santy can answer that. We may need to check the manual on the Yamaha site

 

[manoj.p]

Flash - the question is not directed at me, but let me jibe in.
All pre-outs send the same signal as the speaker outs, just without amplification. That means, yes, the bass management/dsp/room correction/any other processing is already done on that in the receiver.

If you use the line-outs, then its the 2 channel signal without any processing.

 

[Santy]

Yes I think what manoj says is correct. Audessey and ypao will allow all adjustments and equalizations on the preous as well. All processing are applied at pre amp level and the power amp section only does the amplification part. But I still have a doubt when you do auto calibrations without front speakers connected, which the avr can detect, it may not be successful as the minimum no. of speakers needed are two and they are front left and right. Thus it gives raise to another question whether it can detect the fronts connected to the preouts as well...

 

[Flash]

Thanks guys,
But i still have my doubts.

I have a old Denon 2106 and when i Connect power amp connected to the preouts

1. Denon (atleast the older model that i have) sends a full signal to the preout terminals. I had not realised it earlier
But when playing a bass heavy track - Bass i love you - I was closely looking at my speaker drivers when i saw massive excursion. although i had set the speakers as small and sub crossover at 80hz When the speakers were connected directly to the AVR. the excursion was immediately limited as it should be.

2. Denon has a speaker A/B switch even if i switch off both the signal is still routed to the poweramps via preouts.

Docd... can you please check this on the Yam.

I am planning on upgrading my AVR again same situation like yours. I want to make sure I buy the right AVR

 

[Flash]

Flash - the question is not directed at me, but let me jibe in.
All pre-outs send the same signal as the speaker outs, just without amplification. That means, yes, the bass management/dsp/room correction/any other processing is already done on that in the receiver.

If you use the line-outs, then its the 2 channel signal without any processing.

Manoj,

Do you mean. that there will be absolutely no bass management when power amps / integrated amps are connected to the Preouts ?

 

[dillihifi]

I think he means exactly the opposite i.e. that bass management is done and then the signal is fed to the power amp section of the receiver if we use the preouts.

 

[Flash]

I think he means exactly the opposite i.e. that bass management is done and then the signal is fed to the power amp section of the receiver if we use the preouts.

Hmmm ok.

 

[denom]

Hi docd,

missed this thread completely! It was a real pleasure meeting you last sunday. Santy has covered most of the things including the 'warm' reception we both received, for which, thank you

as for your AVR observations, you are spot on.

FYI, i met Ashish a short while back @ his shop. He is getting some deadly AVR's in his next shipment, so if you can wait, i'd suggest you check them out as well. Have requested him to send me the details of them ASAP.

 

[docd]

Thanks guys,
But i still have my doubts.

I have a old Denon 2106 and when i Connect power amp connected to the preouts

1. Denon (atleast the older model that i have) sends a full signal to the preout terminals. I had not realised it earlier
But when playing a bass heavy track - Bass i love you - I was closely looking at my speaker drivers when i saw massive excursion. although i had set the speakers as small and sub crossover at 80hz When the speakers were connected directly to the AVR. the excursion was immediately limited as it should be.

2. Denon has a speaker A/B switch even if i switch off both the signal is still routed to the poweramps via preouts.

Docd... can you please check this on the Yam.

I am planning on upgrading my AVR again same situation like yours. I want to make sure I buy the right AVR

Flash
I too have an old Denon-1906, but strangely I used to feel that the speaker settings used to affect the preouts. Ill check it out again within a day or two. and yes even if both speakers are off the preouts work.
I cant check it on the Yamaha right now as the AVR is not with me. If I buy it I surely will do it. But I feel its logical that all the processing is done at the preout level.
BTW what AVRs have you in mind for replacement?

 

[docd]

Hi docd,

missed this thread completely! It was a real pleasure meeting you last sunday. Santy has covered most of the things including the 'warm' reception we both received, for which, thank you

as for your AVR observations, you are spot on.

FYI, i met Ashish a short while back @ his shop. He is getting some deadly AVR's in his next shipment, so if you can wait, i'd suggest you check them out as well. Have requested him to send me the details of them ASAP.

Denom
Great news, I can wait. Just let me know whats in the pipeline. I hope that the prices are equally tempting! And yes it was a pleasure meeting you and Santy finally! We must do this more often!