Where to buy 3D projector in Chennai

Why isn't the moderator Venkatcr deleting this thread the way he deleted my Projector pricing threat without giving me notice? If my pricing thread (which contained details of pricing of every home theatre projector officially launched in India till date) doesn't "add value", this thread damn sure doesn't add any value to anyone.

I would request all participants to back off. All of you have said what you wanted to say, and leave it at that. Any more discussions on this, I will be forced to close the thread.

ContendedBloke, I am not sure which thread you are referring to, but we delete threads only after a lot of thoughts and discussions amongst ourselves. The thread must have broken some rules.

Vinay, Srini, and MusicMaya - please understand a Forum is a place where you discuss, not fight.

Cheers
 
The show comes to a end of 3/4/6 feet. :clapping:

V.
 
Last edited:
ContendedBloke, I am not sure which thread you are referring to, but we delete threads only after a lot of thoughts and discussions amongst ourselves. The thread must have broken some rules.

Cheers

Since the thread was deleted, I cannot give you the link. But pls check your pm, I would have sent atleast a couple of PMs asking why you deleted without giving me or the other forum members who thanked me for the thread, a chance to defend it.

And no, it did not break a single rule.
 
Venkat,

I would like to put forth some of my thoughts (mostly technical) on this topic of seating distance. Would it be okay to post it or its totally off-limits?
 
I was going through the old posts and found the following post from Venkatcr dated 21-Apr-2010 (by the way Venkat, you have the uncanny nature and character of seeing the future :cool:). How appropriate you were and bang on when you said the below (and guess who you were replying to? it's none other than our Mr. Vinay). :)

http://www.hifivision.com/announcements/8788-please-welcome-our-new-moderator-venkatcr-12.html

Quote

The issue is, Vinay, that the minute you start telling people what can be done and what cannot be done, people start taking sides and forming opinions. In addition, of course, people instinctively start disliking the person who implements and sets the rules. And it is very difficult to be fair to everyone, irrespective of what decision you take. Unfortunately someone has to do the job.

But, don't worry. I shall don my member cap as much as possible, and wear my Moderator cap only when absolutely necessary.

Unquote

and Vinay has thanked Venkatcr for this useful post.:)

Vinay, I like your "never give-up" fighting spirit.:eek:hyeah:
It's good to see the forum members are so passionate and live and giving a kick-ass replies, all to be taken, I'm sure on a positive note (constructive criticism) with a pinch of salt.:clapping::clapping:

By the way, can anyone remember kaptan...Well to refresh our memories he is the guy who started this thread asking a simple quesiton Where can I buy a 3D projector in chennai?. He must be wondering what's all this ruckus about and must be kicking himself to even ask this straight forward question. I guess we have lost it somewhere in the beginning of the healthy discussion.

Ciao
 
Re: Projector Is Not The Only Thing To Look For

IMHO, sitting 6ft from a screen even with a 30deg viewing angle is too close. There is something about size/immersion which cannot be created just by sitting close to the image.

To extend this further, you could also sit at 3ft and use a 42in plasma. Will you get a theater experience? I seriously doubt it.

Heck, with a 3ft distance you can even put this setup in the bathroom, no dedicated HT room required:lol:. Ok Ok, I am stretching things now:)

For mother of records here also PJ was installed at almost 6 to 8 feet approx:p

11172008638473.jpg

Srinisundar, How did you measure 6-8 feet in this picture and where is this picture from? Looks like demo room for interior design, the projector does not even seem to be centered to me.
 
Thanks Venkat,

There is some good info in this thread about the discussion, but somehow things got hot. Now, if we have to refer something, we can always go back to THX and see what they recommend.

THX recommends a viewing angle between the viewer and sides of screen as 40 deg or less. To get the min viewing distance, divide screen diagonal length by .84. By this, they recommend 60" screen size by seating distance of 6~9 ft. So, we can have any seating distance, its just that we then have some limits on screen size. Now, granted, there may be some people who would like to seat closer and won't mind (its personal choice anyways) but if we have to make a generalization, then I think THX is good place to start.

If we are using the projectors, then as we reduce the screen size, there are couple of issues that pop-up and we definitely need to consider those.
  1. The projectors have a specified range of throw distance (distance between front of lens and screen). Many of the projectors have ranges from 10 ft onwards for throw distance. For example, Mitsubishi HC4000 has throw distance from 10.5 ft to 25.3 ft. Outside this range, the projectors lens cannot get a sharp focus. If one needs to have a projector mounted at shorter length, then he needs to get a short throw projector, like Optoma HD20 which starts from 5 ft or so. Also, if I have to mount a projector, I would not prefer to have the throw distance near the specified range limit. I would keep it around the middle of the range, cause thats where the lens performance would be best. Most of entry and mid level projectors of today have plastic lens, so it does have some imperfections like barrel distortion, pincushion, chromatic aberration etc near their ranges. Those are within limits, but they are max at that point. Top of that, we are seating closer, then those imperfections would be quicker to notice. :(
  2. At the shorter distance, we have the screen size which is smaller. Now, if a projector is recommended for 120" diagonal, and if we use it for lets say 72" diagonal, there is going to be huge increase in light output. To judge it, we have to take the lumens of projector and divide those by area of the screen. At 120" diagonal, screen area is 45 sqft vs 15 sqft for 72". So, the light output at 72" will be 3 times more compared to 120". If one has to watch the movie continuously, viewer will get headache and definitely get tired after a while. Thats also has to be considered. Offcourse, one can use a neutral density filter in front of the lens and cut down the brightness. But it does need some consideration. Just for reference, cinema halls have 6~12 ft lamberts of light. At home many people prefer 12~16. Any more and there will be headaches from the brightness (some people will still be immune to it and can take more brightness)
  3. another aspect is cables and everything. We need to leave some space behind the projector and surrounding so that it cools faster and cables also don't have to bend a lot. Bent cables exert quite a bit of pressure on the connector ports like HDMI etc. we all know how fragile those are.
  4. Another aspect is acoustics. If the seating is right next to back wall, you will have loud levels as the lower frequencies are lingering around wall boundaries and corners. There is bound to be listeners fatigue after an hour of listening or so (unless one listens on very small volumes) Another aspect is, the sound from front speakers and the reflections of those from the back wall will reach the listener at the same time. There is bound to be muddying up of the sound, with no front soundstage, no separation between front and surround speakers.

These are the setup guidelines and one can still put the projector in a small room. Its just that one has to understand the limitations. Then either work around those limitations or live with those. Most of the Home theaters, audio setup etc have some limitations or other. We either live with them and find workaround. One has to decide whether s/he can live with those are not. :cool:

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Venkat,

There is some good info in this thread about the discussion, but somehow things got hot. Now, if we have to refer something, we can always go back to THX and see what they recommend.

THX recommends a viewing angle between the viewer and sides of screen as 40 deg or less. To get the min viewing distance, divide screen diagonal length by .84. By this, they recommend 60" screen size by seating distance of 6~9 ft. So, we can have any seating distance, its just that we then have some limits on screen size. Now, granted, there may be some people who would like to seat closer and won't mind (its personal choice anyways) but if we have to make a generalization, then I think THX is good place to start.

If we are using the projectors, then as we reduce the screen size, there are couple of issues that pop-up and we definitely need to consider those.
  1. The projectors have a specified range of throw distance (distance between front of lens and screen). Many of the projectors have ranges from 10 ft onwards for throw distance. For example, Mitsubishi HC4000 has throw distance from 10.5 ft to 25.3 ft. Outside this range, the projectors lens cannot get a sharp focus. If one needs to have a projector mounted at shorter length, then he needs to get a short throw projector, like Optoma HD20 which starts from 5 ft or so. Also, if I have to mount a projector, I would not prefer to have the throw distance near the specified range limit. I would keep it around the middle of the range, cause thats where the lens performance would be best. Most of entry and mid level projectors of today have plastic lens, so it does have some imperfections like barrel distortion, pincushion, chromatic aberration etc near their ranges. Those are within limits, but they are max at that point. Top of that, we are seating closer, then those imperfections would be quicker to notice. :(
  2. At the shorter distance, we have the screen size which is smaller. Now, if a projector is recommended for 120" diagonal, and if we use it for lets say 72" diagonal, there is going to be huge increase in light output. To judge it, we have to take the lumens of projector and divide those by area of the screen. At 120" diagonal, screen area is 45 sqft vs 15 sqft for 72". So, the light output at 72" will be 3 times more compared to 120". If one has to watch the movie continuously, viewer will get headache and definitely get tired after a while. Thats also has to be considered. Offcourse, one can use a neutral density filter in front of the lens and cut down the brightness. But it does need some consideration. Just for reference, cinema halls have 6~12 ft lamberts of light. At home many people prefer 12~16. Any more and there will be headaches from the brightness (some people will still be immune to it and can take more brightness)
  3. another aspect is cables and everything. We need to leave some space behind the projector and surrounding so that it cools faster and cables also don't have to bend a lot. Bent cables exert quite a bit of pressure on the connector ports like HDMI etc. we all know how fragile those are.
  4. Another aspect is acoustics. If the seating is right next to back wall, you will have loud levels as the lower frequencies are lingering around wall boundaries and corners. There is bound to be listeners fatigue after an hour of listening or so (unless one listens on very small volumes) Another aspect is, the sound from front speakers and the reflections of those from the back wall will reach the listener at the same time. There is bound to be muddying up of the sound, with no front soundstage, no separation between front and surround speakers.

These are the setup guidelines and one can still put the projector in a small room. Its just that one has to understand the limitations. Then either work around those limitations or live with those. Most of the Home theaters, audio setup etc have some limitations or other. We either live with them and find workaround. One has to decide whether s/he can live with those are not. :cool:

Hope this helps.

Thanks Manoj for your write up... Yep these are already discussed here somewhere I remember and general thumb rule of seating distance is 1.5times the screen size and it is recommended and experienced by all who own PJ and utilize properly :).However the point of reflection of sound is agreeable if we tend to sit at end and that cannot be denied but it is not an valid one to stop viewing at 6ft if he want to taste the PJ. May be it can be discussed in acoustic part to avoid reflection:p

The point debated here is: Vinay who owns and watch projector by sitting at a distance of 25ft and screen size 120"/84" who is totally against using the PJ who is having 8ft length room and watching distance from 6ft is questionable and argued here healthily at some point and worstly too.

I tried to tell sitting at 6ft is not an personal preference and but could not do because of "limitation".

So as per THX 60" can be viewed starting at 6ft>>>>So it is recommended.

Another example how much an 60" Plasma/LED cost???? Rs.1,20,000... PJ cost only 75K and it is lesser than that... That is another advantage. Clarity is better too and we have portability with PJ:):)
 
Last edited:
Yes, a 60" display is possible from 6 ft. All one needs to see that display is chosen so it will fit the room. A short throw projector, and possible low lumen (or using a neutral density filter). Those DLP LED projectors looks attractive for these kind of room.

About the acoustics, huge absorption will be needed to absorb all the lower frequencies near the walls. That will make the room crowding. Better to use light absorbers and no sub at all in that case. :)
 
Manoj,

Indeed there is great information on this thread, the viewing distance of 6/4 feet, the horrible suggestion that it is fine to put mighty floor standers in such a room, the photo with no acoustics, bizarre sitting arrangement, which will call for double surgery and host of other issues.

As THX recommends a 60" screen from seating distance of 6/9 feet, so the one's who are viewing from 6 feet is fine but quite a pity being at the border and not being able to reach even 7 feet though 9 feet is super impossible. While what happens to the other family member's who are going to view from 4 feet? It is simple there is no recommendation even by THX for the 4 feet viewing distance.

I need to assure that given a choice no one will like to sit closer and watch movies that too from a hair raising 4 feet.

As acoustics too are going to be a big issue with room length of 6 feet, it means problem all the way be it in terms of screen size or the sound quality etc.

In view to these and many other factors as threaded etc i am confident that to use a projector in such a room will be of nuisance value and a mother of compromise, be the factor in question.

V.


Thanks Venkat,

There is some good info in this thread about the discussion, but somehow things got hot.

To get the min viewing distance, divide screen diagonal length by .84. By this, they recommend 60" screen size by seating distance of 6~9 ft. So, we can have any seating distance, its just that we then have some limits on screen size. Now, granted, there may be some people who would like to seat closer and won't mind (its personal choice anyways)

If we are using the projectors, then as we reduce the screen size, there are couple of issues that pop-up and we definitely need to consider those.

Another aspect is acoustics. If the seating is right next to back wall, you will have loud levels as the lower frequencies are lingering around wall boundaries and corners. There is bound to be listeners fatigue after an hour of listening or so (unless one listens on very small volumes) Another aspect is, the sound from front speakers and the reflections of those from the back wall will reach the listener at the same time. There is bound to be muddying up of the sound, with no front soundstage, no separation between front and surround speakers.
 
Last edited:
Manoj,

You are right there is absolutely no scope for getting proper acoustics done due to the crowding room. The room is already over crowded with 5 to 7 family members in a 6 feet room.

Instead of reducing the crowd there is a suggestion to increase the crowd by putting floor standing speakers instead of bookshelves.

It seems the goal is simple to get the crowd out of hand even if that means a stampede in the small room.

It is indeed a good idea that there should be no sub woofer in such a room but then watching a movie without the low frequencies is like a person not having the crucial organ which is a heart or i would say one without legs, this is going to be a mother of sorry state.

While that is a another story that sub woofer has to be placed somewhere near the screen because other area of the room is already too crowded with the family members. I will not be surprised if the sub will be better placed at other points of the room but such a opportunity is impossible, so a another feather of problem.

I am having a 23 feet room length, with my sub woofer the room rattles quite a lot with action movies and moreover my show pieces in the room drop or move from it's original place and if this is not enough my small data projector's location moves slightly every know and then so i have to keep shifting it back around once a month. I wonder how alarming a sub woofer effect would be in a 6/8 feet room.

In view to these new emerging factors all the more it may be better to keep away from the projector. If still one goes for a projector it is going to be a huge factory of compromises.

V.



About the acoustics, huge absorption will be needed to absorb all the lower frequencies near the walls. That will make the room crowding. Better to use light absorbers and no sub at all in that case. :)
 
Last edited:
Rajan,

Thanks for the writing.

I have the never give up spirit when i strongly believe in something.

V.



Vinay, I like your "never give-up" fighting spirit.:eek:hyeah:
It's good to see the forum members are so passionate and live and giving a kick-ass replies, all to be taken, I'm sure on a positive note (constructive criticism) with a pinch of salt.:clapping::clapping:
 
Re: Projector Is Not The Only Thing To Look For

Very well said.

It is a matter of basic sensibility that one can not watch movies from such a close distance and this is something which people have realized long ago even in the most under developed countries.

V.



IMHO, sitting 6ft from a screen even with a 30deg viewing angle is too close. There is something about size/immersion which cannot be created just by sitting close to the image.

To extend this further, you could also sit at 3ft and use a 42in plasma. Will you get a theater experience? I seriously doubt it.

Heck, with a 3ft distance you can even put this setup in the bathroom, no dedicated HT room required:lol:. Ok Ok, I am stretching things now:)
 
Last edited:
Moderator,

In my case i have not got personal and related but if someone does so with me then i need to reply back in his/their coin. This is my spirit.

Indeed you have asked that we should not write more on this thread but if there is some new writing, i have to write, there is no choice, so please bear with me.

Thanks.

V.


I would like all participants to take a look at

http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/20540-usb-cable-type-ab-recommendation.html

There were heated discussions, both technical and non-technical. But no one got personal, no bad words, and the thread ended up being a encyclopedia on USB cables. That is the spirit you must have.
 
Manoj,

Further please be guided if room length is 6 feet, with 2nd round of family sitting at 3 or 4 feet, there is going to be a bigger problem which even THX will not be able to address as their boundary line is 6 feet.

The point is that tower speakers are being recommended as no problem so center speaker is going to be on floor level and there will be a screen gap from the wall so these 2 things will take eat another half a feet.

The result is very scary as the front family's viewing and sound has a further drop to 2/3 feet from already a petty 3/4 feet.

The watching of a movie from 2/3 feet with a 60 inches screen is going to be nothing short of getting into genius book of records.

V.
 
Last edited:
About the acoustics, huge absorption will be needed to absorb all the lower frequencies near the walls. That will make the room crowding. Better to use light absorbers and no sub at all in that case. :)

A lot of information Manoj. Could you explain the sentence I've highlighted as to why a sub should not be used in the specific case?
 
Last edited:
Captain,

The question was about the small room, where the max seating distance is approx 6 ft or so, meaning the seats are totally against the back wall. Now, as we know, smaller the room, bigger is the room gain. Meaning, lower frequencies will get a lot of boost. Top to that, the seating is right at the back wall, where the bass will be even louder. Adding any sub, will make the bass very louder after the room gain is added. If one plans to use absorption, it has to be placed on the back wall, the thickness needed of the traps will be more than a feet and it will even make the room more smaller.

If one uses a bookshelf, having output of -3db at 80 hz, that means, it will still have some output below that frequency. Its just that it is less than -3db average specified output. Couple that output with room gain and there could be some usable low frequency output, good enough for that room. Again, each room will respond differently, so there is no guarantee that it will work or the outcome will be desirable. That will depend upon the actual measurement of room. But it will be better than having a sub though. Sub will definitely make the low frequency response of such a small room boomy.
 
Manoj,



As THX recommends a 60" screen from seating distance of 6/9 feet, so the one's who are viewing from 6 feet is fine but quite a pity being at the border and not being able to reach even 7 feet though 9 feet is super impossible. While what happens to the other family member's who are going to view from 4 feet? It is simple there is no recommendation even by THX for the 4 feet viewing distance.

I need to assure that given a choice no one will like to sit closer and watch movies that too from a hair raising 4 feet.

As acoustics too are going to be a big issue with room length of 6 feet, it means problem all the way be it in terms of screen size or the sound quality etc.

In view to these and many other factors as threaded etc i am confident that to use a projector in such a room will be of nuisance value and a mother of compromise, be the factor in question.

V.

True. My proper answer to the question would be more likely be as below (although this subjective, so others will have different opinion)-
Can it be done? Technically Yes for the display part.
Is it a good way and can be recommended? Most likely not. If a friend asks me, I would say get a smaller size, more like 55" to be safe.
Would I do it? - Not at all. Audio and video are both equal important to me, so I would definitely not go that route.
 
Manoj,



I am having a 23 feet room length, with my sub woofer the room rattles quite a lot with action movies and moreover my show pieces in the room drop or move from it's original place and if this is not enough my small data projector's location moves slightly every know and then so i have to keep shifting it back around once a month. I wonder how alarming a sub woofer effect would be in a 6/8 feet room.

In view to these new emerging factors all the more it may be better to keep away from the projector. If still one goes for a projector it is going to be a huge factory of compromises.

V.

I think you have done mother of compromise in acoustics part and of-course setting of sub-woofer Otherwise nothing will rattle all are properly setup/tuned and placed in position.

No sub-wooofer is needed if a bass based good ported floor standers or bookshelves is bought ( another debate: I used to think that a lot of the bass energy from ported speakers was "pumped" out through the ports. This turned out to be a misconception still i read some AV forum debated. The ports actually regulate the pressure inside the cabinet. The bass comes from the cone. As long as air can flow freely in and out of the ports, the sound will not be compromised... am I right ???? )

A lot of compromise should be made in day to day life inorder to survive in basic life, otherwise you cannot survive. This is also like this:p

Your huge write up is not going to help stopping people to compromise little bit to enjoy the PJ and the fact it can be used at 6ft.:D
 
Last edited:
Back
Top