Which Media player and How?

[jadugar]

Hi Guys,

I had one old P4 PC at home for 9 yrs which used for veiwing movies, and abount 8 month back bought one AGP graphic card to help view downloaded HD movies however, my PC motherboard crashed and now

I happened to pass by this forum about few months back and recognized that Media Player or HTPC is the best way forward and was impressed by media streaming.

However I have few questions, but before that let me put down what I have and what I don't with me, for sake of brevity:

In living room:
a. 32" Sony Bravia HD TV
b. TV connection via set top box

In the bed room:
1. 22" LCD Samsung monitor
b. 2.1 spekers
c. Internet connection via LAN connection--casually used for my office laptop
d. I am planning to buy a new CPU within next few months

What I don't have:

1. I don't have a DVD player
2. I don't have a audio system for living room, I plan to built one

I wan't to build:

An hometheter and audio system in living room
PC setup in bedroom as HTPC and NAS server

• can anyone suggest me how do I go about building above two system?
• What media player do I need to buy to support NAS
• What audio system should I buy which would be compatable with that media player
• I have read somewhare that audio passthrough is delivered only via HDMI cables. So do I need to have a media player with two output port to get HD vedio and HD Audio at same time?
• Will my DVD player on bedroom PC be sufficient to seemlessly play movie on living room TV via NAS....

I actually plan to built these system piece at a time over next few months to keep into budget.

So if you guys can suggest me best path to go about it, It will help.

Also If you can suggest what I additional hardware I need to buy with lest budget to meet above requirement, it will help

 

[sam9s]

Whats your budget for all this ......

You can take some guidence from the HTPC and NAS setup I have built, from the links in my signature. Coming to few of your queries ...

can anyone suggest me how do I go about building above two system?

As I said follow my two thread specifically for almost the same purpose that you have. Shoot your queries and we shall try to address it as explicitly as possible.

What media player do I need to buy to support NAS

You either buy a media player OR build/buy an HTPC, no point in getting both. And all media players, HTPCs support all kinds of NAS. (I personally prefer HTPC)

What audio system should I buy which would be compatible with that media player

All audio systems are compatible with all media players. You just need to understand your requirements and ofcourse your budget. Usually people start with mid level HTiB like Onkyo 33xx series, which support all kinds of inputs and HD codecs. Once you have your HT, and the display, you built your HTPC or buy a Media player, which gets connected to the AVR of the HTiB and from there to your display. Your HTPC or Media player is connected to your NAS/or a generic Media Server via LAN (CAT 5e/6) cable from where it picks up all your Media.

I have read somewhare that audio passthrough is delivered only via HDMI cables. So do I need to have a media player with two output port to get HD vedio and HD Audio at same time?

No you just need one HDMI cable for passthrough.

Will my DVD player on bedroom PC be sufficient to seemlessly play movie on living room TV via NAS....

I doubt, unless your DVD player is advance enough to pick media via ethernet from your NAS. If you planning to have an HTPC or a media player, forget you DVD player.

Hope this would give you a start .... rest read my thread and shoot your queries ....

regards
Sammy

 

[jadugar]

Thanks Sammy for your attention and prompt response to my query...I will check your post for posting very specific question...

 

[jadugar]

Sam,

I am really amazed how you have built your HTPC...so cheep!!

few quesitons?

Have you configured it with NAS?

I want to have two system...Home theatere system in living room where I have 32" LCD for family entertainemtn. how do you deliver audio in living room,, Which audio system are you using to output HD audio passthrough....is the audio directly passed to TV?

second, new PC in bedroom which I can use to watch movies at leisure...

I have very low budget...I think you budget seems to b very close to mine....but If I built it piece by piece over next few months I may have some more flexibility.

So which system should I built first...and HTPC in living room and then new PC in bedroom or vice-verca...

 

[sam9s]

Yes ofcourse its connected to NAS. (also DIY by myself). This is how it should be

A bit of cabling needs to be done, thats all.

You have a NAS which acts as your central repository for all you media and place it somewhere where it can be accessed easily via Cat 6 cable.

You Bedroom PC acts as your HTPC, which would take media from your NAS via Ethernet. Bedroom PC is connected to the HT (AVR) in your living room via HDMI. yea I know the distance hindrance .... I hope they are not too far A 50feet HDMI can be had easily which can pass A/V signals easily without loosing the quality. (or if they are like too far say different floor for example, then we have to get Baluns, which basically would use your cat5 cable to carry HDMI signals....I will explain it later if at all you do require those). Then finally your Living room HT AVR will be connected to your LCD via HDMi again. You bedroom display can take input from DVI-to-HDMI connecter connected to the bedroom PC (since most of the display cards have only one HDMI out) .....

Hope I didnt make it complicated .....

As for me I have an Onkyo 6200 HTiB, which is connected to my HTPC. My LCD is connected to the Onkyo AVR.

 

[manoj.p]

just get a media streamer like wdtv plus, patriot box office, acryan etc. These cost about re 5000 or so and can connect to an NAS. Easy interface, no hassle of HTpc. Power efficient too.

 

[jadugar]

Manoj,

Thanks for you suggestion...I think it can be a good starting point..before I built a complete NAS system and HTPC combination....I did some research while going through various threads on these....Now I am just confused between two media players:

WD Live plus/hub and HiMedia 600b...how do they stand?

I have read somewhere that WD Live hub supports HDMI 1.4 and comes with built in 1tb hdd...is it a significant USP to buy WD Live Hub?

 

[sam9s]

Since when did an HTPC become a hassle???. PLzzzz if you wanna suggest do suggest some solid reason for Media Player over HTPC. Dont spread FUD

 

[manoj.p]

HTpc not a hassle compared to a media player? Let me think.

plan and research on components to be used
buy components
assemble or get it assembled from a good person
install os
install drivers / softwares
configure audio video and setup for quality
now you can play the media.
Can you just buy and use it?
what needs more research and work before it can play a file?
is it just a plug and play? Nope, not at all. That's what is called 'hassle'

over the time, you need to update software, patches, driver breaking etc. Also you need certainly knowledge of using pc to make use of it. Compare that to a media player.

and this is coming from a person who built the Htpc back in 2005, for DVD upscaling by ffdshow and what not. Used it till 2006. Then tried again in 2009 and still have it, but not using it. Been there, done that and settled for a media player. Don't think that others are just pulling things from thin air.

 

[sam9s]

HTpc not a hassle compared to a media player? Let me think.

plan and research on components to be used
buy components
assemble or get it assembled from a good person
install os
install drivers / softwares
configure audio video and setup for quality
now you can play the media.
Can you just buy and use it?
what needs more research and work before it can play a file?
is it just a plug and play? Nope, not at all. That's what is called 'hassle'

over the time, you need to update software, patches, driver breaking etc. Also you need certainly knowledge of using pc to make use of it. Compare that to a media player.

and this is coming from a person who built the Htpc back in 2005, for DVD upscaling by ffdshow and what not. Used it till 2006. Then tried again in 2009 and still have it, but not using it. Been there, done that and settled for a media player. Don't think that others are just pulling things from thin air.

OR buy something like Zotac Zbox Nano Plus HTPC, install openelec and you are good to go ...... with a much much much better machine than any media player ...

BTW if installing drivers and updates are hassle for you then I am sure a media player is all and only thing people in your category should go for. ....... you do need to upgrade the firmwares for your media players as well, install and configure YAMJ for some decent look n feel .........wonder if you even would do that.

In that sense probably we should not even suggest a Media Player, .... its a hassle ...

1. Install and setup firmware
2. Setup audio properties for passthrough
3. Setup wifi properties
4. Setup lan properties
5. Setup YAMJ ...
6. Download/Rip DVDs/BD to MKVs
7. For that download tools and learn how to rip convert.

I will suggest you a DVD player .... just buy/rent a DVD popin and you are good to go ...... no hassle ......

 

[Kittu]

OR buy something like Zotac Zbox Nano Plus HTPC, install openelec and you are good to go ...... with a much much much better machine than any media player ...

What is the cost of this mini htpc in India?

 

[manoj.p]

OR buy something like Zotac Zbox Nano Plus HTPC, install openelec and you are good to go ...... with a much much much better machine than any media player ...

BTW if installing drivers and updates are hassle for you then I am sure a media player is all and only thing people in your category should go for. ....... you do need to upgrade the firmwares for your media players as well, install and configure YAMJ for some decent look n feel .........wonder if you even would do that.

Installing drivers is always an hassle, especially the graphics ones. Especially the ATI/Nvidia ones. How many times have we seen that loading the driver breaks something else. Search the posts on internet about avivo de-interlacing and you will find out whats the state of it. Its even more complicated when you try to use the sound card out from HDMI.

In that sense probably we should not even suggest a Media Player, .... its a hassle ...

1. Install and setup firmware
2. Setup audio properties for passthrough
3. Setup wifi properties
4. Setup lan properties
5. Setup YAMJ ...
6. Download/Rip DVDs/BD to MKVs
7. For that download tools and learn how to rip convert.

I will suggest you a DVD player .... just buy/rent a DVD popin and you are good to go ...... no hassle ......

oh, please. Installing/setting up media player is less hassle than htpc. Ask anyone how much time do they spend on setting it up. It will be less than 25% that of HTPC, at least. And yes, I have done setting up jukebox, YAMJ and moviesheets on my media player. NO more hassle than setting it up on PC.

Frankly, I could not see how much benefit the HTPC offered than a media player. Main benefit for me was the video processing through either video card or ffdshow. But ever since I got DVDO Edge, that benefit was also gone. HTPC does offer more playability due to playing more formats, but the media players play almost all the format without problem. Can't beat the media player on ease of use, plug and play. That Zotac is an interesting concept, but still a long way to go to compare to hardware chip based decoding/processing of the media players.

No need to get all touchy and start calling people of spreading "FUD" or trying to group them in "Categories". I am yet to meet someone who says HTPC is less hassle than a media player. OP asked for which media player and I gave him the option.

 

[sam9s]

Installing drivers is always an hassle, especially the graphics ones. Especially the ATI/Nvidia ones. How many times have we seen that loading the driver breaks something else. Search the posts on internet about avivo de-interlacing and you will find out whats the state of it. Its even more complicated when you try to use the sound card out from HDMI.

Seems you had a hard time with drivers .... I have not seen drivers breaking anything apart from maybe drivers themselves. And avivo de interlacing ...lol ....seems you are still living in the worlds of 2005

oh, please. Installing/setting up media player is less hassle than htpc. Ask anyone how much time do they spend on setting it up. It will be less than 25% that of HTPC, at least. And yes, I have done setting up jukebox, YAMJ and moviesheets on my media player. NO more hassle than setting it up on PC.

aaaa so you see hassle in itself has a subjectivity now. For you media player is less hassle free then a PC, for some DVD player would be a much less hassle then a Media Player ... so ...... it all depends how much effort one is willing to put to get things done. More the effort/hassle better the result ...

Frankly, I could not see how much benefit the HTPC offered than a media player. Main benefit for me was the video processing through either video card or ffdshow. But ever since I got DVDO Edge, that benefit was also gone. HTPC does offer more playability due to playing more formats, but the media players play almost all the format without problem. Can't beat the media player on ease of use, plug and play. That Zotac is an interesting concept, but still a long way to go to compare to hardware chip based decoding/processing of the media players.

Oh plzzzz HTPC in all probability gives far better picture in terms of both quality and sound. even with a mid level hardware .... even if you do not have ffdshow (infact with XBMC you do not need anything) the pitcure quality is much sharper and better then any media player ..... and yes I did own a POHD before I decided to build an HTPC.

No need to get all touchy and start calling people of spreading "FUD" or trying to group them in "Categories". I am yet to meet someone who says HTPC is less hassle than a media player. OP asked for which media player and I gave him the option.

Well a DVD player is definitely far less hassle than a Media Player right so shall we start suggesting DVD players over media players. Just because you have few extra steps to set up a machine does not make it "a hassle" .... depends up how much effort one is willing to put and hence the 'categorization'

 

[sam9s]

What is the cost of this mini htpc in India?

Kittu you can call and check HERE[, the price in your city for the product..

 

[manoj.p]

Seems you had a hard time with drivers .... I have not seen drivers breaking anything apart from maybe drivers themselves. And avivo de interlacing ...lol ....seems you are still living in the worlds of 2005

yes, I was using avivo and then gave up on it. may be long time back, because I moved on to software based de-interlacing. AND yes, the drivers were the problems then and now also they have problems. GO read some forums. May be you never wanted to squeeze out the best possible quality out of the HTPC.

aaaa so you see hassle in itself has a subjectivity now. For you media player is less hassle free then a PC, for some DVD player would be a much less hassle then a Media Player ... so ...... it all depends how much effort one is willing to put to get things done. More the effort/hassle better the result ...

Its not subjectivity. OP asked for media player and here are the options. If he had asked for DVD player, I would have given him the option of DVD player. Its that simple. Just because you built the HTPC, does not mean everyone has to fall in line and do it.

Oh plzzzz HTPC in all probability gives far better picture in terms of both quality and sound. even with a mid level hardware .... even if you do not have ffdshow (infact with XBMC you do not need anything) the pitcure quality is much sharper and better then any media player ..... and yes I did own a POHD before I decided to build an HTPC.

Aha. Now we are talking. The picture quality in HTPC depends upon lots of things. Because there are scaling, de-interlacing filters, sharpness filters, and color space conversions involved. Most of it will either come from OS installed, graphics cards, driver installed etc. I have seen limitless threads where people ask why the picture quality sucks because they have one parameter or other wrong. Change one driver and the entire chain breaks. XBMC does not do any picture processing itself. Its an interface and most of the picture processing is done by directshow filters and or graphics cards (if you are using windows) If the setup is done properly, then yes, it will beat the quality of the media player, no doubt. But it still is hassle to get it right. Ask people here how much they spend time on getting the bit-perfect, unsampled, unmixed audio out of the sound card of HTPC.

Well a DVD player is definitely far less hassle than a Media Player right so shall we start suggesting DVD players over media players. Just because you have few extra steps to set up a machine does not make it "a hassle" .... depends up how much effort one is willing to put and hence the 'categorization'

I think I answered it above.
And one thing - when people don't have any valid arguments, then they come down to start name calling. I see where this is coming from.

 

[sam9s]

Its not subjectivity. OP asked for media player and here are the options. If he had asked for DVD player, I would have given him the option of DVD player. Its that simple. Just because you built the HTPC, does not mean everyone has to fall in line and do it.

Where does OP specifies he specifically requires a media player ...... ?????
And where did I specify that he should go only for an HTPC ...????

Aha. Now we are talking. The picture quality in HTPC depends upon lots of things. Because there are scaling, de-interlacing filters, sharpness filters, and color space conversions involved. Most of it will either come from OS installed, graphics cards, driver installed etc. I have seen limitless threads where people ask why the picture quality sucks because they have one parameter or other wrong. Change one driver and the entire chain breaks.
XBMC does not do any picture processing itself. Its an interface and most of the picture processing is done by directshow filters and or graphics cards (if you are using windows) If the setup is done properly, then yes, it will beat the quality of the media player, no doubt. But it still is hassle to get it right. Ask people here how much they spend time on getting the bit-perfect, unsampled, unmixed audio out of the sound card of HTPC.

man you are too paranoid ...... yes video quality does depend on lots of things but as an end user you dont need to take care of most of the things ... just install the latest GPU drives, a good user interface like XBMC and your are good to go ..... even with the basic default setting HTPC A/V quality easily surpasses even the best media players ..... not to forget the quality UI.

I think I answered it above.
And one thing - when people don't have any valid arguments, then they come down to start name calling. I see where this is coming from.

Buddy You have absolute no idea where I come from, don't judge, and I did not give you any name, yes I categorized you among the people who dont want "any" hassle/effort to get the desired result and I dont think I am wrong. The pro media player argument on the same basis confirms that ....

 

[sam9s]

BTW I just reread your post and came across this statement ...

XBMC does not do any picture processing itself. Its an interface and most of the picture processing is done by directshow filters and or graphics cards (if you are using windows)

And I went ..... XBMC is not just an interface, its a full video processing, player. How can you expect a player playing an encoded HD video without processing/decoding it. XBMC provides full support for DVXA2 as well, that provides an API for the hardware acceleration and that is done by XBMC itself, same as VDPAU for Linux........ its not just an interface ..... lol and you are asking where I come from ...

 

[venkatcr]

Installing drivers is always an hassle, especially the graphics ones. Especially the ATI/Nvidia ones. How many times have we seen that loading the driver breaks something else. Search the posts on internet about avivo de-interlacing and you will find out whats the state of it. Its even more complicated when you try to use the sound card out from HDMI.

Sam and Manoj, please cool down.

Let me add my own points as I have used a DVD Player, a Blu-Ray Player, a media player and an HTPC.

Agreed that setting up the HTPC was the toughest. But configuring what I wanted to buy took me half a day and it was a fun exercise. The little 'hassle' that a HTPC set up provides is far outstripped by the advantages it provides.

1. An HTPC is infinitely upgradeable for, say, 5 to 7 years. All other players have to be replaced. In an HTPC you can insert a new card for audio and /or video, and you have a new machine. As long as the MB is not affected, all other parts are easily replaceable.

2. I have not found drivers to be an hassle. The system is connected to the Net and it automatically updates itself.

3. Audio output through the HDMI of a graphics card is an hassle only as long as you don't know what is to be done. If you get the EDID correct, it works like a breeze.

4. A graphics card has far superior video processing capabilities than any other player, including the Oppo. Remember, a graphics card is meant for high graphics games that need a higher resolution and far higher rendering and refreshing capabilities. A FullHD resolution is a walk in the park for such processors.

5. Networking capabilities of a player is yet difficult and limited. A computer networks easily, and you can get a computer engineer to do that. That way you get far more support. Just try getting help to network a media or Blu-Ray player.

6. Keep you HTPC lean and simple, and you will find it's output far superior. With something like the new PowerDVD, you don't need any FFDShow or anything. It plays all media format without a hitch.

7. The sound and video from my HTPC beat the media player, DVD Player and Blu-Ray player.

One issue is remote control. I yet don't have one, and am using a wireless mouse. I dont use XMBC or such software. I use Windows to search for file/directories, locate the movie I want, and then load PoweDVD to play it. I also use IMDB to analyse which movie I want to see that day, if I have a large choice.

BTW, I have set my HTPC to play DVDs, media files, Blu-Ray, and HD-DVD. I am completely format agnostic. But that is another story.

Cheers

 

[sam9s]

1. An HTPC is infinitely upgradeable for, say, 5 to 7 years. All other players have to be replaced. In an HTPC you can insert a new card for audio and /or video, and you have a new machine. As long as the MB is not affected, all other parts are easily replaceable.

Agreed ....

2. I have not found drivers to be an hassle. The system is connected to the Net and it automatically updates itself.

Agreed, Current drivers are rarely a problem. The point was moot to begin with.

3. Audio output through the HDMI of a graphics card is an hassle only as long as you don't know what is to be done. If you get the EDID correct, it works like a breeze.

Agreed

4. A graphics card has far superior video processing capabilities than any other player, including the Oppo. Remember, a graphics card is meant for high graphics games that need a higher resolution and far higher rendering and refreshing capabilities. A FullHD resolution is a walk in the park for such processors.

Agree to the fullest ,.... thats what I was trying to explain. Even a low level HTPC A/V capabilities surpasses the best of media players out there.

5. Networking capabilities of a player is yet difficult and limited. A computer networks easily, and you can get a computer engineer to do that. That way you get far more support. Just try getting help to network a media or Blu-Ray player.

Agreed

6. Keep you HTPC lean and simple, and you will find it's output far superior. With something like the new PowerDVD, you don't need any FFDShow or anything. It plays all media format without a hitch.

Yep, not only PowerDVD, if you install XBMC, you need nothing to add. Just install XBMC, scan your media and you are good to play all the movies. Ofcourse if you want more you configure futher.

7. The sound and video from my HTPC beat the media player, DVD Player and Blu-Ray player.

......

As I said .......... Even a low level HTPC A/V capabilities surpasses the best of media players out there.

One issue is remote control. I yet don't have one, and am using a wireless mouse. I dont use XMBC or such software. I use Windows to search for file/directories, locate the movie I want, and then load PoweDVD to play it. I also use IMDB to analyse which movie I want to see that day, if I have a large choice.

mmmmm yea a physical remote is something one might miss, but can alwaya buy one to be used with XBMC. But I find the Android remote to be the easiest and the coolest remote to use with XBMC


...... To end I rest my case ....

 

[manoj.p]

Where does OP specifies he specifically requires a media player ...... ?????
And where did I specify that he should go only for an HTPC ...????
man you are too paranoid ...... yes video quality does depend on lots of things but as an end user you dont need to take care of most of the things ... just install the latest GPU drives, a good user interface like XBMC and your are good to go ..... even with the basic default setting HTPC A/V quality easily surpasses even the best media players ..... not to forget the quality UI.

The Video output from PC is not that straightforward out of the box. The PC outputs brightness levels at 0-255 by default. For video, you need 16-235. The first thing to do is update this, either in the player or using the video card in EVR mode (or don't remember whats the latest)
Then the PC colorspace - PC outputs in RGB. For HDTV recording, we need REC 709. Again we need to configure the video card to output it that way. Else, there is always this conversion from 709 to RGB in PC, and then RGB to 709 in the display. Some of the decoders used in the PC player tend to output internally in different colorspace, like YUV or YV12 and then converted by video card to RGB.
OOTB, the picture on PC looks sharp compared to most of the media players, no doubt. But its quite far off as far as colors are concerned, unless its setup properly. Take Media player Home Cinema, and see how many options are given to do the settings properly.

I am one of the people, for whom sharpness is only of the aspect of picture. The other aspects of picture for me are correct de-interlacing, correct 3:2 pulldown, correct black and white levels, accurate colors as possible. Heck, in 2006, I even ran the video output at 48 Hz to avoid framerate conversion.

Now, will it bother some people? Offcourse not. That's why quality is such a subjective term. You say its far better ootb and I can see flaws in it and those are in fact true. At least the media player chips are video based. So they may not have high end video post-processing but at least they output correct black and white levels and accurate colorspace. As for sharpness, it matters mostly with SD conversion. I am doubtful people need sharpness controls on 1080p content.

Buddy You have absolute no idea where I come from, don't judge, and I did not give you any name, yes I categorized you among the people who dont want "any" hassle/effort to get the desired result and I dont think I am wrong. The pro media player argument on the same basis confirms that ....

I am not judging you. In fact, you are the one who is judging me, by accusing to spread "FUD", categorizing, calling as stuck in 2005, calling paranoid etc. My comment was also not about your skills, knowledge of HTPC or PC for that matter. That where you come from idea was about why you calling me names and what I felt was that perhaps you ran out of arguments. If it felt otherwise to you, then I am sorry. But I think it would be prudent not to judge others in the first place.