Which SPeakers are right for me in 15K???

[heliumflight]

Hi Audiophile Gurus,

Looking to start out with a decent stereo setup without breaking the bank!

I have an integrated Bryston B 60 R- 60 WRMS @ 8 ohms and now need to buy speakers. My taste is Acoustic Research Suspension Sound as I like the New English sound. I really love that "old" and "warm" and "frequency bending" sound

Since I've given you my listening taste; any speaker brand that caters to my taste ... please let me know


Also, suggestions are most welcome.

 

[gobble]

You can try Wharfedale Diamond 8.2 or 9.2. The 8.2 is more clear and open but the 9.2 has better bass.

Cheers

 

[moserw]

Wharfedale 9.x are good especially the 9.6 if you are planning only a 2.0 setup, but would exceed the budget.

BS like Audioengine A5 too are very good, but come at 20K.

 

[Gurudristi]

Wharfedale.... very good speakers.. I also have a pair of Diamond 9.2, Diamond CS centre and DFS for the rear in my home theatre.... Excellent staging. Value for money.
You can contact them in Mumbai 022-23512836, 9820096760

 

[heliumflight]

Do the speakers sound "old" and "warm" and "frequency bending"?

Thanks a ton

Wharfedale.... very good speakers.. I also have a pair of Diamond 9.2, Diamond CS centre and DFS for the rear in my home theatre.... Excellent staging. Value for money.
You can contact them in Mumbai 022-23512836, 9820096760

 

[Gurudristi]

These are English designed speakers and sound "warm". They are able to cut costs since some of the series are now manufactured in China,
They sound excellent with flat response and are not overly bright nor sound plasticky.
I donot understand " Frequency bending" and therefore cannot comment.
In case , you are looking for only stereo sound, you could look at some of their floor standers. You can also lookup at their site Wharfedale > Home

 

[flanker.r]

What you are looking for when you refer to the AR Sound and describe as warmth, oldness or blending is actually the characteristic of the ARs acoustic suspension.

Wharfadale 9.x series or any other speaker that has a bass reflex port cannot give you that sound. The ARs have a signature sound to them primarily because they are a sealed enclosure design. The frequency response, impedance, frequency roll off and tonal characteristics determine the way the ARs sound and this has a lot to do with the enclosure design

I am not aware of any sealed enclosure designs that are currently available. People who watch the market closely may be able to guide you. Sealed enclosures require a bigger enclosure and by their very nature provide you with a 2nd order crossover at the low end

The AR2 series were one of the most expensive speakers available in the 70s and there are lots of people who swear by its ability. I have had the opportunity to listen to them sometime back and all I remember was that it was very pleasant and not at all fatigue inducing. I felt I could have listened to them for days together

If you are bitten by the AR bug there are not many speakers that are similar to them. They are not old English sound or new English sound. They sounded and still sound very very different from English speakers of those days and today

Strictly on a lighter note and not intending offence to anyone (Really and I truly mean it!)

PS: English speakers? I thought speakers would play any language you fed them! I wonder how some golden eared reviewer would refer to our home bred Chennai speakers Torvin or Craftel in a double blind test- Sounds too Tamil- Maybe they would be the only speakers that would reproduce the word Vaazhaipazham correctly. Can the Wharfadales and Polk Audio reproduce that word with the fidelity and microdynamics of Chennai speakers? Is there a specification in the frequency graph that tells us towards which language the speakers are biased?

What say chennai guys? Chennai speakerssukku O podalama?

 

[heliumflight]

Great ! So finally I know what I'm looking for - "A sealed enclosure design"....

 

[flanker.r]

Hold on heliumflight. Let's do a pre-flight check first. Don't come to conclusions so soon

If it was only sealed enclosure design that provides better fidelity we would not be having top speaker companies manufacturing ported designs, spending so much time, money and effort is'nt it?

Speaker design is a synergy and more akin to making a musical instrument than an electronic component. No single design or philosophy dominates here. It is filled with compromises and any designer makes these with complete knowledge (it is better for us to think that way!)

There are as many badly designed sealed enclosure systems as there are well designed ported ones and the converse is also true.

If the ARs were such iconic speakers there would have been a multitude of manufacturers who would have copied that design (of course they could have named the patented 'Acoustic suspension' as 'pneumatic suspension' or 'hydraulic suspension' or 'suspended suspension' and gotten around the legal issue). So why have'nt they. There is more to a speaker than just the enclosure design!

 

[heliumflight]

This is getting interesting. So keeping in mind my preference in music- acoustic suspension sound;mind what brand is the closet speaker that would probably cater to my taste, sealed design or vented.

Thanks a ton

Hold on heliumflight. Let's do a pre-flight check first. Don't come to conclusions so soon

If it was only sealed enclosure design that provides better fidelity we would not be having top speaker companies manufacturing ported designs, spending so much time, money and effort is'nt it?

Speaker design is a synergy and more akin to making a musical instrument than an electronic component. No single design or philosophy dominates here. It is filled with compromises and any designer makes these with complete knowledge (it is better for us to think that way!)

There are as many badly designed sealed enclosure systems as there are well designed ported ones and the converse is also true.

If the ARs were such iconic speakers there would have been a multitude of manufacturers who would have copied that design (of course they could have named the patented 'Acoustic suspension' as 'pneumatic suspension' or 'hydraulic suspension' or 'suspended suspension' and gotten around the legal issue). So why have'nt they. There is more to a speaker than just the enclosure design!

 

[murali]

Heliumflight,
Got your PM. I am not an expert on this subject and sorry, cannot offer much help here. All I know is that AR are vintage speakers, well reputed when they were in business, and for that matter, there are several vintage classics like Klipsch, Celestion etc etc. One thing you have to be careful is about the cone drivers of such old speakers getting worn out and make sure your get the right replacement in case.
But with all due respect, let us not forget that science and technology have improved in the last several decades and you have a heap of modern speakers to choose from. Don't forget, even the revival of turntables and analog recordings in the last few years have happened by better engineering and materials, and not too many still stick to the vintage stuffs any more. Wish you good luck in your quest.

> murali

 

[heliumflight]

Thank you so much for understanding my concern and replying back

So if there is an advancement in technology, then I'm sure there should also be a modern speaker that will cater to my listening taste, somewhat. Please specific model and from where I can purchase it.

Thanks a ton

 

[flanker.r]

I may not be able to help you choose a specific brand for 3 reasons:

1. I basically do not believe in 'Brands' (The primary reason)
2. I don't get paid by anyone for recommending any brand
3. All brands (ok. alteast most) have had their share of 'Complete mess up designs', 'Can be passed of to consumer designs' and 'Truly ground breaking designs'

Go out there and listen to as many speakers as you like. Pick up the one you think sounds good to you. Just be your own judge. If you like the ARs try to find one but keep in mind murali's words. I think it makes complete sense. It's most frustrating to have speakers that you like, know everyone likes, you love to see them and listen to them, only they wont play! Ensure you don't get into that position

Also the ARs being what they were command unrealistic prices today. In my humble opinion they truly are overpriced in the used marked. But if you find a good deal on a pair that is good to go I think you should pick them up as you already know how they sound and like them

All the best and sincerely hope your quest ends soon

 

[murali]

heliumflight, you seem to be caught up in no-man's land between vintage and modern stuff. 15K is not a lot of money to spend on speakers, and I believe you won't notice any significant differences among various speakers in this range, so as others have advised you, listen and choose what you like.
You will agree with me that HM's Ambassador car is still unbeatable in that price range if you want to be a rear seat passenger, load half a dozen people inside and stuff a tonne of luggage in its boot. No competition here from all the modern cars. But is that the car you want? Or, a modern driver friendly efficient reliable car? Or, look at that great advertisement of an adhesive they show in TV, a vintage bus loaded with more than 100 people, several hanging in mid-air. Can you do the same thing in a modern Volvo air-bus? Vintage stuff are not bad at all, I still use NOS tubes in my preamp and not the modern Chinese and Russian made tubes. It all depends on why and how you use. So decide and spend wisely. Good luck and goodbye.

> murali

 

[Gurudristi]

Strictly on a lighter note and not intending offence to anyone (Really and I truly mean it!)

PS: English speakers? I thought speakers would play any language you fed them! I wonder how some golden eared reviewer would refer to our home bred Chennai speakers Torvin or Craftel in a double blind test- Sounds too Tamil- Maybe they would be the only speakers that would reproduce the word Vaazhaipazham correctly. Can the Wharfadales and Polk Audio reproduce that word with the fidelity and microdynamics of Chennai speakers? Is there a specification in the frequency graph that tells us towards which language the speakers are biased?


On a lighter note again

When I say English designed speakers, I mean they were designed mainly for British homes (smaller rooms with lots of furnishings) While a US speaker like JBL or Polk Audio are designed with US homes in mind (bigger open rooms).

While I do agree that finally a speaker which can reproduce the most natural sounds would be the best without any bias towards any frequency or any language

 

[flanker.r]

Ya I completely understand what you meant. Was just joking and my loud thinking that was expressed was not pointed at any individual.

Just that phrases like 'Warm british sound' and 'danes don't lie' kinda sound so......... lo-fi. Looks like desperately trying to describe something when there is nothing to be described about them!

 

[square_wave]

Hi Heliumflight,
Got your PM.
I agree in principle to what Murali said. You are caught in a time warp. This is a common problem among audiophiles. They are used to a certain sound and cannot get out of it. Accurate sound has nothing to do with this. If you try to search for the old acoustic research infinite baffle sound among modern speakers which are more accurate sounding, you will be disappointed. As someone else mentioned, not all infinite baffle speakers sound the same. I have a friend who uses the Linn Ninka which is a sealed enclosure. It does not sound anywhere close to older English speakers. So sealed enclosure is not what you are looking for. You are looking for the AR sound.
There are only two options here:
1. Hunt for an acoustic research speaker among vintage circles. Re-furbish one and use it.
2. Open your mind to newer designs. Do some research/some listening and find a speaker which excites you.

 

[square_wave]

Ya I completely understand what you meant. Was just joking and my loud thinking that was expressed was not pointed at any individual.

Just that phrases like 'Warm british sound' and 'danes don't lie' kinda sound so......... lo-fi. Looks like desperately trying to describe something when there is nothing to be described about them!

Hi Flanker.
These terms came into circulation because there were a group of brands in the UK and US who used to voice the speakers in a certain way. Have you heard about the classic BBC dip which used to be followed by certain manufacturers in the UK ?
There used to be west coast and east coast sound within US speakers. West coast manufacturers, e.g. JBL and Altec, made loudspeakers with a hot high end. Whereas manufacturers in the New England area, e.g. Acoustic Research and KLH, made loudspeakers with a more muted high end.
I really dont know how much of these are still relevant in these modern times. Hi-end manufacturers have moved away from all these. Most hi-end loudspeakers sound more similar than different these days. Nowadays the camps are more like horns, single driver-full range, electrostatics , dynamic etc.. irrespective where they all originate from.

 

[Rem]

Heliumflight,

I do not know anything about the sound of the 70's and all that technical stuff but I can list out some speakers in and around the budget you have specified based on which you can audition and find your own choice.

As someone has mentioned wharfedale 9.1 and 9.2 would be within the budget other than that here is the list

Tannoy Mercury F1 Custom - around 15k
Dali Lektor 1 - around 20k
Mordaunt Short Avant 902i - around 13k
Monitor Audio Bronze BR2 - around 20k
Mission M33i - around 18k FLoorstander

Think you can audition these and make up your mind as to what exactly you want.

 

[audiodelic]

flanker and square wave nice info on the british/usa design types ...... thanks