Why NOS tubes are so special compared to newly manufactured Tubes

[stevieboy]

The RCA 45 globes are in the house and in the amp and singing sweetly. Superb sound well worth it. Sounds simply more expansive and airy and more detailed than the ST shoulder 45s. pic to follow by weekend...


Rajiv you'll positively love em, considering how close our tastes are.

 

[mahiruha]

Hi guys,
finally received a pair of Telefunken Ecc83s and a pair of Mullard Ecc83s yesterday. Telefunkens are from tctubes dynaco branded test as new smooth plates. Mullards are mullard branded with I63 code made in blackburn Britain obtained from ebay. I put the Telefunkens with lot of expectations and it sounded very clinical but I didn't find any magic in it. When I put the mullards I really enjoyed it. It really has excellent midrange and makes the sound very 3 dimensional. I think in my setup the way it presents music through single driver and vinyl combination the Mullards produces better synergy. The telefunkes although very good sounding but not producing the emotional attachment with the music. Not sure if other people have felt the same. I am just wondering since mullards are old used tubes so they might have broken in but Telefunkens needssome time to settle down. Normally what is break in time for new tubes?
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Mahiruha,

Congrats on the new buys! Couple of things, new tube does not mean brand new. It's been used but tests like new ie. still has tons of life yet. I'd be extremely surprised to see a NOS tube that hasn't been used. You rarely come across these, and when you do, they'd have original box and a grandson/son is selling them off cos they've been lying unopened since purchase. Very very rare. So your telefunkens are used but test high almost like new tubes. This is what the seller means. They won't get better as you play them, they'd need the same time to warm up compared to the mullards, they are clinical compared to the mullards. The mullards are simply magic. No two ways about it. Two complete ends of the spectrum but the telefunkens are quite neutral. If you like the mullards over the telefunkens you'll like the heerlen holland tubes with a delta symbol on them too. Not as magical a midrange but overall lively, with better bass.

If you want you could pick up a pair of 161 mullards, they are the earlier production shortplate versions before the 163s.

Regards
steve

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Steven,
that's right test as new doesn't really mean they are new. Actually in the word NOS the important letter is N which means New i.e the has never been used. Unfortunately what we buy as NOS are not really NOS are all used stuff but tests good. The telefunken's I got the labels on it are almost gone but the diamond logo is there so keeping my fingers crossed I just put it in the socket and it played music. Now the thing with clinical is like when I calibrated my TV and projector using video calibration methodology the picture was true as per colour bands but did I really like it not really so I just switched back to more inflated settings. I guess similar things happening with Telefunkes although I have planned to keep them in place for a week to see if I can spot any change in presentation. Mullards are really satisfying. Btw I was browsing the sites of Corrson and found they are selling some Bel ecc83s. Have you tried them. I am quite tempted to try them.
Corrson - India's only DIY Store for Hi-End Audio
So which tubes you are listening to these days?
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

Hehe yeah Mahiruha,

Sometimes truth is not so satisfying a little colouring goes a long way to a more satisfying experience Haven't heard a BEL ecc83 though I faintly remember viren telling me they were unreliable. But I've got BEL rectifiers and they're good so you could definitely try em out. I've got a BEL branded ecc83but it's actually a Siemens made in Munich tube.

Right now listening to the globe 45s, the BEL GZ34, Sylvania 5687s in the SET and I forget which tubes are in the phonostage cos haven't listened for a while. I think the telefunkens... Getting into Japanese fountain pens which I find utterly fascinating right now considering I have to write a lot now, picked up a couple this weekend so I'll probably be disposing of some ecc83s that I've got duplicates of to fund this new love...

Regards

 

[viren bakhshi]

Hi Stevieboy,

You really are well into the world of tube exploration! There are different levels of aural satisfaction to be found!

Music listening is definitely a more subjective experience than the visual arts. There is no image to focus on, just a sensory pleasure as the music unfolds. And so dependent on the sensibilities of the person listening. So, if a particular sound takes you closer to the music, I consider it more accurate for the listener ("accurate" - a much abused term in hifi lingo).

Mullards - you can probably bank on for any tube. There's a tonal purity and richness to their tubes, which other makes don't quite match. Why that should be I can only conjecture - maybe their engineers were music lovers as well, and regular concert goers. They strove to make reproduced sound close to live sound.

The BEL ECC83s are dissapointing in the variability of their gain. Too much of a difference between tubes. Also, there is a graininess in their sound. A Mullard completely decimates them!

Happy listening,
Viren

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Viren,

Yes, been exploring all the flavours at one go now disposing off and settling down with a few. It's pretty satisfying, I don't feel the urge to dissect music, don't listen to individual pieces of the music as separate broken down parts and the itch to upgrade hasn't reared its head for a very long time and I don't think it will for a long time to come either. Once you stop listening to details and connect emotionally with the music I think one tends to settle down. Then again I think this definitely rules me out as an audiophile

Overall very very satisfying. The globe 45s take the SET amp to a very different place. I've always found that with tubes the physical dimensions of the tubes have an effect on the presentation, larger glass envelope tubes have a more relaxed airy sound. Well worth investing in a pair for your personal listening pleasure or perhaps to show customers an optional sound signature.

Regards
steve

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Stevieboy,

You really are well into the world of tube exploration! There are different levels of aural satisfaction to be found!

Music listening is definitely a more subjective experience than the visual arts. There is no image to focus on, just a sensory pleasure as the music unfolds. And so dependent on the sensibilities of the person listening. So, if a particular sound takes you closer to the music, I consider it more accurate for the listener ("accurate" - a much abused term in hifi lingo).

Mullards - you can probably bank on for any tube. There's a tonal purity and richness to their tubes, which other makes don't quite match. Why that should be I can only conjecture - maybe their engineers were music lovers as well, and regular concert goers. They strove to make reproduced sound close to live sound.

The BEL ECC83s are dissapointing in the variability of their gain. Too much of a difference between tubes. Also, there is a graininess in their sound. A Mullard completely decimates them!

Happy listening,
Viren

Hi Viren,
thanks for sharing your take on tubes as well. The richness of sound Mullard produces is indeed very special. After my fruitful experiments with ecc83s I guess next logical step is to get a Mullard GZ34 rectifier for phonostage and let me see how it goes. After your feedback on BEL it is not a very good idea to try them out.
Thanks.

@Steven: Its good that you can do tube rolling in your amp but my Russian amp doesn't offer that flexibility. Its good for my pocket though Welcome to the world of fountain pens. For my writing I have always used fountain pens only other than exams where lot of stuff has to be written in short span of time. One note of caution though they need a very high burn in time so it is not a good idea to use many of them.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

Hehe good to have some sort of cap too on rolling

Thanks for the tip, yes fountain pens do take time to settle to your writing angle and style. Which fountain pens do you use? I've ordered a Pilot Namiki FA Falcon nib pen which is a flex nib which will allow me variation in stroke thickness and a Sailor Maki-e Fude nib which is a bent nib so I can get fine, medium and thick lines depending on angle I hold the pen at. I've also got three bottle of Pilot's Iroshizuku ink, blue, peacock green and sunset orange which have lovely variations in tonal colours which will complement the flex nib perfectly. Check this sample out http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_z6QrQKNUPEs/S8e0mj-qChI/AAAAAAAAAIY/2BbljSu_LVo/s1600/Words.jpg

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hi Steven,
that is a very nice looking pen. Are you into caligraphy? There are special pens available with different nibs. I have only one fountain pen as of now Waterman Expert Black GT which I have been using for last 7 years. I just love it.
Thanks.

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Mahiruha,

Nopes, closest was trying to re-create fonts in college on thermocol cutouts, but I hope to be able to do beautiful handwriting with practice. So in a couple of years anything I note down I'll be able to read later on and is something lovely to look at too. I forgot, the seller I picked up the pen from had a brush pen too for $2 so I ordered that too! Can't wait for next week now... tubes? huh what tubes...

regards

 

[sunder]

Hi Mahiruha,

Congrats on the new buys! Couple of things, new tube does not mean brand new. It's been used but tests like new ie. still has tons of life yet. I'd be extremely surprised to see a NOS tube that hasn't been used. You rarely come across these, and when you do, they'd have original box and a grandson/son is selling them off cos they've been lying unopened since purchase. Very very rare. So your telefunkens are used but test high almost like new tubes. This is what the seller means. They won't get better as you play them, they'd need the same time to warm up compared to the mullards, they are clinical compared to the mullards. The mullards are simply magic. No two ways about it. Two complete ends of the spectrum but the telefunkens are quite neutral. If you like the mullards over the telefunkens you'll like the heerlen holland tubes with a delta symbol on them too. Not as magical a midrange but overall lively, with better bass.

If you want you could pick up a pair of 161 mullards, they are the earlier production shortplate versions before the 163s.

Regards
steve

Hello stevieboy, thanks for the information. But it's said that, genuine vintage NOS tubes have chalky- fragile printing on the tubes which are highly priced and fake tubes have strong and detailed screen printing on the tubes which are lesser priced. Is there any difference in tonal quality between them? I have seen such varieties on ebay. Need guidance to select from such varieties. How about Brimar tubes? Are they equally good as Mullards? Can one go for Brimar who couldn't afford Mullard? Also please throw light on low gain and quiet preamp tubes. Why some tubes called as radio tubes? Please clarify for all my doubts.
Thank you,
Regards,
Sunder.

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Sundar,

Some of my NOS tubes, the printing has worn off and wears off on touching, some the printing is ok and solid. However you can make out new printing and old generally. Also check the tube factory markings to sift things out. A google will get you websites with factory markings and codes for each NOS tube. Yes there's a tonal difference between new and NOS tubes. As far as Brimar as good as Mullard goes no tube is as good as any other. There are different sound signatures. Radio tubes are those used in old radios and quiet tubes are ones that have been screened on a test machine for low noise especially useful in low gain level applications like a phono amp which has to amplify low level signals to a normal line level.

The only new production tubes I'd personally buy are from Emission labs.

Regards

 

[sunder]

Hi Sundar,

Some of my NOS tubes, the printing has worn off and wears off on touching, some the printing is ok and solid. However you can make out new printing and old generally. Also check the tube factory markings to sift things out. A google will get you websites with factory markings and codes for each NOS tube. Yes there's a tonal difference between new and NOS tubes. As far as Brimar as good as Mullard goes no tube is as good as any other. There are different sound signatures. Radio tubes are those used in old radios and quiet tubes are ones that have been screened on a test machine for low noise especially useful in low gain level applications like a phono amp which has to amplify low level signals to a normal line level.

The only new production tubes I'd personally buy are from Emission labs.

Regards

stevieboy, thank you. Sometimes I could see that strong tested tubes are sold comparatively lesser price, only because of worn off the printing. Likewise, little weaker tubes with good lettering, sold for fancy price.
Regards,
sundar.

 

[murali_n]

Hi,

Have been testing my Tube pre (assembled Conrad Johnson PV-10a clone) with the Telefunken tubes (ECC 82/ 12AU7) in the Linestage & I should say that it never sounded so good earlier. Though there is a issue with the Phono stage, for 12AX7 or 5751 the JAN-GE and RCA tubes sound very good.

They sound better than the Electro-Harmonic new gen tubes.

N.Murali

 

[arindamcc]

My first NOS purchase BEL 12AT7WA from Turkey.They are like brand new..

The BOX

BEL vs Electro-Harmonix

 

[greenhorn]

I must be the odd one out here. I have an little bear P3, which came with chinese 6n3's. the FM who was the original owner was kind enough to share some JAN GE 5670's with them, and I bought some Russian military 6n3's. Honestly I have not be able to notice any difference swapping them out. I have had similar experiences rolling op amps, and stick to the 5532 these days.

Perhaps my ears are too wooden ?