Why People hate Bose

[arun malur]

Have been following this Bose bashing not only in this thread but also in earlier ones. I have a Wave system bought about five years ago, which I find is the most versatile product purchased till now. It's so convenient one can listen to music on the go without the hassles of switching on CD player, Amp etc etc. Am also using it with my Sony LED TV(which has a shitty audio with Tata Sky HD) and the bass, where required is heard to be believed.

I am not sure whether all the posters have really owned a Bose system or just commenting after a brief audition in the showroom, but, I, for one, am really a happy owner especially with the Wave.

 

[gobble]

Have been following this Bose bashing not only in this thread but also in earlier ones. I have a Wave system bought about five years ago, which I find is the most versatile product purchased till now. It's so convenient one can listen to music on the go without the hassles of switching on CD player, Amp etc etc. Am also using it with my Sony LED TV(which has a shitty audio with Tata Sky HD) and the bass, where required is heard to be believed.

I am not sure whether all the posters have really owned a Bose system or just commenting after a brief audition in the showroom, but, I, for one, am really a happy owner especially with the Wave.

FWIW at least I am glad you did not confuse Bose bashing for Bose User bashing and hide under the bed :clapping:

--G0bble

 

[jaudere]

Have been following this Bose bashing not only in this thread but also in earlier ones. I have a Wave system bought about five years ago, which I find is the most versatile product purchased till now. It's so convenient one can listen to music on the go without the hassles of switching on CD player, Amp etc etc. Am also using it with my Sony LED TV(which has a shitty audio with Tata Sky HD) and the bass, where required is heard to be believed.

I am not sure whether all the posters have really owned a Bose system or just commenting after a brief audition in the showroom, but, I, for one, am really a happy owner especially with the Wave.

I don't know which wave product you are talking about. The taller one "Acoustic wave music system II" sounded really good to me. The flat one "Bose wave music system" sounded like boombox to me with poor,unnatural bass and bloated in lower mid range. I have heard both the products side by side in show room. However the one which I liked, costs 67.3k. I have equally good sounding (actually it is better sounding but let us say equally well sounding) component system with Marantz DVD player, Marantz amplifier and ventronic bookshelves with stands built at 11k+17k+10k+9k=47k. Rest 20k I can spend on buying music itself.

So I am not going to spend 67k just to get the system to home to see how it sounds.I have to base my buying decision on what I hear in show room.
If I hear Sony and then Bose, I will definitely buy Bose because it is better than Sony. But If I hear Sony,then Bose and then Marantz (or NAD or CA), I am not going to buy Bose.

The present deal (Marantz eletcronics+Quad 11L2) that is going on on the forum betters that price and the sound IMHO.

As I said, the sound quality is good but price is too high at least for this Acoustic wave music system II at least from my perspective
Their own 301 speakers(17k) sound better with denon amp(18k) and simple philips dvd player.


.

 

[rallynut]

This coming from a previous owner/ user of Bose products:

We have had the Direct/ Reflecting 301 speakers (1st gen, circa 1980s?) as part of our Sony component system then in Germany. Though i was quite young, i still remember how good they sounded to my ears then, listening to LPs of The Beatles, Thriller, Kid Creole, Symphonies of Mozart, among few others.

Of course, i had no inkling of what audio was all about, and yet one could make out in their limited exposure, "better" sonics. This was an era when Bose had just started on their "premium" range of audio products for the "discerning" listener :indifferent14:.

Recently, when working in the Maldives, i used their Companion III series II 2.1 for a good year and half, was more than satisfied for my kind of usage. Again, this was the time when i obsessively trawled HFV for 'gyaan' , hadnt even become a member on the forum.

Post that, i have been lucky to sample 'nuances' in sonics, thanks to the immense knowledge imparted on this forum, listening to some fantastic setups, meeting some incredible people. Looking back, all i can say is, the biggest problem with Bose products is that they offer very little value to me. This is said keeping in mind that the price one pays for their products is seldom justified IMHO. Hence the "premium lifestyle" tag.

That said, their Wave radio and Sound dock do impress, for what their purpose is. Again, pricing, value???

Like Jaudere mentioned, if i had that money to spend, the Marantz/ Quad combo offer in HFV is :licklips: !!! FAR MORE VALUE, IMHO !!!

Cheers

 

[arun malur]

@Gobble:
Your tongue-in-cheek comments are really amusing!!!

@Jaudere & Rallunut:
What I have is the smaller one (flat) and had paid about 33 k and I do own a Marantz CD player - SA15S1 and Marantz Amp. along with Quad 12L2, and the musical quality between them can't be compared. Have specifically mentioned for a quick listen, this system is extremely good so also for TV watching.

Nevertheless, I am satisfied with the product and that matters to me.

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Having spent a considerable amount of time reading through most of this thread, I wish to reiterate my dislike for Bose products. And I'll try and explain why.

To start with, the term "audiophile" does not apply to me, though a few of my friends use that to describe me. I love music and I love to listen to it as the producers intended it to be heard. I am therefore not into "post production" tweaking of signals and frequencies. For that matter, I am not into anything "fidgital" (that's what I refer to digital music and it's processors to since it fidgets with the natural, or in this case the analogous aspects of sound). I therefore listen to cassette tape and vinyl. Yes, I do own CDs and MP3. I use those media for when I have a party when listening to music is not a priority.

What Bose (and other digital hi-fi equipment manufacturers) does is that it converts the natural wave into bits and bytes. "Fidelity" itself is lost there. If we go back to our basic physics, we might remember that sound is basically produced when air is disturbed (or something to that effect). Now if you were proposing to your girlfriend in your own voice and she instead insisted that you've got to sound like Barry White, that just wouldn't be you right?

Everything in between the master tape and the ears is just the medium. Therefore I believe that notebooks and thinkpads and i pods etc (to start with) are just not what give you hi-fi. They give you digi-fi. Not hi-fi. From there and down the line to your cables, amps and speakers, everything else is just an extension of your source.

If you read my signature, you will see the two cartridges I am using for my TTT. (that's transcription turntable to you). I recently put the V15 on and I'm never going back to the M97. Why? It just sounds "truer".

Part of my job in a music store was to decide the playlist for the week. We had a Bose AM5, I think in that store. And consumers would walk in look around, see the speakers and nod their heads and say, "wow you guys have Bose!" We sent this off for service and put in a Sonodyne and our regular consumers said "wow! these Sonodynes sound as good as the Bose!"

I am also notorious as a stereophile. (I just invented that word). I have two ears. And I like to listen to my music that way. I will not increase or decrease the bass, mid and treble setting beyond "ten o'clock" or "two o'clock" on my amplifier. I am loath to listen to music in a "cathedral", "dance hall", "stadium" setting. If I want to listen to it that way, I will go there to listen to it.

Right now I'm trying to attain audio nirvana by wanting to be able to listen to that sharp burst of sound that George Martin put at the end of Sgt. Pepper's. I even subjected my ex-wife's dog to that sound by tying it up in front of the speaker. No go. It was an Indian pressing and I think they left that bit out. Anyone have a UK pressing of this album? That means getting married again to a woman who owns a dog, or getting a new dog. Sort of like Bose vs. the rest of audio-dom, right?

To sum up my loathing of Bose (and other digital media), you ultimately end up listening to signals as opposed to sound.

PS. Is this going to start and analogue vs. digital war thread?

 

[jaudere]

Thats a different take altogether.
@Arun: if you are using 33k system for quick listen,you must be related to kuber(god of money)
For a quick listen I use philips mcd177 micro system.
Anyway it takes less than 15 sec to put on my regular stereo set up. More time is spent in changing cd. I have ample time. So i still use marantz based system for quick listen.
Philips comes into play when i become lazy enough to go into the other room or if kids are playing in that room.

 

[thatguy]

What Bose (and other digital hi-fi equipment manufacturers) does is that it converts the natural wave into bits and bytes. "Fidelity" itself is lost there.

Tall claim. Can you back that up with some real data? SNR or THD or any other measurement of vinyl playback vs CD or SACD?

It is one thing to claim that one likes vinyl. Quite another to claim that vinyl is more accurate than a digital recording.

If we go back to our basic physics, we might remember that sound is basically produced when air is disturbed (or something to that effect).

And your point is?

 

[gobble]

If we go back to our basic physics, we might remember that sound is basically produced when air is disturbed (or something to that effect).

And your point is?

Going by the past history of flaming wars in various threads on HFV, This conversation is making me... mentally disturbed! Sigh! :sad:
Er ... What is basically produced when one is mentally disturbed.

I even subjected my ex-wife's dog to that sound by tying it up in front of the speaker. No go. It was an Indian pressing and I think they left that bit out. Anyone have a UK pressing of this album? That means getting married again to a woman who owns a dog, or getting a new dog.

Usually the one that makes the mistake of marrying that kind of woman becomes a dog - sometimes her second dog, usually less privileged than the furry first one (who gets to sleep in her bed every night!). hyeah:

PS: That other dog incidentally, never gets to hear "not tonite honey, I've got a headache from all the loud sound you blasted from the stereo..." or a similar trite excuse.

Warning: No allusion is made to anybody you know or a living person, that kind of woman is meant and implied as a generic comic stereotyping.

--G0bble

 

[jaudere]

Going by the past history of flaming wars in various threads on HFV, This conversation is making me... mentally disturbed! Sigh! :sad:
Er ... What is basically produced when one is mentally disturbed.




Usually the one that makes the mistake of marrying that kind of woman becomes a dog - sometimes her second dog, usually less privileged than the furry first one (who gets to sleep in her bed). hyeah:

PS: No allusion to anybody you know, that kind of woman is meant and implied as a generic comic stereotyping.

--G0bble

Gobble, you have this amazing
Capacity to dig things out somewhere from deep and then put some interesting comments on that. I dont know in what context finyl vinyl wrote it but the comment was absolutely hilarious.
Just remembered a story of Akbar-Birbal.: A donkey smells tobacco plant and goes forward without eating it.
Akbar:"see Birbal, even donkey does not eat tobacco."

Birbal(who loved to chew tobacco):"After all it is a donkey! It wont eat tobacco"

Conclusion: dont form inference based on behaviour of an animal.

This story is out of context here but when I read about exposing a dog to music & deciding quality of CD Writing based on that, I immediately remembered it.

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Tall claim. Can you back that up with some real data? SNR or THD or any other measurement of vinyl playback vs CD or SACD?

It is one thing to claim that one likes vinyl. Quite another to claim that vinyl is more accurate than a digital recording.



And your point is?

Do your ears process data or sound? The term "transcription" roughly means to reproduce what was written. Hence it is my take that what the musician has recorded is what a medium tries to convey. Why analogue sources are referred to as analogue as because it again tries to be "as similar" to it's source.

I did not say that analogue is more accurate than digital. I said it tries to get as close to the performance.

And my point is that Your Music Will Vary. It explained my stance and as to why I do not like Bose or Fidgital systems. Nothing else

 

[gobble]

Gobble, you have this amazing
Capacity to dig things out somewhere from deep and then put some interesting comments on that. I dont know in what context finyl vinyl wrote it but the comment was absolutely hilarious.
Just remembered a story of Akbar-Birbal.: A donkey smells tobacco plant and goes forward without eating it.
Akbar:"see Birbal, even donkey does not eat tobacco."

Birbal(who loved to chew tobacco):"After all it is a donkey! It wont eat tobacco"

Conclusion: dont form inference based on behaviour of an animal.

This story is out of context here but when I read about exposing a dog to music & deciding quality of CD Writing based on that, I immediately remembered it.

Thanks .. but Whoa! I tried that animal experiment too!! hyeah:

I played a kittens meow on my "Hi-Fidelity" Rig to a Tom Cat that made himself the landlord of my place a few years back. He didn't even glance in the direction of the stereo or appear notice anything interesting...

Guess that makes us both (FinylVinyl & Me) the real donkeys ...? But at least we are in the same league as Akbar

--G0bble

PS: Good story of Birbal, a very amusing read.

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Going by the past history of flaming wars in various threads on HFV, This conversation is making me... mentally disturbed! Sigh! :sad:
Er ... What is basically produced when one is mentally disturbed.




Usually the one that makes the mistake of marrying that kind of woman becomes a dog - sometimes her second dog, usually less privileged than the furry first one (who gets to sleep in her bed every night!). hyeah:

PS: That other dog incidentally, never gets to hear "not tonite honey, I've got a headache from all the loud sound you blasted from the stereo..." or a similar trite excuse.

Warning: No allusion is made to anybody you know or a living person, that kind of woman is meant and implied as a generic comic stereotyping.

--G0bble

Gobble is that a question or a statement (re mentally disturbed)?

That's why the allusion to the fact that she is my ex-wife. maybe I should list why my TTT are better than a woman.

1) My TTT don't mind being played with other styli as long as they are fine
2) MyTTT don't mind if I compare them with others
3) My TTT don't mind if I bring other TTTs home or get new ones
4) My TTT don't mind when I swap it for others
5) My TTT usually makes music
6) My TTT can be played anytime of day or night
7) My friends aren't shy about expressing how they like my TTT

care to add?

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Thanks .. but Whoa! I tried that animal experiment too!! hyeah:

I played a kittens meow on my "Hi-Fidelity" Rig to a Tom Cat that made himself the landlord of my place a few years back. He didn't even glance in the direction of the stereo or appear notice anything interesting...

Guess that makes us both (FinylVinyl & Me) the real donkeys ...? But at least we are in the same league as Akbar

--G0bble

PS: Good story of Birbal, a very amusing read.

Oh I like my tobacco. But I'll settle for being an ass and Akbar any day. Birbal is too digital for me. Go figure

 

[jaudere]

Birbal is too digital for me.

Now that statement really went above my head. Birbal is digital because he has more wits or Akbar is analogue because he based his conclusion on an animal?

By the way the sound produced by digital source is still analogue when it reaches our ears.
Some basic query. Even when one records something on a vinyl or tape, it is still not in original form of sound. The alternate dense and rare areas in air( i mean sound waves) are not stored as air with those areas. It may not be in digital bits but it is still not air. So it is just a different way to store data but it is still a storage which is not in original form. So why it is supposed to be closer to the original?

By the way what is full form of TTT? I used to say TT For turn table.

 

[thatguy]

I did not say that analogue is more accurate than digital.

You did. You said '"Fidelity" itself is lost there.' when referring to digital music reproduction. Here is the definition of 'fidelity' (Merriam-Websters):

Definition of FIDELITY
1
a : the quality or state of being faithful b : accuracy in details : exactness
2
: the degree to which an electronic device (as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (as sound or picture)

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Now that statement really went above my head. Birbal is digital because he has more wits or Akbar is analogue because he based his conclusion on an animal?

By the way the sound produced by digital source is still analogue when it reaches our ears.
Some basic query. Even when one records something on a vinyl or tape, it is still not in original form of sound. The alternate dense and rare areas in air( i mean sound waves) are not stored as air with those areas. It may not be in digital bits but it is still not air. So it is just a different way to store data but it is still a storage which is not in original form. So why it is supposed to be closer to the original?

By the way what is full form of TTT? I used to say TT For turn table.

Birbal is too clinical, therefore digital. Too sharp, too crisp overdone etc.

When recordings from an analogue or digital source reach our ears they are analogue. Undeniable fact. But it's the medium to me that makes the difference. I JUST LIKE ANALOGUE BETTER.

TTT is transcription turntable. I had the pleasure of interacting with one JK Maitra who happened to be head engineering and production at Saregama and was trained at EMI and it was he who informed me that machines like the Garrard 301's and 401's were called TTT's. His attention was diverted before I could get him to elaborate.

I'm trying to persuade him to do a session for us Bangalore guys on various aspects of putting out an album. If it works out, perhaps you'd like to attend?

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

You did. You said '"Fidelity" itself is lost there.' when referring to digital music reproduction. Here is the definition of 'fidelity' (Merriam-Websters):

Definition of FIDELITY
1
a : the quality or state of being faithful b : accuracy in details : exactness
2
: the degree to which an electronic device (as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (as sound or picture)

Can a digital medium reproduce the ambiance of a room? Have you been to a recording studio? Have you "mic'd" a band for a live performance?

It is the state of being faithful. It is the DEGREE, yes. It is not whether it is more accurate than digital.

I'll give you an example of when I was in a recording studio many years ago. I played bass in a band and I had a friend who had this 48 channel digital Yamaha mixer in the studio. At that time we were all enamoured by digital. When we were setting up, he asked that the guitars and bass be plugged into amps and that he would place these mics at certain distances from the amps. When I say amps here, I'm talking stage amps.

We recorded a few tracks with mic'd amps and guitars that were fed directly through a DI box to the mixer. THE AMBIANCE that the mic captured encompassed the entire studio's ACOUSTICS. Which is quite different to what a DI did. The DI sounded cleaner, sharper, crisper, but just didn't capture the room.

You will not understand analogue as I will not understand digital. I was only trying to explain why I do not like Bose and as an extension digitally processed sounds. Tell me, would you prefer to listen to a REAL grand piano or an electronic piano? Take a listen. I am not judging. I asking your ears to judge.

 

[Finyl Vinyl]

Oh by the way, does Bose position itself as an audio company or lifestyle products company? Huge difference. Maybe Malvai could be induced into joining this disco. (Short for discussion)

 

[thatguy]

I was just questioning only one point. The claim that vinyl is more accurate than digital. If you like the vinyl sound, more power to you. But when you start talking about things that can be measured, you should be more careful about making claims (Fidelity can be measured).

You will not understand analogue as I will not understand digital.

If you are making wild assumptions, please make them about yourself. You don't know me.