Wooden Vs Carpeting for HT

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micjak77

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Hey All,

Just need to know your thoughts on what works best for HT acoustically. Is it the wall to wall carpeting or wooden laminate flooring. Carpeting as you all know is high maintenance and doesnt look as good as a wooden floor. I am very keen to go for wooden but some people I talked to suggested going wtw. Whats your say.
 

unleash_me

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Wooden flooring might make the surface very reflective while carpeting might make it dead. Having said that - it really depends on your priorities.

If it??s a dedicated HT, then carpeting is the way to go as it absorbs the sound waves and hence minimizes any bouncing off.

On the other hand, let??s say if it??s a multi purpose room/living room which doubles as your HiFi listening also, IME its better to go for wooden flooring with a think carpet/rug as desired.

Best Regards.
 

micjak77

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Hey Unleash ...I have been mulling over the same idea that is to go for wooden flooring and dumping some rugs in there. Some people I have spoken to suggested that if walls are treated (acoustic panels) then its OK to go for wooden else stick to carpet. Whats you take on that. I would like to know that if I can derive the same quality of acoustics with wooden/ rug combo as against on w-t-w carpet.
 

venkatcr

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Hey Unleash ...I have been mulling over the same idea that is to go for wooden flooring and dumping some rugs in there. Some people I have spoken to suggested that if walls are treated (acoustic panels) then its OK to go for wooden else stick to carpet. Whats you take on that. I would like to know that if I can derive the same quality of acoustics with wooden/ rug combo as against on w-t-w carpet.

Micjak:

One way is to line the whole floor with wooden flooring. You then locate the exact spots where the sound is reflected from, and cover that area with a rug. There is a thread where I have explained how you can locate these reflective spots.

cheers
 

micjak77

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Micjak:

One way is to line the whole floor with wooden flooring. You then locate the exact spots where the sound is reflected from, and cover that area with a rug. There is a thread where I have explained how you can locate these reflective spots.

cheers

Venkat, can you give me the path to that thread you mentioned
 

venkatcr

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Surrealistix

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I was reading somewhere that for a Stereo setup - it's good to leave the floor reflective and have the first reflection point on the ceiling dead. This apparently increases the height of the sound stage.

Any thoughts anyone?
 

odyssey

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Hi
I dont remember ever seeing that its good to to leave the floor reflective, however, it doesnt matter so much (as much as side wall reflections both 1st and 2 ones). Treating celing is definitely recommended (above the speakers)
cheers
 

micjak77

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Hi
I dont remember ever seeing that its good to to leave the floor reflective, however, it doesnt matter so much (as much as side wall reflections both 1st and 2 ones). Treating celing is definitely recommended (above the speakers)
cheers

So what can we do to curb the side wall reflections. I ve spoken to Armstrong fellas here they suggest panels which are quite expensive. Is there a budget solution to this.
 

venkatcr

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So what can we do to curb the side wall reflections. I ve spoken to Armstrong fellas here they suggest panels which are quite expensive. Is there a budget solution to this.

One of the most common inexpensive and methods is to make the panels yourself with the help of a carpenter. Take a plywood some 2 to 25. feet wide. The length should be 75& of your wall height. Stick 1/4 inch glass wool on top of the plywood, and cover the whole thing with a cloth of your choice. You can also mount corner liners to beautify the panel, like it is done in photo frames. The thickness of the glass wool can be varied to suit your choice. Some people also prefer to nails buttons in the middle like they do in sofas. Glass wool is available nowadays as sheets.

You now have your panels. You can now mount the panels on the points of reflection on your walls.

For the ceiling, you can hang the same panels as shown below.



The width of the panel can again be 75% of the width of your room. Unless your room is very wide, you need just panels mounted one behind the other based upon your reflection points. It is advisable to mount the panels at a slight angle facing the loudspeakers.

To mount the panels you can use a simple chain on the four corners of the panels. Or you can use the aluminum raisers that are used for false ceilings.

Cheers
 

micjak77

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Hey Venkat,

I am not sure if I can do this without the help of an expert hand. Anyways the information provided is real good. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

venkatcr

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Sorry for some typos.

The sentence 'Take a plywood some 2 to 25. feet wide. The length should be 75& of your wall height' should read as

'Take a plywood some 2 to 2.5 feet wide. The length should be 75% of your wall height'

Cheers
 

giddavr

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One of the most common inexpensive and methods is to make the panels yourself with the help of a carpenter. Take a plywood some 2 to 25. feet wide. The length should be 75& of your wall height. Stick 1/4 inch glass wool on top of the plywood, and cover the whole thing with a cloth of your choice. You can also mount corner liners to beautify the panel, like it is done in photo frames. The thickness of the glass wool can be varied to suit your choice. Some people also prefer to nails buttons in the middle like they do in sofas. Glass wool is available nowadays as sheets.

You now have your panels. You can now mount the panels on the points of reflection on your walls.

For the ceiling, you can hang the same panels as shown below.



The width of the panel can again be 75% of the width of your room. Unless your room is very wide, you need just panels mounted one behind the other based upon your reflection points. It is advisable to mount the panels at a slight angle facing the loudspeakers.

To mount the panels you can use a simple chain on the four corners of the panels. Or you can use the aluminum raisers that are used for false ceilings.

Cheers

If u use a plywood backing u will be introducing a reflective surface again.

I have made the BASS absorbers very cheaply with 2" x 4" wooden reefers cut to length, nailed to form a frame. the 2" thick fibreglass sheet is cut to size placed inside the frame. For the front I have used speaker grill cloth which is the best material for acoustic transmission and looks great too. The fibre glass sheet is held in place with nylon thread tied across crisscross fashion on the back. 4 3inch nails at the back corners provide 2" standoff from walls for increased performance.

see RealTraps - Acoustics Information for great DIY info.

giddavr - Page 1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting will give you some idea. of what I have done.

gvr
 

giddavr

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Hi
I dont remember ever seeing that its good to to leave the floor reflective, however, it doesnt matter so much (as much as side wall reflections both 1st and 2 ones). Treating celing is definitely recommended (above the speakers)
cheers

HARD FLOOR, SOFT CEILING

The following is from an exchange that took place in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup in May, 2003:

Bill Ruys asked: Why it is recommended to have bare (un-carpeted) floors in the studio? One web site I visited mentioned that a bare floor was a prerequisite for the room design with diffusors and absorbers on the ceiling, but didn't say why. I'm trying to understand the principal, rather than following blindly.

Paul Stamler: Carpet typically absorbs high frequencies and some midrange, but does nothing for bass and lower midrange. Using carpet as an acoustic treatment, in most rooms, results in a room that is dull and boomy. Most of the time you need a thicker absorber such as 4-inch or, better, 6-inch fiberglass, or acoustic tile, and you can't walk around on either of those. Hence the general recommendation that you avoid carpet on the floor and use broadband absorbers elsewhere.

Lee Liebner: the human ear is accustomed to determining spatial references from reflections off of side walls and floor, and a low ceiling would only confuse the brain with more early reflections it doesn't need. Everywhere you go, the floor is always the same distance away from you, so it's a reference that your brain can always relate to. Top

John Noll: Reasons for having wood floors: they look good, equipment can be rolled easily, spills can be cleaned up easily, provide a bright sound if needed, sound can be deadened with area rugs.

Ethan Winer: In a studio room, versus a control room, a reflective floor is a great way to get a nice sense of ambience when recording acoustic instruments. Notice I said reflective, not wood, since linoleum and other materials are less expensive than wood yet sound the same. When you record an acoustic guitar or clarinet or whatever, slight reflections off the floor give the illusion of "being right there in the room" on the recording. It's more difficult to use a ceiling for ambience - especially in a typical home studio with low ceilings - because the mikes are too close to the ceiling when miking from above. And that proximity creates comb filtering which can yield a hollow sound. So with a hard floor surface you can get ambience, and with full absorption on the ceiling you can put the mike above the instrument, very close to the ceiling, without getting comb filtering.

Dave Wallingford: I've always preferred wood floors for a few reasons: 1) It's easier to move stuff around, 2) You can always get area rugs if you need them, And the main reason: 3) Pianos sound like crap on carpet.

gvr
 

Surrealistix

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I think I had read the same post, upon some further reading, I realised that suggestion for using a hard floor was mostly in context of a recording studio.
 

venkatcr

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If u use a plywood backing u will be introducing a reflective surface again.
gvr

I agree that plywood can also reflect sound, but it is has much better acoustical properties than a painted wall. In addition if you create a pattern of holes across the plywood to half the thickness of the ply, you create a great acoustical panel by itself. On top of this if you stick a thick glass wool sheet, you are done.

Though your method of creating acoustical panels is also good, I suggested a ply backing for some rigidity and aesthetics. If you create a panel of some 7 feet by 2.5 feet, it is good to have some rigidity.

Rigid acoustical panels are also available that will do away with these iissues. But then costs are involved.

Cheers
 

micjak77

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HARD FLOOR, SOFT CEILING

The following is from an exchange that took place in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup in May, 2003:

Bill Ruys asked: Why it is recommended to have bare (un-carpeted) floors in the studio? One web site I visited mentioned that a bare floor was a prerequisite for the room design with diffusors and absorbers on the ceiling, but didn't say why. I'm trying to understand the principal, rather than following blindly.

Paul Stamler: Carpet typically absorbs high frequencies and some midrange, but does nothing for bass and lower midrange. Using carpet as an acoustic treatment, in most rooms, results in a room that is dull and boomy. Most of the time you need a thicker absorber such as 4-inch or, better, 6-inch fiberglass, or acoustic tile, and you can't walk around on either of those. Hence the general recommendation that you avoid carpet on the floor and use broadband absorbers elsewhere.

Lee Liebner: the human ear is accustomed to determining spatial references from reflections off of side walls and floor, and a low ceiling would only confuse the brain with more early reflections it doesn't need. Everywhere you go, the floor is always the same distance away from you, so it's a reference that your brain can always relate to. Top

John Noll: Reasons for having wood floors: they look good, equipment can be rolled easily, spills can be cleaned up easily, provide a bright sound if needed, sound can be deadened with area rugs.

Ethan Winer: In a studio room, versus a control room, a reflective floor is a great way to get a nice sense of ambience when recording acoustic instruments. Notice I said reflective, not wood, since linoleum and other materials are less expensive than wood yet sound the same. When you record an acoustic guitar or clarinet or whatever, slight reflections off the floor give the illusion of "being right there in the room" on the recording. It's more difficult to use a ceiling for ambience - especially in a typical home studio with low ceilings - because the mikes are too close to the ceiling when miking from above. And that proximity creates comb filtering which can yield a hollow sound. So with a hard floor surface you can get ambience, and with full absorption on the ceiling you can put the mike above the instrument, very close to the ceiling, without getting comb filtering.

Dave Wallingford: I've always preferred wood floors for a few reasons: 1) It's easier to move stuff around, 2) You can always get area rugs if you need them, And the main reason: 3) Pianos sound like crap on carpet.

gvr

HEY GVR, THANKS! the information you have given here has reinforced my beilef in wooden. One major advantage we have with wood is that even after installation you could still carpet some parts or whole with rugs, which is something not possible the other way around. Not to mention the aesthetics and maintenance.
 
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