Worth going for Upgrade? from Wharfy to Polk/Klipsch/KEF

[vnmathur57]

For a 16x18 room the HT system seems to be ok. IMO it is the speaker setup and room accoustics which needs to be looked into.BTW, have you tried the auto calliberation of the AVR(Audessey or something) ? Best way is to first use the Audessey and then adjust distance/level of speakers one by one. Sharing my experience only.

 

[prosenjit]

source,amp power,room acoustics,placemenst are very very important..for the punch
i am not at all discouraging you for upgrade..but remember thse points

for cinema use..go for klipsch..also they need less amp power..
kef is very good for music..
and polk is not of kef or klipsch leauge..so betwn your options..klipsch is the choice..
however personal demo is alwaus recomended..especially with your avr

 

[ankitbhargava]

Good to see you are getting some improvement. If possible check if you can audition with a more powerful amp.

Also, use the " Multi Quote feature" when replying to multiple posts.

I will take care in future
Thanks for all great work here on this Board

 

[ankitbhargava]

It seems you have shot the pic using a wide angle lens. What are the dimensions of the room? Sub needs better placement. They usually work great when placed close to the corners (quarter space). But if the room is big and if placement doesn't improve the sound, you may need an upgrade. No issues with the layout of the HT per se, except that the surrounds are too far from the listening position. Height is not a major issue. The punch you are missing can be also due to the limitations of your speakers. You can consider Klipsch RF 62ii which you have mentioned along with RC 52ii and RS 42ii. There are many other option in that price range. Don't even consider satellite speaker packages. As for as sub is concerned, you can go for a sub from SVS like PB12 plus or import Rythmik FV15HP.

Actually Panorama via iPhone , Room is about 18 X 16

I shall try to play with Sub position today now that I know principally I have seen improvement and post here for update.

I was told Klpisch has too bright sound :indifferent14: ?

For sure a more powerful Sub is in List now, I may sell my Velodyne

 

[prosenjit]

^^ dont consider anything what is told..experience it yourself..
and PB12 final..nothing elsehyeah:

 

[ankitbhargava]

For a 16x18 room the HT system seems to be ok. IMO it is the speaker setup and room accoustics which needs to be looked into.BTW, have you tried the auto calliberation of the AVR(Audessey or something) ? Best way is to first use the Audessey and then adjust distance/level of speakers one by one. Sharing my experience only.

Thats exactly what I do, use Audessey for base setup and then play around manually

 

[ankitbhargava]

Just played a stupid song which I auditioned in Ahmedabad with RTi A7 (Titli Song - Drum and Bass remix from Chennai Express), let me tell you.. the punch is MUCH better in those beats. Considering that Demo Room was 1/3rd size of my Room .. this one is starting to justify.

 

[Vinod.R]

I am thinking about different options for you, what about a stereo amplifier and a dedicated pair of bookshelves?

I offered the option of another pair of floor standers, maybe you can ask the show room where you bought it from, if they can send a pair of the same floor standers for a trial so you can decide yourself and then exchange it if you find it suitable.

Another way to go about it is to borrow a slightly more powerful denon in the 4 series and check it out with your present set up, this may also help you decide.

At the end of the day YOUR OPINION is the one that counts, not mine.

 

[Santy]

I offered the option of another pair of floor standers, maybe you can ask the show room where you bought it from, if they can send a pair of the same floor standers for a trial so you can decide yourself and then exchange it if you find it suitable.

If I may ask, how do you think putting same speaker as fronts for surrounds will give the punch the OP is looking for? The surrounds play for hardly 5% of the duration of a typical movie. If you are talking about stereo, then I would say building a separate 2 channel system makes better sense, atleast for me, than 5 channel stereo.

 

[Vinod.R]

Hi Santy,

1) My guess is that with a child, a second stereo system may not be an option for him.

2) Usually with a compromise comes choices, so maybe all channel stereo may be his pickle .

3) I personally have an all floor standing system and as many of my friends have commented, for some reason it sounds better even than an 5.1 setup comprising of an LRC, surround set up even when playing music.

But then it is of course the OPs call. All I am saying is try all options like a sub, floors for the rear too, or a more beefy amp. He has to try various options before he can conclude what he likes. All I am doing here is voicing my opinion about it and hope that he comes to the right decision regarding his set up.

 

[vnmathur57]

A 16x18 room is not all that big. If a loudspeaker system with 200 mm woofer and 165 mm midrange, powered with an AVR like 2113, can not fill the room to the satisfaction of the listener then, something somewhere is terribly wrong. In that case, lesser beings like Denon 1312, 1513, Y-373/473 etc should be very insufficient even for a smallish room. While I am definitely not trying to dissuade you from an upgradation, some experimentation before that will be certainly exciting. Just my 2C!

 

[ankitbhargava]

Thanks Santy & vnmathur

I agree that 2113 is a powerful Amp for my size of Room, probably I might have mis-communicated what I am trying to mention.

Overall the Room is full of sound and that sync well. The high and mid is good, dialogues are clear, while playing music... I can listen to all the subtle most instruments.

My complaint is more towards "impact" during those shots which trigger powerful bass attack like Gun shots, explosions, dive in water, slamming the door ... for that matter those continuous Beats which are there is many tracks which could lead you to tap your feet (like the Titli song from Chennai Express recently).

With Bi amping I can already see a more discerning high, mid and lows. That "chest thump" is there to some extent BUT not completely satisfactory. Overall improvement is visible.

I normally keep my volume level min to 60 db

My limitation is, at my Place Udaipur there is none showroom/dealer for Hifi Systems so I have to travel to audition. Therefore I rely on advices here which always work.

There is even a possibility I am over expecting from my system

 

[vnmathur57]

IMO sub is the culprit. Try to check with another borrowed sub. The specific situations you have mentioned ( gunshots etc), a good subwoofer is necessary to produce that `thump'.

 

[west10100]

Hi
Get jamo d600 sub. It will blow your lungs out with deep bass.
Do get some acoustic treatment too.
arun

 

[myriad]

Hello Ankit,

I would like you to try few things before you upgrade.

1. Change the power cord of your amp. Go with a 2.5 sqmm x 3 core power cord.

2. Don't use any power strip with filters inside. In fact most of the power strips use very thin wire and cheap sockets. Get one made from a local electrician using 2.5 sqmm wire. The wire can be finolex or Havells. For sockets i would suggest Crabtree universal sockets.

3. Plug your components in this order. Amp, sub, tv, blu ray, cable box.

4. See if you can run a 20 amp dedicated line from the DB Main to your system.

5. Use some isolation under your blu ray player...something like vibrapod or Magic Hexa or any diy isolation.

Your sub is underpowered for you room. You will have to go for higher output sub...something in the region of 500 watts. Still i would say you try above mentioned tweaks. They will help cleaning the sound and the sound will have more depth and bigger soundstage.

Many members will not agree with me but this is my observation.

Regards

Vasu

 

[ankitbhargava]

Hello Ankit,

I would like you to try few things before you upgrade.

1. Change the power cord of your amp. Go with a 2.5 sqmm x 3 core power cord.

2. Don't use any power strip with filters inside. In fact most of the power strips use very thin wire and cheap sockets. Get one made from a local electrician using 2.5 sqmm wire. The wire can be finolex or Havells. For sockets i would suggest Crabtree universal sockets.

3. Plug your components in this order. Amp, sub, tv, blu ray, cable box.

4. See if you can run a 20 amp dedicated line from the DB Main to your system.

5. Use some isolation under your blu ray player...something like vibrapod or Magic Hexa or any diy isolation.

Your sub is underpowered for you room. You will have to go for higher output sub...something in the region of 500 watts. Still i would say you try above mentioned tweaks. They will help cleaning the sound and the sound will have more depth and bigger soundstage.

Many members will not agree with me but this is my observation.

Regards

Vasu

Thanks for all your suggestions regarding wiring, I shall have a check on this.

I am using Power Cable supplied with Denon, my original wiring till socket is 16 amp I guess and yes I am using a Spike (power stripe) which is a heavy duty one but it does make sense to get one custom built with heavy wiring and sockets if this also could be an issue in performance.

More Powerful Sub is on my List now

 

[sash]

I also think it is the sub. Maybe the sub is lacking, maybe you need more bass than others but clearly in a HT if you think you are getting shortchanged, it is usually the source or the sub. With 165 watts, i guess Impact 12 is underpowered for you. Some say a corner placement improves the punch but that can only give you so much.
Get something that goes low and has high wattage. My room is 14x13 and my sub rocks the crap out of me at 40% gain. It has 300 watts continuous and 650 watts dynamic peak. Wattage on a sub makes a lot of difference.

 

[ankitbhargava]

I also think it is the sub. Maybe the sub is lacking, maybe you need more bass than others but clearly in a HT if you think you are getting shortchanged, it is usually the source or the sub. With 165 watts, i guess Impact 12 is underpowered for you. Some say a corner placement improves the punch but that can only give you so much.
Get something that goes low and has high wattage. My room is 14x13 and my sub rocks the crap out of me at 40% gain. It has 300 watts continuous and 650 watts dynamic peak. Wattage on a sub makes a lot of difference.

Besides this, I am still playing with settings to decide on what should be handled by "200 mm side firing woofer" which is their on Obsidian Towers and what should be handled by Sub.

When I put my Ears close to this Woofer I only listen to a boom boom sound which is very bleak (I have set crossover at 80 Hz as of now, Fronts are set to "Small").

Am technically weak here, not sure what is being distributed between this Woofer and Sub as of now. And this question could also be completely naive

 

[ankitbhargava]

Tested out few locations of Sub around the Room, it sounded best where it is right now

Shall wait to hear on last post

 

[jagdish_p]

Besides this, I am still playing with settings to decide on what should be handled by "200 mm side firing woofer" which is their on Obsidian Towers and what should be handled by Sub.

When I put my Ears close to this Woofer I only listen to a boom boom sound which is very bleak (I have set crossover at 80 Hz as of now, Fronts are set to "Small").

Am technically weak here, not sure what is being distributed between this Woofer and Sub as of now. And this question could also be completely naive

With your present setting all frequencies below 80 hz will get routed to sub alone

Try setting the fronts to large and if your AVR has the option to send bass to sub as well as fronts enable it