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Yamaha RX-V683 vs Denon AVR-X2400H - Which is the best?

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apoorvasheth

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Hello All Experts,

Hope you all are doing good! I would like to seek help from you all for the above 2 Amplifiers that I have shortlisted based on my below requirements (however, one can suggest alternates as well; my budget is between Rs. 55'000/- to Rs. 66'000/- INR)

1) I would like to have 4k upscale from the amplifier to my 4K HDR LCD TV.

2) I want an amazing crystal clear power punched sound quality.

3) I look forward to detail depth vocals (dialouges) & sound quality.

4) I was interested in Zone 2 feature as well wherein while in my living room I watch movies, at the same time in my bedroom I can listen to music/radio or wirelessly stream music.

My setup at home:

Speakers: I have HKTS 9 Speakers 5.1 on the wall by Harman Kardon.

Previous Amplifier: My present amplifier is Harman Kardon AVR 1700 which is no longer working and it's cost of repairs (DC Board & Power Supply I guess) is estimated at approx Rs. 28'000/- INR so I look forward to replace it with the best amplifier that meets my above needs.

T.V.: I had purchased SONY 65X8500D in May 2017 which has 4K & HDR. However due to lack of 4K channels from Tata Sky, Videocon, Airtel, etc...this SONY TV has become worthless as it just outputs basic picture quality even when the HD Channels are being aired. Doesn't feel like SONY at all. A 32inch T.V. is equally better to this 65inch SONY 65X8500D. However, I now strongly feel that a good amplifier in place with almost near to 4K upscale will now take care of this critical issue that I am facing at the moment.

So I am therefore looking out for an amplifier that can not only output outstanding sound quality but also upscale 4k at its best!

Therefore, I've shortlisted the above 2 amplifiers which I feel are very good however, you all may please feel free to also suggest me of any alternatives as well.

Thanks all for your valuable time & advice in advance!


Regards,
Apoorva.
 

efernand1

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Jul 6, 2012
Messages
5,170
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Location
Mumbai
Hello All Experts,

Hope you all are doing good! I would like to seek help from you all for the above 2 Amplifiers that I have shortlisted based on my below requirements (however, one can suggest alternates as well; my budget is between Rs. 55'000/- to Rs. 66'000/- INR)

1) I would like to have 4k upscale from the amplifier to my 4K HDR LCD TV.

2) I want an amazing crystal clear power punched sound quality.

3) I look forward to detail depth vocals (dialouges) & sound quality.

4) I was interested in Zone 2 feature as well wherein while in my living room I watch movies, at the same time in my bedroom I can listen to music/radio or wirelessly stream music.

My setup at home:

Speakers: I have HKTS 9 Speakers 5.1 on the wall by Harman Kardon.

Previous Amplifier: My present amplifier is Harman Kardon AVR 1700 which is no longer working and it's cost of repairs (DC Board & Power Supply I guess) is estimated at approx Rs. 28'000/- INR so I look forward to replace it with the best amplifier that meets my above needs.

T.V.: I had purchased SONY 65X8500D in May 2017 which has 4K & HDR. However due to lack of 4K channels from Tata Sky, Videocon, Airtel, etc...this SONY TV has become worthless as it just outputs basic picture quality even when the HD Channels are being aired. Doesn't feel like SONY at all. A 32inch T.V. is equally better to this 65inch SONY 65X8500D. However, I now strongly feel that a good amplifier in place with almost near to 4K upscale will now take care of this critical issue that I am facing at the moment.

So I am therefore looking out for an amplifier that can not only output outstanding sound quality but also upscale 4k at its best!

Therefore, I've shortlisted the above 2 amplifiers which I feel are very good however, you all may please feel free to also suggest me of any alternatives as well.

Thanks all for your valuable time & advice in advance!


Regards,
Apoorva.


Hi

How big is the listening area? Are the speakers placed optimally from ground? (5 to 5.5 feet from ground?) Since these are satellite, if placed higher, you will need to drive more power to them to hear them properly...most of us make the mistake of putting them in high corner ends.....

The speakers you have are the entry level Harmon Kardon satellite speaker system.....good enough if placed properly and driven by the right amp...the efficiency of these speakers are 86db....so a bit power hungry....

1) Most AVRs offer upscale to 4k....it all depends on the quality of content being used for viewing and also the interconnect cables and the TV you have.....

2) Humans (us) can hear frequencies between 20hz till 20khz,,,,,20hz is the lower side (bass) and 20khz is the higher Treble notes....any speaker which can emit maximum frequencies effectively in the spectrum of 20hz to 20khz is great and thats how you get good clarity,,,,,,punch depends on the placement of speakers and the sub....and also how low the sub can perform....closer to 20hz....

3) As above....most AVRs come with auto setup features to calibrate the speakers you have connected...it takes care of tonal, EQ, impedance setting and levels adjustments....the content you playback also matters, the quality and gauge of speaker wires also matter...

4) Zone 2 feature works well provided it is configured well.....you will need a 7.1/2 avr for the same...

Depending on your budget, each of them Yamaha and Denon will have their pros and cons.....

Audition Yamaha at Profx or other dealers.....Denon at Cinebels (Bandra) or other dealers to see how does movies and music sound......remember all auditions will be done using a Blu Ray player and not Dish TV or satellite content.....

Another brand to consider is Marantz NR series which is good for listening areas upto 200 to 450 sq ft......can be manually tweaked for more output for another 100 sq ft easily... else the SR series.....you can audition at Cinebels (Bandra) or MZ Audio......

No Cable or Satellite TV provider broadcast True HD or 3D or 4K properly.....as consumers we are often conned in getting such expensive subscriptions and get disappointed with the service later......DD is only for some channels and rest are analog or even mono in sound......

There are many Cable TV threads which are posted which give the real experience ....I am sure your TV was not a blind purchase.....4k is slowly getting set in India when compared to other countries......thats the reason i am still with a LED TV for the past 5 years +.........once when 4k settles in properly and also there is enough Blu Ray content around the same ...then i may consider a 4k TV.......

Between both.....Yamaha would suit your requirements....if you are open to other brands...check the Marantz out......see who gives the best rate...either HifiMart or MZ Audio.......

The latest Yamaha model i believe is the RX V 685....so the 683 should be cheaper.....bargain.....luckily we have enough dealers in mumbai who are trying to make business and hence will offer maximum discounts where possible...
 

rpmahale

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Yamaha RXV-683 is replaced with 685 and Denon AVR x2400h with x2500h. Both are excellent units in their regards and you will be happy with either of them. You can't expect miracle level of upscaling from entry level AVR, so if your intention is for only upscaling then look for higher level models with better upscaler chip. Already I also owned Sony 4k led TV and found to have sufficient 4k content available through different streaming services like Youtube, Netflix, Amazon prime, KODI video add-ons and UHD Blu Ray movie. You need to have good internet connection with more 10-12 Mbps speed and paid subscription for 4k streaming. Presently most of the 4k content is in documentaries and web series form and very less in movie form. Presently 4K HDR UHD Blu Ray movie cost around 2.5-3.0k and need UHD Blu Ray player.
 

apoorvasheth

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@efernand1:
Hi! Thanks for your detail input! Much appreciable!

How big is the listening area?
It’s a Big Listening Area. My Living room is in L – Shape.

Are the speakers placed optimally from ground? (5 to 5.5 feet from ground?)
Well, I haven’t checked this but it is placed a few distance away from the celling which I guess have made a big mistake as it should have been placed in the centre facing the audience.

Since these are satellite, if placed higher, you will need to drive more power to them to hear them properly...
Yes, that’s true!

most of us make the mistake of putting them in high corner ends.....
Exactly, you are correct. But it wasn’t me but the person who came from Sony India to do the installation and demo of my SONY TV had also got these speakers wall mounted after checking its level so it is actually his fault of not placing the speakers at a proper height.

The speakers you have are the entry level Harmon Kardon satellite speaker system.....good enough if placed properly and driven by the right amp...the efficiency of these speakers are 86db....so a bit power hungry....
Well, the thing is that my SONY TV is such expensive that I now do not want to take any further chances of changing the position of these speakers from where they are right now. The reason is that the centre speaker is right above the SONY TV with the Front Right & Left speakers next to them and changing its position means removing all the wall clips in which the wires are fitted, bring down the speakers at an appropriate height and again attached them to clips. Just one mistake of the worker doing this job will cost me my very expensive SONY TV. So, I am now happy with what I’ve got. After all, its better to compromise a bit towards the effectiveness of the Sound quality (had it been placed facing me) than regret badly later.

1) Most AVRs offer upscale to 4k: That’s what my last hope relies on (After being badly cheated by both SONY & Airtel on the name of 4K whereas SONY that sold such hugely expensive TV to me doesn’t even have its internal capability to upscale any picture quality to near to 4K quality and Airtel on the other hand charges consumers on the name of fake HD and doesn’t even show HD content as it offer 720p resolution which is not HD). So, I just hope that whether I select Yamaha or Denon – It has to offer best 4K upscale and outstanding crystal clear sound quality and powerful bass effects. My spending budget is 55k INR.

It depends on the quality of content being used for viewing: The Quality of the content had, is & will forever be that 1080i from the STB (Set top) box by Airtel/Tata Sky/DishTV/Videocon, etc… Airtel fools its customers by offering a STB “HD” STB (Set top) box on the name of HD but it actually offers a resolution of 1080i which is 720p. 4K channels will never come to India for sure!

the interconnect cables: The cable has been bought by the SONY TV Installation man and he told me this is a very good HDMI cable to watch 4K content so I paid him Rs. 1’200- for it as he bought it. However, later on I realize from someone that such 4K Supported HDMI cables are available for Rs. 600/- so that SONY TV Installation man cheated me by Rs. 600/-. That’s for SONY employees stand for. Cheating business.

TV you have: I have SONY 4K HDR TV so that’s not a problem.

2) Humans (us) can hear frequencies between 20hz till 20khz,,,,,20hz is the lower side (bass) and 20khz is the higher
Wow! That’s a deep research and too technical for me but I got the point…(-:

Treble notes....any speaker which can emit maximum frequencies effectively in the spectrum of 20hz to 20khz is great and thats how you get good clarity
Again, just aren’t sure on the technical aspect of my HKTS 9 Harman Kardon speakers. I hope it does the job really well.

punch depends on the placement of speakers and the sub.
For speakers placement, I have attached the photo of the speakers in my living room which you may look at to get a proper judgement of how high the speakers are from the ground level. Sub-Woofer is placed towards the front extreme left side.= (Please refer the picture enclosed)

also how low the sub can perform....closer to 20hz....
Well, I really aren’t sure of the technical side of this HKTS 9 Harman Kardon Sub Woofer but it definitely gives enough punch which I can feel it even though my living room unlike a pack room compartment transfers sound to the kitchen at bedrooms from the other end which further leady towards the kitchen and bedrooms.

3) As above....most AVRs come with auto setup features to calibrate the speakers you have connected...it takes care of tonal, EQ, impedance setting and levels adjustments....
Wow! That will be excellent indeed! There will be no need of any expert than if this Auto Setup and do the job well.

the content you playback also matters, the quality and gauge of speaker wires also matter...Yes.

4) Zone 2 feature works well provided it is configured well.....you will need a 7.1/2 avr for the same...Yes, and both Denon and Yamaha have this 7.1/2 but only few models of Yamaha support different playback in different rooms whereas other such as Yamaha RX-V583 offers different room listening experience but with the same music being played in both rooms.

Depending on your budget, each of them Yamaha and Denon will have their pros and cons.....

Audition Yamaha at Profx – I spoke with Profx in Lower Parel on the call and they no longer sell AVRs.

or other dealers.....Denon at Cinebels (Bandra) or other dealers to see

how does movies and music sound......Can’t take any judgement on this b’coz their Speakers and Sub-woofers are totally different than the ones’ installed in my house. So, its kind of pointless unless I have Bose or equivalent speakers at home of high quality.

remember all auditions will be done using a Blu Ray player and not Dish TV or satellite content.....Yes, that’s the big issue.

Another brand to consider is Marantz NR series which is good for listening areas upto 200 to 450 sq ft......can be manually tweaked for more output for another 100 sq ft easily... else the SR series.....you can audition at Cinebels (Bandra) or MZ Audio......

Actually, I got to know from one of the dealers in Mumbai that its best to buy Yamaha b’coz if cost of repairs is quiet low compared to Denon & Marantz. Service of Yamaha is also very good is what the dealer said…

No Cable or Satellite TV provider broadcast True HD or 3D or 4K properly
And they never will for next 100years!!!

.....as consumers we are often conned in getting such expensive subscriptions and get disappointed with the service later......That’s the problem!
Cheating business is being carried out openly by these big scale companies and they remain unaffected!


DD is only for some channels and rest are analog or even mono in sound......

There are many Cable TV threads which are posted which give the real experience ....I am sure your TV was not a blind purchase.....4k is slowly getting set in India when compared to other countries......

thats the reason i am still with a LED TV for the past 5 years.
Yes, you've made an intelligent choice! (-:

.........once when 4k settles in properly and also there is enough Blu Ray content around the same ...then i may consider a 4k TV.......
4K will never come to India at all for sure! They can’t even output Blu-ray level of quality by these Cable STB Companies like Airtel/Videocon/Tata Sky…forget that, they can’t even output True HD also. )-:

Between both.....Yamaha would suit your requirements....
I’ll surely look into this than. I am planning of Yamaha RX-V683 b’coz I have got the final price of Denon AVR-X2400H as Rs 57’500/ from one of the dealers whereas Yamaha offers RX-V683 for Rs. 56’000/- online price. I just need to confirm if Yamaha RX-V683 can upscale any source input to near to 4k clarity which Denon X2400H does as confirmed by the dealer.

if you are open to other brands...check the Marantz out......see who gives the best rate...either HifiMart or MZ Audio.......Sure.

The latest Yamaha model i believe is the RX V 685....so the 683 should be cheaper.....
Need to check with the authorized dealers about the best price. Yamaha RX-V583 is being offered at 45K INR (without installation). Rs. 1’500/- extra for the installation.

bargain.....luckily we have enough dealers in mumbai who are trying to make business and hence will offer maximum discounts where possible...
Yes, but I’ll only prefer Authorized Distributors/Dealers as I don’t want to get cheated with a used/defective or fake bill & warranty product. I am spending a huge portion of my hard earned money on just this Amplifier…(-:
 

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apoorvasheth

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@rpmahale:
Thanks for your quick reply!

Yamaha RXV-683 is replaced with 685 and Denon AVR x2400h with x2500h

Well, Denon AVR x2400h best price I have received is Rs. 57'500/- from one of the dealers who confirmed this model has the capability to upscale video to near to 4k.
Denon x2500h I need to check the price & whether it has been launched in India.


Besides, what are the major differences between x2400h & x2500h? Am I losing out on something really important?

Yamaha on the other end, the best price for both RXV-683 & 685 needs to be checked. Again, what's the difference between them?

I still wonder what will be my best choice - Yamaha or Denon? I just hope not to regret later on my decision.


Regards,
Apoorva.
 

iajay

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I purchased rxv 683 from Mumbai couple of months ago.. pm me for the price I got and dealer.. and yes it upscales content to 4K.. but I have kept it off, as my LG TV does decent job
 

apoorvasheth

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@iajay
I purchased rxv 683 from Mumbai couple of months ago.
Many Congratulations on your new purchase!

pm me for the price
I surely will!

I got it from a dealer.
Was this an Authorized Dealer of Yamaha?

and yes it upscales content to 4K..
Wow! That's indeed a Fantastic news for me than & I am so very much happy to know this
SONY HAS BADLY CHEATED ME WITH WORSE TV FOR WHICH I PAID A HUGE MONEY FOR THE AVERAGE QUALITY DISPLAY WHICH IT OUTPUTS THAN NO MATTER WHATEVER THE SOURCE & RESOLUTION OF VIDEO SUPPLY IS. Glad that Yamaha will cover up on the dirt created by SONY in my living room!


But I am much more curious to know till what extent can it upscale an HD content of 720p that passes through the set top box to 4K? I mean 70%, 80%, 90%, etc....

Also, of which company's Set top box do you own and is it an HD Box?

Do you feel like it's almost a 4K content when your Yamaha amplifier upscales HD to 4K?

but I have kept it off, as my LG TV does decent job.
While its nice to know that your L.G. outputs a good picture quality but now it surprises me that is the picture quality of HD to 4K upscale via this Yamaha RXV-683 that bad which enforces you to switch over to L.G. display resolution? That's really strange.

I just spoke with one of the dealers who said Yamaha RXV-683 has been replaced with 685. However, I wonder what are the extra features in RXV-685 as Yamaha website doesn't give out much details.



Regards,
Apoorva Sheth.
 

iajay

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I own a Tata sky 4k box.. but there are No 4k channels ;).. I think the Tata sky box itself upscales the HD channels....
 

Chaos

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Apoorva, I would suggest you take a demo of the 4k upscaling before you decide to buy. Ask the dealer to connect an STB and play it in his showroom.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-4k-tvs-make-1080p-look-better/

Lower-than high-def sources
Upconversion is more difficult with lower resolution sources. Standard-definition TV, DVD and even 720p HDTV programs aren't going to look any better on a 4K TV. You can't get water from a stone.

And it's worth remembering that the more you sharpen an image, the more you accentuate the flaws present in lower-grade content, such as noise ormacroblocking.

So will a 4K TV displaying lower resolution sources look worse than on a 1080p TV?

That depends on the TV. Will this older, lower-resolution content still be watchable on a 4K TV? Generally, yes. Some videophiles may balk, but for the most part the image will be soft, but not bad. But again, it can depend on the TV. Which brings us to...

Almost every TV
Just because a TV is 4K doesn't mean it has a good scaler built-in. On cheaper 4K TVs, for instance, you probably save money because of a sub-par scaler. So in these cases, 1080p content probably won't look any better (and possibly worse).

Sadly, as far as scaling performance is concerned, you usually get what you pay for.

Bottom line
Like any marketing, take the claims from TV manufacturers with a grain of salt. Good upconversion can improve the apparent detail in an image; I've seen side-by-side demos that make 1080p look nearly as sharp as 4K. Admittedly these were put on by a company which makes scalers, but the potential is there, just as it was in going from standard to high definition.

To get the most out of your 4K TV, you need good 4K content. There isn't a lot now, but there will be more soon. In the meantime, a TV with a good scaler can make 1080p look slightly more detailed, than it would on a similarly-performing 1080p TV. Presuming, of course, you're sitting close enough.
 

iajay

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I just tried changing resolution of my Tata sky stb to 1080i and tried upscaling from Yamaha .. I must say it looks almost same if not better..but I still prefer the STB to send 4k signal
 

reachkalyan.kr

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But I am much more curious to know till what extent can it upscale an HD content of 720p that passes through the set top box to 4K? I mean 70%, 80%, 90%, etc...
After seeing this comments i would suggest you to keep your expectations minimal .
Better go for audition before you take a call.
You mentioned about 720p source which is lesser than the resolution of full hd 1080p and your expectations for 4k with same source which pixel details are not available in 720p file.
It is like a patchup work kind of job will be done when there is a word "Upscaling" ,only thing is how good it is.
Imho
 

Chaos

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After seeing this comments i would suggest you to keep your expectations minimal .
Better go for audition before you take a call.
You mentioned about 720p source which is lesser than the resolution of full hd 1080p and your expectations for 4k with same source which pixel details are not available in 720p file.
It is like a patchup work kind of job will be done when there is a word "Upscaling" ,only thing is how good it is.
Imho
He already has a high-end 4k Sony TV. He isn't happy with the upscaling on that. Wonder how the A/V receiver which costs a quarter of what he paid for the TV is going to do that better.
 

reachkalyan.kr

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He already has a high-end 4k Sony TV. He isn't happy with the upscaling on that. Wonder how the A/V receiver which costs a quarter of what he paid for the TV is going to do that better.
Thats the reason i asked him to check for audition.
If he is satisfied with upscaling which is given by AVR then no discussion here.
Taste differs person to person.
 

kmathan88

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Sky, Videocon, Airtel, etc...this SONY TV has become worthless
I understand about DTH not providing expected results. How about other sources ? Did you try any and happy with the results ? I see lot of Blu ray content in streaming service, especially Apple 4K tv seems to be getting popular. My friend has 55inch Sony 4K and he is satisfied with Apple 4K tv content. Also, why not go through 4K blu ray route.

I remember reading Oppo 103/105 darbee edition got a very good upscaling compared to any other player. I am not sure if Oppo 203 launched with Darbee edition. No personal experience on this again.
 
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apoorvasheth

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I just tried changing resolution of my Tata sky stb to 1080i and tried upscaling from Yamaha .. I must say it looks almost same if not better..but I still prefer the STB to send 4k signal
Which means now it is crystal clear that if a 4K Tata Sky cannot upscale to 4k clarity by 5% also via this Yamaha Amplifer, there is "NIL" expectations I can set from my Airtel HD+ Set top box which fools it's consumers on the name of "HD+" Set top box but actually outputs 1080i which is 720p resolution. So just like SONY, even Yamaha is into the competition of cheating business by mentioning the work "Upscale".

Anyway'z, I just wonder if it will be possible for you to shoot a very small video of 0.20secs with 1080i and 4k upscale enabled in your Yamaha Amplifier. It will make it a lot better for me and others too who will follow these above conversations in the future before he/she too decides to buy an amplifier and are in question about the 4k upscale thing. Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Apoorva.
 

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apoorvasheth

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T
Apoorva, I would suggest you take a demo of the 4k upscaling before you decide to buy. Ask the dealer to connect an STB and play it in his showroom.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-4k-tvs-make-1080p-look-better/
They will never do that else the "Truth" will be out against what's mentioned on their Yamaha Official website about 4K "Upscale" and none of their units will get sold out if a consumer is looking for a good 4k upscale amplifier...:)
 

apoorvasheth

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He already has a high-end 4k Sony TV. He isn't happy with the upscaling on that. Wonder how the A/V receiver which costs a quarter of what he paid for the TV is going to do that better.
No, SONY simply doesn't upscale by even 0.1% at all. It only 100 % cheats consumer just b'coz they have made their big brand name in the consumer market with a false mis-conception that SONY offers best Picture quality which is false. I now understand that this all depends on the source and the content whereas the TV does nothing by itself.

Apoorva.
 
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Chaos

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No, SONY simply doesn't upscale by even 0.1% at all. It only 100 % cheats consumer just b'coz they have made their big brand name in the consumer market with a false mis-conception that SONY offers best Picture quality which is false. I now understand that this all depends on the source and the content whereas the TV does nothing by itself.

Apoorva.
I have a Sony 65X9000e and it definitely upscales 1080p content pretty well. Youtube, Netflix, Prime etc. look amazing on it.

As for SD and 720p HD it definitely upscales it better than most other brands. I personally tested it at various stores before buying since parents watch a lot of regional content which normally doesn't come in HD at all. I asked the sales guys in the showroom to play a non-HD channel on the TV and compared side by side. Sony was doing it much better than the rest.

End of the day, there is not much that can be done for a standard definition source. Your eyes will adjust to it and you'll no longer notice it as much as time goes by.
 

iajay

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I think you should check your viewing distance.. if you watch TV from too close then that could be a problem..
 

apoorvasheth

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I have a Sony 65X9000e and it definitely upscales 1080p content pretty well. Youtube, Netflix, Prime etc. look amazing on it.

As for SD and 720p HD it definitely upscales it better than most other brands. I personally tested it at various stores before buying since parents watch a lot of regional content which normally doesn't come in HD at all. I asked the sales guys in the showroom to play a non-HD channel on the TV and compared side by side. Sony was doing it much better than the rest.

End of the day, there is not much that can be done for a standard definition source. Your eyes will adjust to it and you'll no longer notice it as much as time goes by.
Well, the one I have own is SONY 65X8500D which has given me worse results. The one you have is an upgraded model than mine which has performed better for you (Lucky). The results of my SONY TV is right in front of my eyes is the reason why I shared my bad experience about this SONY TV which I had lots of faith in. It hurts a lot when one spends a huge chunk of money and than the TV under performs, especially a brand like SONY.
 
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