32" EX500 or 32" LD650

[siddh]

Hi Guys,

Need help here. 32" EX500 or 32" LD650. LG 32"LD 650 scores on contrast ratio, tru motion and it has netcast. Sony has 24p, less power consumption and eco features. Could not see 24p and eco features for the indian model in lg. Prices : Lg is 1,000 Rs cheaper than Sony. Any suggestions.

Regards
Sid.

 

[adder]

LG LG650 has much lower contrast then the Sony which have a SPVA panel.
The Sony motionflow is again superior to the Lg trumotion,so is the overall PQ in SD.

 

[siddh]

Hey adder

Lg website states a contrast ratio of 200,000 and sony had 150,000. LG has trumotion 200 and sony motionflow 100

 

[andy4u]

i have the same dilemma...i am also considering Samsung C650...i ll appreciate some gyan to help make better choice

 

[shredder]

Hey adder

Lg website states a contrast ratio of 200,000 and sony had 150,000. LG has trumotion 200 and sony motionflow 100

Contrast ratio is that of Dynamic contrast ratio, which is pretty much like PMPO rating = not really reliable guide as this figure can be manipulated, and differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. Don't go by what is stated on paper, same for motionflow. Best to do a side by side comparision. As adder mentioned, the Sony will probably have a better contrast ratio, irrespective of what the numbers say. This is because of the type of panel used. LG uses IPS panel which has its own advantages.

 

[adder]

The Sony has a SPVA panel which is capable of deep blacks,the LG contrast at best can match the Sony/samsung models of 2006.
Those insane Dynamic contrast ratio numbers where started by samsung in 2006,today it has no meaning just like PMPO.Even the response time is overrated.

As far as 200hz trumotion while 200hz in theory sounds better then 100hz of sony/samsung/philips.
In reality you can get better performance with 60hz tvs from rivals like sony/samsung/philips.
LG another BS marketing is the "Knock it to believe it" which is not because of IPS tech but rather due to use of another layer of glass/plastic.

The samsung C650 is also a excellent choice,however it subjected to panel lottery.Both the sony EX500 and samsung c650 are a better buy then the LG.They have a better image processing then LG.

 

[longshanks]

the LG contrast at best can match the Sony/samsung models of 2006.

Blind claims without proper proof = fail.

 

[adder]

Blind claims without proper proof = fail.

Well i have said it before,you just keep getting this question again and again.the IPS panels cannot match the SPVA panels in contrast,even todays panels barely cross the 1000:1 without aid from loacal dimming.

Here is a example of the
contrast from a 2007 Sony D300A or D3000 series achieved with deeper blacks

Contrast from 2010 LG8500 high end lcd achieved with brighter whites.

 

[shredder]

Are the blacks in Sony/Samsung SPVA panels really black or are they light grey/ bluish black? How are the black levels wrt plasma?? And if you can post some dark room pics it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[longshanks]

Well i have said it before,you just keep getting this question again and again.the IPS panels cannot match the SPVA panels in contrast,even todays panels barely cross the 1000:1 without aid from loacal dimming.

The same way SPVA panels cannot match IPS Panel's color accuracy or viewing angle.

Here is a example of the
contrast from a 2007 Sony D300A or D3000 series achieved with deeper blacks

Contrast from 2010 LG8500 high end lcd achieved with brighter whites.
[/IMG]

Deeper blacks contrast vs deeper white contrast ?

That comparison proves nothing, Deeper black does not translate to better contrast.

infact a reviewer says that LG8500 has almost perfect blacks.

Above you see my results when the local dimming feature was activated. What you see is not a mistake. Actually my measuring equipment gave me 0,0 cd/m2 for black and this suggests that black levels on LE8500 are perfect or very close to perfect.

LG LE8500 has zero clouding. The local dimming system ensures almost perfect blacks and there are no light homogeneity issues.


source :

LG LE8500 review - FlatpanelsHD

Comparing a 2006 LCD with any 2010 model in terms of anything is simply pointless.

 

[BLASTO]

Black level in LG is low. Take it or leave it.
But black level is not the only measure you will make when going for an LCD.

Sony has better imaging engine (Beavia Engine 3) too. It helps better upscaling the SD (DTH) content.

LG has better out of box sound and looks. Menu system is also IMO better.

 

[shredder]

Accepted that black level in LG is not as good as Sony/Samsung, because of the very nature of IPS panel. Question is how much do they differ and whether Sony/Samsung produce actual black or just a deeper shade of grey/ blue black. Hence the request for some pictures taken in a dark room while displaying a black image.

 

[pulsar_swift]

with your eyes closed you can go for samsung la 32C630 or 32C650. 32C630 @ 47K croma pune

 

[idlebrain]

Last week,me along with a friend checking for 40incher LCD. Store got LD650, EX500 and Sammy C650. All these three looked very close with HD content. Then we played a downloaded .AVI file which is of poor quality. Out of these C650 performed well handling the file and looked decent, the other two showed lot of pixlation and motion blur. Finally we decided on C650. The other advantage of C650 is, it can handle majority of files over USB...if that's one of the deciding factor.

 

[shredder]

47k for any 32" LCD is too much irrespective of whether it is CCFL or LED

 

[adder]

The same way SPVA panels cannot match IPS Panel's color accuracy or viewing angle.


Deeper blacks contrast vs deeper white contrast ?

That comparison proves nothing, Deeper black does not translate to better contrast.

infact a reviewer says that LG8500 has almost perfect blacks.

Above you see my results when the local dimming feature was activated. What you see is not a mistake. Actually my measuring equipment gave me 0,0 cd/m2 for black and this suggests that black levels on LE8500 are perfect or very close to perfect.

LG LE8500 has zero clouding. The local dimming system ensures almost perfect blacks and there are no light homogeneity issues.


source :

LG LE8500 review - FlatpanelsHD

Comparing a 2006 LCD with any 2010 model in terms of anything is simply pointless.

You can achieve good contrast with either deep blacks or brighter whites.while deep blacks are preferred ,bright whites is good upto a certain extent.No one i know likes the lcds to be in torch mode like above 200 cd/m2,you easily take a lcd to 300 or 400 cd/2 which does come handy if the room is really bright or to defeat a glare in super glossy tvs.

Also the tv with VA based orging such as SPVA ,UV2A panels can show very deep blacks and fairly bright whites at the same time without any aid from backlight.

You can even have Zero blacks in a samsung CCFL lcd if it dims.
The local dimming in the LG 8xxx.9xxx and 2010 philips models uses a different kind of inferior local dimming not as good as the older LH90 or rivals tvs from sony/samsung thus far .

Also irrespective of the brand a local dimming lcd can only aid in some situations,its pixel level blacks are still quite far off which is the case of IPS.Where as SPVA,UV2A go way deeper.

Accepted that black level in LG is not as good as Sony/Samsung, because of the very nature of IPS panel. Question is how much do they differ and whether Sony/Samsung produce actual black or just a deeper shade of grey/ blue black. Hence the request for some pictures taken in a dark room while displaying a black image.

Well there aren't much images which show tvs with identical conditions and camera settings.But the below images may help but all are local dimming lcds.


But below images illustrating the Lg 8xxx ,9xxx clouding like effect or light seepage even with a low exposure time,worsens when viewed off axis.
The blacks levels in non Dimmed zones and light seepage zones won't be as deep as VA based tvs.

Below the 2010 flagship philips same light seepage issue but has a panel with much deep blacks then lg,the philips looks a bit exaggerated because of a slightly longer exposure time .But should produce deeper blacks and light seepage should be less then the LG.

Below 2010 Sony HX800 with limited local dimming,no clouding like effect or light seepage around the images even at off axis and blacks are bezel black.

While all local dimming show some kind of light seepage not to the extent of the new form of local dimming implemented by LG.

 

[tanmoydc]

folks i glued to this as i own a 32LD650, bought couple of weeks back. When i start the LCD, the starting screen does not have true black it has neon leakage from its sides. For me it is so far so good. Picture quality is superb (with Airtel HD), specifically the DD HD, i was watching India vs Pak hocky match the other day, and it was so lively.

 

[longshanks]

No one i know likes the lcds to be in torch mode like above

Hence i prefer Plasma, no matter what the LCD it will definitely look like a torch in a dark room.

Also the tv with VA based orging such as SPVA ,UV2A panels can show very deep blacks and fairly bright whites at the same time without any aid from backlight.

SPVA has sightly better real world contrast.

Same as how IPS has better color accuracy and viewing angle.

You can even have Zero blacks in a samsung CCFL lcd if it dims.

proof?

Well there aren't much images which show tvs with identical conditions and camera settings.But the below images may help but all are local dimming lcds.


But below images illustrating the Lg 8xxx ,9xxx clouding like effect or light seepage even with a low exposure time,worsens when viewed off axis.
The blacks levels in non Dimmed zones and light seepage zones won't be as deep as VA based tvs.

Below the 2010 flagship philips same light seepage issue but has a panel with much deep blacks then lg,the philips looks a bit exaggerated because of a slightly longer exposure time .But should produce deeper blacks and light seepage should be less then the LG.


Below 2010 Sony HX800 with limited local dimming,no clouding like effect or light seepage around the images even at off axis and blacks are bezel black.


While all local dimming show some kind of light seepage not to the extent of the new form of local dimming implemented by LG.

All the pics look random with very less proof that they belong to the quoted brands or even models. Even if they are the pic being shot looks way off angle in the "claimed" Philips and LG models and seems to be taken standing directly opposite to the Sony one.

The Flag ship Philips of is the 9705 and it cannot be compared with the HX800 since the former is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of pic processing , back lighting, features, motion processing and what not.

HX800 needs to be compared to the lower 8 series of Philips.


Here is a comparison from a well known site:

Philips 8605H


Out-of-Box , After calibration
Black level : 0,07 cd/m2 , 0,04 cd/m2
Brightness : 289 cd/m2 , 120 cd/m2
Contrast ratio : 4129:1 , 4000:1



After calibration I measured a black level of 0.04 cd/m2. This is a very good result and one of the best results we have yet seen from an Edge LED model. Samsungs Edge LED models such as the C8000 have black depth of 0.05 cd/m2. The best plasma-TVs (Pioneer KURO) we have measured to 0.02 cd/m2 (thats the limit of our equipment, so its probably lower).




Philips 8605H has no problems with backlight bleeding or clouding at all. Very positive


source : Philips 8605H review - FlatpanelsHD


Sony HX800


Out-of-Box , After calibration

Black level : 0,09 cd/m2 , 0,06 cd/m2
Brightness : 229 cd/m2 , 132 cd/m2
Contrast ratio : 2545:1 , 2200:1[/CENTER]

After calibration I measured a black level of 0.06 cd/m2 which is good but not fantastic. This is more or less the same as the Samsung Edge LED models such as the C8000.

Shadow detailing is fair but not fantastic. Because the gamma tracking is not perfectly accurate HX800 is not able to reproduce all shades of dark grey



Unfortunately Sony HX800 has some visible clouding and too much for a perfect result. The clouding is mostly visible in the lower left corner and can be distracting in dark rooms. I didnt see it during daytime.


The "2010" 9 series from Philips( 32" and 46") is considered the best what LCD has to offer and the only drawback is the price. It even has won many awards from many websites.

here is one :

Despite the aggravatingly absent Freeview HD tuner, by combining its powerful picture processing engine with some startling new local dimming direct LED finesse, Philips has set a new performance benchmark for the 32in TV marketplace. Admittedly its a benchmark most people probably wont be able to afford, but at least the price is justified.

Philips 32PFL9705 review - Picture and Audio Quality, and Verdict - TV reviews - TrustedReviews


The use of direct LED lighting with local dimming really does make the set the best picture performer the 32-inch world has ever produced

Philips 32PFL9705 review from TechRadar UK's expert reviews of Plasma and LCD TVs

 

[shredder]

Hence i prefer Plasma, no matter what the LCD it will definitely look like a torch in a dark room.



SPVA has sightly better real world contrast.

Same as how IPS has better color accuracy and viewing angle.



proof?





All the pics look random with very less proof that they belong to the quoted brands or even models. Even if they are the pic being shot looks way off angle in the "claimed" Philips and LG models and seems to be taken standing directly opposite to the Sony one.

The Flag ship Philips of is the 9705 and it cannot be compared with the HX800 since the former is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of pic processing , back lighting, features, motion processing and what not.

HX800 needs to be compared to the lower 8 series of Philips.


Here is a comparison from a well known site:

Philips 8605H


Out-of-Box , After calibration
Black level : 0,07 cd/m2 , 0,04 cd/m2
Brightness : 289 cd/m2 , 120 cd/m2
Contrast ratio : 4129:1 , 4000:1



After calibration I measured a black level of 0.04 cd/m2. This is a very good result and one of the best results we have yet seen from an Edge LED model. Samsungs Edge LED models such as the C8000 have black depth of 0.05 cd/m2. The best plasma-TVs (Pioneer KURO) we have measured to 0.02 cd/m2 (thats the limit of our equipment, so its probably lower).




Philips 8605H has no problems with backlight bleeding or clouding at all. Very positive


source : Philips 8605H review - FlatpanelsHD


Sony HX800


Out-of-Box , After calibration

Black level : 0,09 cd/m2 , 0,06 cd/m2
Brightness : 229 cd/m2 , 132 cd/m2
Contrast ratio : 2545:1 , 2200:1[/CENTER]

After calibration I measured a black level of 0.06 cd/m2 which is good but not fantastic. This is more or less the same as the Samsung Edge LED models such as the C8000.

Shadow detailing is fair but not fantastic. Because the gamma tracking is not perfectly accurate HX800 is not able to reproduce all shades of dark grey



Unfortunately Sony HX800 has some visible clouding and too much for a perfect result. The clouding is mostly visible in the lower left corner and can be distracting in dark rooms. I didnt see it during daytime.


The "2010" 9 series from Philips( 32" and 46") is considered the best what LCD has to offer and the only drawback is the price. It even has won many awards from many websites.

here is one :

Despite the aggravatingly absent Freeview HD tuner, by combining its powerful picture processing engine with some startling new local dimming direct LED finesse, Philips has set a new performance benchmark for the 32in TV marketplace. Admittedly its a benchmark most people probably wont be able to afford, but at least the price is justified.

Philips 32PFL9705 review - Picture and Audio Quality, and Verdict - TV reviews - TrustedReviews


The use of direct LED lighting with local dimming really does make the set the best picture performer the 32-inch world has ever produced

Philips 32PFL9705 review from TechRadar UK's expert reviews of Plasma and LCD TVs

Wow! That's some research backed up with solid proof, unlike some blind blanket statements we have heard. And I agree with you about the torch-like brightness of LCD in complete darkness. In complete darkness the defects of LCD wrt black level becomes apparent.... I hate that damn blue-ish black colour which we are supposed to regard as black. But if there is some ambient lighting then its fine.... black looks black. So best not to turn off the lights while watching LCDs. I don't know about LEDs though... maybe they are different??

 

[longshanks]

I don't know about LEDs though... maybe they are different??

No, not that much.