7.1 is the Future

[Sat_hi_sh]

If some AVRs convert 5.1 to 7.1, I would expect simulation. They are probably sending the same stream to side and rear surrounds.

I have a 7.1 setup, whilst watching Dolby or DTS 5.1, the rear speakers are effectively off but while am watching blu-ray movies with HD Master Audio the rear speakers seem to work even though the output is 5.1..

I have Stargate with 7.1 DTS HD Audio, in that the rear speakers have a crisper effect when compared to 5.1 HD Audio, Could anyone clear my doubts ???

 

[rana_kirti]

Hi Rana. Nice seeing you on another forum. Have you done your DTS Neo:X set-up yet?

Sanjay,

Good to see you too over here and i'm sure this forum will gain a lot by your presence. Welcome to the Hifivision Forum.

I'm looking at the Onkyo 3009/5009 which will have DTS Neo X. But the only thing stopping me right now is the Bright sound of the Onkyo.

But i've read that the higher range Onkyo's like the 3008/5008 are considerably Warmer in nature than the typical Onkyo House sound which tends to be Bright. I've also read across many reviews that the Onkyo series from 07/08 onward are actually less attacking than before.

I'm used to the Rich and Warm Yamaha sound for more than a decade now and so it'll be too much of a change for me to go for Bright AVRs.

That being said... An AVR dealer is arranging a Demo of the 3008 for me and i'm gonna carry over my PSB Image speakers to see/hear how they sound with the Onkyo. If i like the combo then i'll buy the Onkyo but if i don't then i'll have to settle with the Yamaha V3067 as that's the safe choice for me since i currently use my speakers with a Yamaha and love the match. I've also heard the 3067 at a member's house and it's just fantastic.

I've heard the NAD T747 which sounds equally delicious and is also on my radar.

Yamaha might never have Aud Dynamic/EQ or THX loudness Plus because they have their own concept of Adaptive DRC but i hope they can at least get the Dolby Volume in their next 71 series. That'll be the best scenario for me.

I have to hear at low volumes many times and Dolby Volume is a must for me. That's the only thing the V3067 lacks. I'm not too sure how good the Adaptive DRC is with low volume listening. "Dialogue Intelligibility" is of paramount Importance to me especially at low volumes.

My research tells me that among Aud Dynamic Volume/EQ, THX Loudness Plus, Yamaha Adaptive DRC and Dolby Volume the latter is the best of Low Volume listening. I wonder why isn't Dolby putting this in more AVRs

Regards,

Rana

 

[sdurani]

I have a 7.1 setup, whilst watching Dolby or DTS 5.1, the rear speakers are effectively off but while am watching blu-ray movies with HD Master Audio the rear speakers seem to work even though the output is 5.1..

When watching Dolby or DTS 5.1, activate PLIIx processing and you will get sound from all 7 speakers.

 

[sdurani]

But the only thing stopping me right now is the Bright sound of the Onkyo.

Why not just turn the treble down? Don't you have tone controls (bass and treble) on your current receiver?

 

[rana_kirti]

yes that can be done. but i feel the signature sound remains. Yamaha has this beautiful lush and rich sound. It might not have all the details that an Onkyo has and maybe you can't hear all the pings and pongs and intricate detail in a soundtrack but for me the Yamaha is very easy and forgiving on the ears which i find comfortable for a 2 hr movie. I kind of find everything else Bright.

But it could be totally true that i'm just used to the Yamaha sound as any Onkyo user might be used to the Onkyo sound and may complain that the Yamaha has a very dull sound with lack of detail.

But the good thing is i'm getting to demo the 3008 with my speakers so then i'll know for sure if the flagship onkyos the 3008/5008 are indeed warmer than their lower brothers. I've heard the 608 and 808 and although they had excellent channel separation and really made me that i'm inside the movie they were still a bit Bright for me.

So essentially lets see how my 3008 demo goes.

 

[just4kix]

Why just 11.2 when 22.2 is under development?

 

[marsilians]

I have a 7.1 setup, whilst watching Dolby or DTS 5.1, the rear speakers are effectively off but while am watching blu-ray movies with HD Master Audio the rear speakers seem to work even though the output is 5.1..

I have Stargate with 7.1 DTS HD Audio, in that the rear speakers have a crisper effect when compared to 5.1 HD Audio, Could anyone clear my doubts ???

The output in your speakers also depend on your AVR's mode that you have setup. 7 ch stereo. neo-6, etc. in my Yamaha receiver output to all speakers.

 

[CANDUU]

Why just 11.2 when 22.2 is under development?

Omg.i have to spend all my money to buy 22.1 speakers.

 

[mridulgoel]

Omg.i have to spend all my money to buy 22.1 speakers.

Guyz ...

i think, it majorly depends on the size of the room and the number of people watching it at the same time...

when we talk anything above 9.2 (in todays scenario), it by default means tht the setup is for commercial use...

Even the 9.2 setup what we did, was for a 50 x 35 Room... where we had 3+1 rows and around 18+2 seater room...

In regular 7.1/7.2 is the max...

-----------------


So dont take too much tension on it...

 

[rana_kirti]

7.1 is the future. for Cinema Halls. I agree to that.

But for Home Theater, to be honest.... 7.1 is old news. It's not the future.. it's the past. It's so last century.

I don't know about our forum but across the world especially in US and UK the hottest trend over the past 2 yrs has been Front Heights. 9.2 is the new 7.1 over there.

I've heard a 10.2 setup here in Delhi at acoustic's house. He is a fellow member. And trust me when i say this. I've never heard anything like that in my whole life. I've done a lot of HT demos but when i was over at acoustics house i felt i was inside the movie.

I literally felt i was with the characters on screen or i could say the characters were with me in the room. We all were in the same room and whatever the characters were going through... we were also going through. hyeah:

I'm gonna have to say this one more time because it was so damn good....

"I was inside the Movie"

Forums members especially in Delhi must take an opportunity to visit acoustic's house and see/feel/hear what Front Heights and Rear Heights can do. It's something you will never know untill you experience it.

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. :clapping:

Now that my friends, is the future...!!! :thumbsup:

 

[sdurani]

when we talk anything above 9.2 (in todays scenario), it by default means tht the setup is for commercial use...

Actually, it's the opposite. 7.1 just started commercial use last year, by which time 11.1 was already in home set-ups.

 

[sdurani]

But for Home Theater, to be honest.... 7.1 is old news.

Yup, a quarter century old to be exact. Heck, even 9.1 is two years old at this point (PLIIz came out in 2009).

 

[deepakgang]

so how much is too much. it will be possible to encode numerous channels even as of now. so does the future means just more number of channels or could we expect something radically different than from going from 7.2 to 22.2

 

[sdurani]

so how much is too much. it will be possible to encode numerous channels even as of now. so does the future means just more number of channels or could we expect something radically different than from going from 7.2 to 22.2

The specifications for the Blu-ray format limit it to 8 audio channels, so don't expect more than 7.1 discrete. However, additional channels could be matrixed into the discrete channels.

Back in 1999, Star Wars: Phantom Menace had a 3rd surround channel (the surround-back channel) matrixed into the L/R surround channels. This didn't make it a 6.1 soundtrack; it was still 5.1 but you could extract the additional surround channel using an EX decoder.

Likewise, no reason that height channels can't be matrix encoded into a 7.1-channel soundtrack, and then decoded (extracted) using Dolby PLIIz or DTS Neo:X. The hard part: convincing a studio to do a 9.1 mix.

 

[mridulgoel]

Actually, it's the opposite. 7.1 just started commercial use last year, by which time 11.1 was already in home set-ups.

Buddy

i am not talking about the technology...

As per the technology even 3D is obsolete and the new things tht up in US market is 4x...

But, there is still a lot of difference in society and accepted technology in India...
To be very, though we are getting Dolby / DTS 5.1 DVDs from a long time now, but since last year some DVDs and now BluRays have the original effect...

People in India are not even considering dedicated setup and still more than 92% of the AV community lies under the multimedia section of AV like LG, Samsung, Bose and all... so setting up a 11.2 or better is not tht feasible..

And moreover, most of the amps what we get are 7.1 pre / power / reciever... and most of the available disks are still 5.1 only, very few are 7.1 capable, and hardly 2-3 of them are 9.1...

So its not the question of technology what is being launched, it is far away from being imaginable, i totally agree to that...
But where the point lies in is the availability and the feasibility...

--------------------------

rana_kirti

the 10.2 setup you heard was for which movie...??
And which amplifiers were used in the setup...

kindly elaborate for our updates, as i am still in the imagination that in India we dont have anything above 7.1 or 9.1(exceptional)...

 

[rana_kirti]

Buddy

i am not talking about the technology...

As per the technology even 3D is obsolete and the new things tht up in US market is 4x...

But, there is still a lot of difference in society and accepted technology in India...
To be very, though we are getting Dolby / DTS 5.1 DVDs from a long time now, but since last year some DVDs and now BluRays have the original effect...

People in India are not even considering dedicated setup and still more than 92% of the AV community lies under the multimedia section of AV like LG, Samsung, Bose and all... so setting up a 11.2 or better is not tht feasible..

And moreover, most of the amps what we get are 7.1 pre / power / reciever... and most of the available disks are still 5.1 only, very few are 7.1 capable, and hardly 2-3 of them are 9.1...

So its not the question of technology what is being launched, it is far away from being imaginable, i totally agree to that...
But where the point lies in is the availability and the feasibility...

--------------------------

rana_kirti

the 10.2 setup you heard was for which movie...??
And which amplifiers were used in the setup...

kindly elaborate for our updates, as i am still in the imagination that in India we dont have anything above 7.1 or 9.1(exceptional)...

Hi mridulgoel,

1. There are no Bluray discs which have 9.1 channels. 7.1 is the maximum.

2. 10.2 demo was done with Signs and Lord of the Rings.

3. Front, Center, Side Surrounds and a Single Back Surround. were powered by Yamaha RX V3067 which has 11.2 capability and come with 7 channels of built in amplicification. Front Heights and Rear Heights were powered by a Yamaha RX V3900 which was used as an external amplifier.

4. Front Center and Bipole Side Surrounds were custom made speakers. Front Heights, Rear Heights and Single Back Surround were Bose.

I invite acoustics to bring more details to the table about the speakers.

5. 7.2 AVRs are becoming very common now and i request owners to try out the Front Height option if theirs wifes are willing to allow the same

It will change the way you experience Home Cinema for ever.

6. For a select few who have a 9.2 or even a 11.2 AVR... What are you waiting for...? Get Front Heights and Rear Surrounds asap....!!!:clapping:

7. I have a 7 yr old Yamaha RX V450 which is a 6.1 AVR. Recently i decided to put a spare Yamaha NX-E130 speaker as a back surround and trust me it has made a "Huge" difference to my surround experience. The space besides my head's left and right and behind my head is now so much more expansive and enriched.

Dolby EX decoder brings out material from 5.1 movies and sends it to the Rear-Surround and it has added a completely new dimension to my movies.

I'm sure 2 Back Surrounds in a 7.1 AVR will give even better effect with Dolby IIx.

I sit a 15 feet and i have 4 feet behind my head. So one does need some space behind the couch/head for the Back surrounds to be effective...!

Warm Regards,

Rana

 

[sdurani]

Buddy

i am not talking about the technology...

...where the point lies in is the availability and the feasibility...

That's what I was talking about as well, buddy.

Availability: Unlike home theatres, commercial theatres don't use surround processing. And with no movies with 9.2 soundtracks available, you'll be seeing 9.2 at home before any commercial use.

Feasibility: Easier for a consumer to buy a used 9.2 AV receiver on eBay and add a couple of speakers than it is for commercial venues to retrofit height speakers in the auditorium.

Folks from India post in other forums too and I can tell you that they had 7.1 at home before any commercial venue. Enthusiast like Rana and his friend will be (already are) going beyond 7.1. So the notion that 9.2 and beyond automatically (by default) means commercial use is simply not true.

 

[sidvee]

My take on 7.1 and more:
1. I used to have a Yamaha rxv2092 receiver - back in 97 that offered front height channels in addition to 5.1 so in realty a matrixed 7.1 from existing 5.1 tracks. It worked suprisingly well especially when paired with the yamaha's own dsp settings suchas 70mm theater.
2. Eventually in a new room I did away with the front height and with a new setup of a B&K ref50 pre and parasound power, set up a 7.1 with rear and side speakers. Honestly I could never get the rear & side speakers set up correctly. Maybe my listening position 4' from rear wall was too close or some other issue. Regardless never enjoyed that setting as much.
3. Now back in India since my room is only 14' x 12' I am using 5.1 with dipoles in the rears and with the new HD formats it is sounding great.
4. I have a denon 2310 now which has the front height channels as well as rear (side and rear), but I am more inclined to try the front height than the rear - rear channels.
Cheers
Sid

 

[deepakgang]

Thats an interesting point as to which pair to use if one was to use 7 channels? the front highs or the rear ones...

 

[manoj.p]

My choice would be rear speakers. Height would be next, if I decide to go for 9.2.