Apple music to launch lossless streaming

[Analogous]

Looking for recommendations
While we wait (in a kind of bored way now) for Apple to get its act together I thought I would check out my Apple DAC dongle (lighting to 3.5mm) I found that it’s lost. The phone is iPhone XS.
I use IEMs (easy load)
Small form factor is better (dragonfly is big!)
Should be available to order online
Good SQ- should be able to handle the HiRes-Lossless rewards promised by the fruit company.
So please recommend away.

 

[souravin]

Deviating the topic to some extent with a personal experience.

Since I slowly shifted to portable gears for listening before I sleep, I found my Beyerdynamic DT Pro HP with iPad 3.5 mm jack is very very enjoyable over Apple Music. As Apple Lossless expectation is far from reality for us, I started a little experimentation and settled with storing HQ bollywood songs over iCloud (200GB), Dropbox and Gdrives. Listening through Cloudbeats (purchased from Apple Store) is very very smooth and SQ is fantastic to me. I'm more than happy. Just wanted to share for Apple users.

 

[chander]

Looking for recommendations
While we wait (in a kind of bored way now) for Apple to get its act together I thought I would check out my Apple DAC dongle (lighting to 3.5mm) I found that it’s lost. The phone is iPhone XS.
I use IEMs (easy load)
Small form factor is better (dragonfly is big!)
Should be available to order online
Good SQ- should be able to handle the HiRes-Lossless rewards promised by the fruit company.
So please recommend away.

are you looking for India only buy or US works too. Try Headphonezone, they have Ibasso etc - though most will be USB C so you will need a small lightning converter first. In terms of simplicity (not commenting on the SQ), nothing beats the apple dac dongle.

There is also NextDrive Spectra X - I had one - very cool thing, I lost it (if you are OK buying from US).

 

[Analogous]

are you looking for India only buy or US works too. Try Headphonezone, they have Ibasso etc - though most will be USB C so you will need a small lightning converter first. In terms of simplicity (not commenting on the SQ), nothing beats the apple dac dongle.

There is also NextDrive Spectra X - I had one - very cool thing, I lost it (if you are OK buying from US).

Thanks. NextDrive Spectra X looks interesting. Though a lightning converter is needed. You are right- for simplicity the
Apple dongle seems best. I ordered one.

 

[cooltoad]

I use this:

Lightning to 3.5mm Audio Jack + Charge

 

[Analogous]

I use this:

Lightning to 3.5mm Audio Jack + Charge

Useful utility for desktop charging and playback at same time

 

[stevieboy]

are you looking for India only buy or US works too. Try Headphonezone, they have Ibasso etc - though most will be USB C so you will need a small lightning converter first. In terms of simplicity (not commenting on the SQ), nothing beats the apple dac dongle.

There is also NextDrive Spectra X - I had one - very cool thing, I lost it (if you are OK buying from US).

I'll add to the simplicity benefit you've mentioned and say the apple lightning dongle has a built in dac that is very very underrated sound quality wise besides being a marvel of miniaturisation.

Regards

 

[msankadi]

built in dac that is very very underrated sound quality wise besides being a marvel of miniaturisation.

Hardly a marvel. You can try one plus usb c to 3.5mm jack, 1/3rd the price and not that big a difference in quality if at all(original not the duplicate) . Every adapter in the market is the same size. If you truly want a good dac better spend 2 3k more and get a proper dac

 

[chander]

Hardly a marvel. You can try one plus usb c to 3.5mm jack, 1/3rd the price and not that big a difference in quality if at all(original not the duplicate) . Every adapter in the market is the same size. If you truly want a good dac better spend 2 3k more and get a proper dac

I agree with you, the SQ is nothing to write home about and is almost the same as most competitors in the budget market, but it is perhaps the only reliable Lightning to 3.5mm adapter available. I used a few others from amazon and they would either die or the 3.5 mm jack will get loose or the rubber will fray away (in the cheaper price range), all within 2-3 months. My apple dongle is over a year old with no issues. Adding a lightning to USB C to USB C to 3.5 mm dongles just makes life a little more annoying in my opinion. The only exception being UGreen adapter which has been working for me but is almost double the price & bulkier - so no advantage there.

There are a lot better options available in the budget category for USB C to 3.5 but none in the lightning.

 

[stevieboy]

Hardly a marvel. You can try one plus usb c to 3.5mm jack, 1/3rd the price and not that big a difference in quality if at all(original not the duplicate) . Every adapter in the market is the same size. If you truly want a good dac better spend 2 3k more and get a proper dac

I spent way more than the 2-3k that you've suggested. I had the audioquest dragonfly red and a wadia 12 dac previously. However, I respect your opinion.

Regards

 

[Analogous]

I am surprised there is not a single option with a lightning connector and better DAC (with better SQ) than the Apple DAC dongle. Android (usb c and b) seem to have several options

 

[chander]

I agree with you, the SQ is nothing to write home about and is almost the same as most competitors in the budget market

I have to correct my statement here and agree with @stevieboy. I gave the Apple Dac Dongle (ADD) a full 2 days in A/B from my ipod. Listening to only ADD and nothing else and compare between the 3.5mm jack on iPOD with my IEMs.

I then added the budget lightning to 3.5mm dongles from amazon + the ugreen dongle (the comparison lasted another 2 days). And I have to say, the ADD is a marvel indeed. It colours the sound the least when compared to others and the slight coloration makes the sound more coherent/cleaner - but the signature remains almost identical to the 3.5mm jack of the iPOD. Now I have no way to Gain Match everything so all testing was done at a fixed level on the ipod. The cheap converters + the Ugreen (same price competition only - not including the big guns here like AQ DFs) - add their own sound signature specially to the lower and higher frequencies, making them surprising in the first listen and somewhat enjoyable, however once you pay attention you realise it isn't correct - specially the bass which is all over the place - atleast to what the iPOD intended the sound signature to be from their 3.5mm connection.

So for 900 Rs. (and sometimes around 750), you get the simplest, most convenient, cheapest, DAC that retains the signature (Trash in trash out), and only cleans the signal in the process (however slightly) - is indeed rare.

***I know when I say - "it sounds cleaner but doesn't colour the sound" it is an Oxymoron, I agree, but this is the best way for me to explain what I heard. The same budget dongles changed the sound to a very audible level, however, the ADD only somehow cleared a slight haze.

 

[Analogous]

I have to correct my statement here and agree with @stevieboy. I gave the Apple Dac Dongle (ADD) a full 2 days in A/B from my ipod. Listening to only ADD and nothing else and compare between the 3.5mm jack on iPOD with my IEMs.

I then added the budget lightning to 3.5mm dongles from amazon + the ugreen dongle (the comparison lasted another 2 days). And I have to say, the ADD is a marvel indeed. It colours the sound the least when compared to others and the slight coloration makes the sound more coherent/cleaner - but the signature remains almost identical to the 3.5mm jack of the iPOD. Now I have no way to Gain Match everything so all testing was done at a fixed level on the ipod. The cheap converters + the Ugreen (same price competition only - not including the big guns here like AQ DFs) - add their own sound signature specially to the lower and higher frequencies, making them surprising in the first listen and somewhat enjoyable, however once you pay attention you realise it isn't correct - specially the bass which is all over the place - atleast to what the iPOD intended the sound signature to be from their 3.5mm connection.

So for 900 Rs. (and sometimes around 750), you get the simplest, most convenient, cheapest, DAC that retains the signature (Trash in trash out), and only cleans the signal in the process (however slightly) - is indeed rare.

***I know when I say - "it sounds cleaner but doesn't colour the sound" it is an Oxymoron, I agree, but this is the best way for me to explain what I heard. The same budget dongles changed the sound to a very audible level, however, the ADD only somehow cleared a slight haze.

I think you have expressed it well @chander
After a search on line and here for a few days I bought a Apple DAC dongle. Rs. 900/-
I have not analysed or compared the sound with other portable DACs (I don’t have any) but I am really liking the sound.
I have not the faintest idea of what is inside or what all it’s capable of (MQA?…spatial audio etc?) ; it sounds good.
Small form, decent sound, Rs.900/- ….what’s not to like!
I can see why there are so few small iPhone DACs alternatives.

 

[chander]

what all it’s capable of (MQA?…spatial audio etc?)

It isn't MQA capable, MacWorld says it does Spatial Audio, though I haven't tried. I have compared it to AQ DF all three colours and NextDrive Spectra X etc, obviously with Cobalt being over 3000% the price, a comparison isn't fair (also DFs are amps too), so leaving it out of the discussion is the best course of action - not to trigger an irrelevant discussion. In the same price range and specially a lightning to 3.5mm I doubt there is anything better at the moment (I haven't obviously tried everything).

**Things like SpectraX need you to also include a lightning to USB C connector in the chain, which might have an impact on the sound in a direct comparison. Which again isn't fair.

 

[stevieboy]

@Analogous if you're interested in seeing what's inside and the measurements here you go. I came across these sites while checking on the specs of the airport express which I now use. These measurements confirm what my ears were telling me irrespective of the small size of the dongle.

Inside Apple’s New Audio Adapter | iFixit News

The decision to axe the iPhone’s built-in headphone port and simply put an adapter in the box has provoked reactions ranging from amusement to near panic.

www.ifixit.com

Apple Lightning Adapter Audio Quality Measurements

Apple Audio Adapter Review - The One To Beat • Music For The Masses

A thorough review of the Apple audio adapter (both Lightning and USB-C versions) by Jürgen Kraus.

www.audioreviews.org

There is another measurements review from audio science review website but I can't find it.

@chander reports say it also contains an amp in addition to the dac, to amp the signal to your headphones and its output impedance is very close to ideal around 0.9 if I remember right. In contrast I just discovered the headphone output from my Macbook is <24 ohms and some say 10 ohms and my cheapie sony headphones have a terrible bass imbalance via the laptop, sounding muddy and muffled, a characteristic which I thought was inherent to the headphones, but which disappears when I play through the lightning dongle through my phone due to its better output impedance. Went through a steep learning curve on impedances and how they interact to affect frequencies in playback. So I just ordered the USBC to 3.5mm adaptor which also has similar ideal low output impedance to listen to apple music on my laptop.

Regards

 

[Analogous]

@Analogous if you're interested in seeing what's inside and the measurements here you go. I came across these sites while checking on the specs of the airport express which I now use. These measurements confirm what my ears were telling me irrespective of the small size of the dongle.

Inside Apple’s New Audio Adapter | iFixit News

The decision to axe the iPhone’s built-in headphone port and simply put an adapter in the box has provoked reactions ranging from amusement to near panic.

www.ifixit.com

Apple Lightning Adapter Audio Quality Measurements

Apple Audio Adapter Review - The One To Beat • Music For The Masses

A thorough review of the Apple audio adapter (both Lightning and USB-C versions) by Jürgen Kraus.

www.audioreviews.org

There is another measurements review from audio science review website but I can't find it.

@chander reports say it also contains an amp in addition to the dac, to amp the signal to your headphones and its output impedance is very close to ideal around 0.9 if I remember right. In contrast I just discovered the headphone output from my Macbook is <24 ohms and some say 10 ohms and my cheapie sony headphones have a terrible bass imbalance via the laptop, sounding muddy and muffled, a characteristic which I thought was inherent to the headphones, but which disappears when I play through the lightning dongle through my phone due to its better output impedance. Went through a steep learning curve on impedances and how they interact to affect frequencies in playback. So I just ordered the USBC to 3.5mm adaptor which also has similar ideal low output impedance to listen to apple music on my laptop.

Regards

@stevieboy, thank you for sharing this. I read it with interest. The frequency response and harmonic response measurement by Ken Rockwell are amazing numbers.

 

[chander]

@chander reports say it also contains an amp in addition to the dac, to amp the signal to your headphones and its output impedance is very close to ideal around 0.9 if I remember right. In contrast I just discovered the headphone output from my Macbook is <24 ohms and some say 10 ohms and my cheapie sony headphones have a terrible bass imbalance via the laptop, sounding muddy and muffled, a characteristic which I thought was inherent to the headphones, but which disappears when I play through the lightning dongle through my phone due to its better output impedance. Went through a steep learning curve on impedances and how they interact to affect frequencies in playback. So I just ordered the USBC to 3.5mm adaptor which also has similar ideal low output impedance to listen to apple music on my laptop.

Brilliant! I sadly do not understand measurements, I have been learning to read them with no real result as I wanted to try the room measurement mic - mini DSP type. In terms of impedance I understand it in terms of speaker requirements and earphone/headphone requirements but do not understand it at this level.

I have been searching for some easy to understand resources, if you have any please DM me. Thanks!

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Looking for recommendations
While we wait (in a kind of bored way now) for Apple to get its act together I thought I would check out my Apple DAC dongle (lighting to 3.5mm) I found that it’s lost. The phone is iPhone XS.
I use IEMs (easy load)
Small form factor is better (dragonfly is big!)
Should be available to order online
Good SQ- should be able to handle the HiRes-Lossless rewards promised by the fruit company.
So please recommend away.

The dongle from Apple is excellent imo. I use a chord mojo, apart from the loudness, I found it similar in terms of sound. I had a dragonfly red before the mojo, to me it’s a different sound profile, but not anything completely superior to the 900 bucks dongle. I use the dongle always on the go, as it’s capable to power any “normal” earphone with authority.

 

[DB1989]

The dongle from Apple is excellent imo. I use a chord mojo, apart from the loudness, I found it similar in terms of sound. I had a dragonfly red before the mojo, to me it’s a different sound profile, but not anything completely superior to the 900 bucks dongle. I use the dongle always on the go, as it’s capable to power any “normal” earphone with authority.

That’s high praise indeed. And I thought the ifi zen dac was incredible value. Budget DACs are becoming increasingly good… after reading this and considering my end goals, i just decided against getting a higher end DAC.

 

[bluestar]

whats the final word on this ? Anyone know when it is being released in India ? I can't seem to play it from my iphone. Also the apple music interface is the worst, you cant even access its settings easily and see what quality is playing.