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Boycott Chinese goods - Is it possible

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RaahulT

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How long a gestation period? India's big corporate groups have been in the list of some of the biggest in the world for quite some time.
Name some indigenous technology any of these corporates have developed!
Even Ambani is trying to ride on the back of Google and Facebook after having killed the competition by brute force. I understand that this is business for these corporates but as a nation what have we have gained from these corporates?
You talked about govt support but I am sorry hoe much govt support these corporates need? Right from the independence these corporates enjoyed protectionism and then in the 90s huge subsidies were given to exporters. What have these companies to show for this govt support?

While I acknowledge some of the points mentioned;
We need to arrive at root causes which are responsible for this state of affairs instead of drawing conclusions at once.
 

Neeraj0272

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While I acknowledge some of the points mentioned;
We need to arrive at root causes which are responsible for this state of affairs instead of drawing conclusions at once.
I don't know about you but I have been following economic and political policies of various Indian governments for the past 35 years. So my conclusions haven't been 'drawn at once".
Also I have 'arrived' at root causes responsible for this state of affairs but these root causes are not palatable to us and instead we find easy escape routes like 'boycott China', "Make in India', 'Mera Bharat Mahan' , over-population etc. In doing this we play into the hands of politicians + corporates + bureaucracy who are themselves responsible for this state of affairs.
My conclusions are:
1. Our education system which is rote based
2. over-reliance on English
3. ethnic, religious & cultural values
and many more.
 

kingshuk

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bANGALORE
The recent Doklam standoff has suddenly increased a sense of patriotism and suddenly there is a surge of boycotting Chinese products.However as per WTO it is impossible to impose a ban on importing.It is also not viable to ban cause we not only import but we export too.
We do depend a lot on Chinese products and electronics is not the only one.We rely on them for a major portion of pharmaceutical products. They are in the steel sector, Indian startup companies (investments) and so on.
However there are ways where we can stop relying on them for quite a few things. Start importing from other countries till we are able to establish manufacturing which will take some time.
Infrastructure costs should be made viable.
Encourage domestic producers through tariffs on finished products.
Skilled labor is required.
Consumer Awareness (it was good to see that Country of origin is required to be mentioned )
Promote Indian products.
I am sure there are a lot of things that can be done and avoided.I do feel that we can make a conscious choice and make sure we don't use apps like tiktok, or buy electronics which is not required especially things like Diwali diyas, idols etc. High cost is an issue but we can start somewhere. I understand that things like 'boycott China', "Make in India', 'Mera Bharat Mahan' etc might be playing into politicians/ bureaucrats hands, but as a consumer I am ready to let go of things which are not essential /or there might be an alternative.
 

Neeraj0272

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first of all most of the measures you have suggested have already been used by India since our independence culminating in the catastrophic events of 1990 when our gold had to be mortgaged. Though admittedly these measures haven't been targeted against a particular country. So your suggestions of general measures won't work especially as more and more of the global trade is getting internationalized. In effect it will put India on backfoot if we adopt restrictive trade policies.
Now if were to take specific measures against China then two points come to my mind:
1. there will be some financial implications i.e Indian consumer will pay a little more for products which in the grand scheme shouldn't matter much. Or maybe we would be altogether deprived of some products. But this is just minor inconvenience on the alter of nationalism!
2. But i think this is a slippery slope and vested interests will start clamoring for protectionism in the disguise of make in India, swadeshi etc.
What i feel is that we shouldn't take half measures against China where we are selective in taking actions against Chinese businesses. What message does it give? Are we at war with China? Is China our enemy? If yes then why this selective approach? Why are BBK Electronics Corporation and other Chinese companies selling their phones but some Chinese app are banned? Can't these phone manufacturers steal data of Indian customers? This is the premise US is using against huawei!
And the symbolism of banning some businesses wont work against China which due to its land size, population size and economic size will retain her eminence in International arena.
We all know that it is Trump in US who is making noises against China for the sake of his reelection. After the US elections it will be business as usual.
 

alpha1

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My conclusions are:
1. Our education system which is rote based
2. over-reliance on English
3. ethnic, religious & cultural values
and many more.
1. Perhaps to some extent but not really. Education system is only for training children - even the system followed in western world has its elements of "going by the book" Basically the concept of school is to "go by the book".
2. How?
3. This is the most important point. The culture and attitude of Americans is completely different from Indians. Europeans midway, but closer to Americans.
 

RaahulT

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Messages
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My conclusions are:
1. Our education system which is rote based
2. over-reliance on English
3. ethnic, religious & cultural values
and many more.

1. Yes
2. No. India already has many languages and sizeable english speaking nos.
3. Not really. Only cultural that too the influences brought in due to colonial rulers.

Education system under british did change the mind set , influenced the culture, choked the native r & d.

4. Skillset that enabled Ancient and medieval India to Ace the world trade is gone

5. Over reliance on imported tech and goods ( even in agri sector)

6. Faultful Population management

7. Politicians- Corporate nexus (Lack of corporate (&) governance)

8. Broken connect between the bureaucracy and the governed

9. Rare promising talents killed by corruption

Sure there must be many more
 

Neeraj0272

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1. Perhaps to some extent but not really. Education system is only for training children - even the system followed in western world has its elements of "going by the book" Basically the concept of school is to "go by the book".
2. How?
3. This is the most important point. The culture and attitude of Americans is completely different from Indians. Europeans midway, but closer to Americans.
1. I would say that even after hundred of years of modern education, we are nowhere near doing anything innovative and when cream of our educated are IAS and when we look at the state of our bureaucracy then surely that's the biggest proof that our education system has failed.
2. As English is not the first language of Indians, we all have to first think in our mother tongue and then translate it to English. Besides killing the creative and thereby innovative thinking tool in all of us, it deprives India to use its population to its advantage as majority of us can not learn English and pursue higher education.
3. I think it's a matter of research why European countries and US were able to produce scientific temperament whereas older civilisations remained stagnant and didn't produce scientific temperament.
 

Neeraj0272

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1. Yes
2. No. India already has many languages and sizeable english speaking nos.
3. Not really. Only cultural that too the influences brought in due to colonial rulers.

Education system under british did change the mind set , influenced the culture, choked the native r & d.

4. Skillset that enabled Ancient and medieval India to Ace the world trade is gone

5. Over reliance on imported tech and goods ( even in agri sector)

6. Faultful Population management

7. Politicians- Corporate nexus (Lack of corporate (&) governance)

8. Broken connect between the bureaucracy and the governed

9. Rare promising talents killed by corruption

Sure there must be many more
3. What influences are you talking about? Modern world is going to be more and more integrated and these influences are normal course of flow. I will like you to give some examples of native r&d happening before the Brits came to India.
4. Also please give examples how India aced world trade?
 

RaahulT

Active Member
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Oct 15, 2018
Messages
106
Points
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Location
Nagpur & Sipat
What influences are you talking about? Modern world is going to be more and more integrated and these influences are normal course of flow.

Basic Purpose of British colonialism was to economic; to find sources of raw materials for their factories, markets for their finished goods and evangelical activities. Their implented policies to that end which included changing of education system, killing of competition (as happened to silk/cotton industry, suppression of skills), bringing about changes in consumer behaviour and so many more.

Basic difference between intergration in Modern times and that era is today it out of need/interdependance/technological/unavoidable. That time it was oneway, coerced and forced.

I will like you to give some examples of native r&d happening before the Brits came to India.

When we hear words like science and R&D in the context of India, we are bound to get surprised. But there are so many evidences which points to the excellence achieved in many areas.
1. Recent one we come to know Tipu experimented with rockets
2. Sushrut gives details about anatomy and doctorate which is not possible without r&d.
3. Iron pillar points to metallurgy.
4. Construction of Taj Mahal, Jantar Mantar, Jal mahal, Kailasa temple, so many surviving temples in South India (Praveen Mohan videos on you tube are good) indicates buidling tech
5. Perfection in Grammer of Sankrit
6. Bhaskar, Aryabhatt, Varahmihir, Ramanuj in maths
there was a proper tradition of Gurukuls in every village and schools like Nalanda, Taxila in many states. Also family professions contributed to cheving perfection in those work. Check the work on ancient gold ornments and things .. its uality cannot be achieved today. This was through obsevation and experimentation at that time.

This process got disturbed when social changes hppened

4. Also please give examples how India aced world trade?

There are several study papers by PhD scholars which indicates India had almost 25% share in world GDP till 18th Century. Europe including England and Dutch used to import majority from of their Asian import from India.
In fact, the quests of Columbus and Vasco da Gama was for finding shortest sea routes to India so that their countries can benefit economically. During Mughals, India was still a leader and manufacturing center in textiles, shipbuilding, steel, medicinal products.
Gujarat, Kerala, Tamilnadu, Odisha were prominent trade ports.
Self-reliance of each village used to be a backbone of state economy.
 

sidvee

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Joined
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Location
Hyderabad
All is forgotten. Commerce and greed triumphs over everything else.
Cheers,
Sid
There was a huge outcry on this all-over, so today I read reports that Vivo will be pulling out of the sponsorship this year. However there were indications that they can take up sponsorship in the upcoming years - I guess when we become bhai-bhai with the Chinese again.
Cheers,
Sid
 

kingshuk

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
82
Points
18
Location
bANGALORE
first of all most of the measures you have suggested have already been used by India since our independence culminating in the catastrophic events of 1990 when our gold had to be mortgaged. Though admittedly these measures haven't been targeted against a particular country. So your suggestions of general measures won't work especially as more and more of the global trade is getting internationalized. In effect it will put India on backfoot if we adopt restrictive trade policies.
Now if were to take specific measures against China then two points come to my mind:
1. there will be some financial implications i.e Indian consumer will pay a little more for products which in the grand scheme shouldn't matter much. Or maybe we would be altogether deprived of some products. But this is just minor inconvenience on the alter of nationalism!
2. But i think this is a slippery slope and vested interests will start clamoring for protectionism in the disguise of make in India, swadeshi etc.
What i feel is that we shouldn't take half measures against China where we are selective in taking actions against Chinese businesses. What message does it give? Are we at war with China? Is China our enemy? If yes then why this selective approach? Why are BBK Electronics Corporation and other Chinese companies selling their phones but some Chinese app are banned? Can't these phone manufacturers steal data of Indian customers? This is the premise US is using against huawei!
And the symbolism of banning some businesses wont work against China which due to its land size, population size and economic size will retain her eminence in International arena.
We all know that it is Trump in US who is making noises against China for the sake of his reelection. After the US elections it will be business as usual.

I am not entirely sure which points you are referring to. The economic crisis of 1991 was due to Balance of Payment Crisis which was due to
Soviet Union split into 15 nations. Exports suffered as they were the primary buyers.
Gulf war and 1990 oil price shock.
Some incompetent leaders and scams
Huge customs duty which was eventually reduced after Narasimha Rao took over.
Import Licensing
Production licensing etc.

Eventually a new leadership relaxed a bunch of these laws and macroeconomic stabilization policies which helped the economy to sustain.
The emphasis here is reducing dependency on China. As i mentioned earlier banning is impossible as per WTO rules and
not viable.
JSW group has already stated that they will stop annual imports from China which is around USD 400 million in the next 24 months.
West Bengal Trade association has stated that India will take a couple of years to manufacture goods as a substitute for Chinese items but they want an alternate supply source,
1. I agree that any measures taken will have a financial implication.
2. I don.t see anything bad about make in India or Swadeshi. We are loosing handicrafts.
3. We cannot just ban companies from any country cause we do not like it unless there is a valid reason like data theft, privacy issues, environmental issues. I have not used any of the apps that were banned but seeing some tiktok videos , i don't think it was bad lol.

We are not at war with China and neither are they our enemy currently, but India cannot be dependent on China and simultaneously have border tiffs with them.
What US did with Huwaei could just be a master stroke. Worlds 2nd largest smartphone maker blacklisted , lost ties with major companies. It is not in a very good position. Similarly if India can stop Huwaei from entering the 5G network in India, it is a big step.
Let China retain its international presence , but we must reduce dependency on them.

On a lighter note hopefully we see more Japanese , European, US brands here . 0 duties , let it be charged to Chinese brands :D
 

DB1989

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Joined
Apr 6, 2020
Messages
1,075
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113
Location
New Delhi
We should not boycott chinese goods if there aren’t better options at similar price points. Why should we stifle competition when globalisation is the need for the hour, not just commercially but ideologically as well, especially when everyone (well, most world leaders) is indulged in a non stop barrage of rhetoric promoting bigotry, divisiveness and xenophobia. No good is going to come out of boycotting chinese goods or festering ill will against it. If boycott of chinese goods is required in view of chinese aggression, India can very well do it under Article XXI of the GATT (security exceptions). This is a decision to be taken by OUR elected Representatives for protecting Indias sovereign interests. We can do our part by discharging our civic duties promptly (lets just pay the taxes that are due in full and on time without trying to find every conceivable loophole to save a few bucks) and researching and informing ourselves about legitimate effective measures that can actually be taken if Chinese exports are harming Indian interests.

Rather, the focus should be on achieving competitiveness. A global supply chain ensures efficiency and is beneficial to the End consumer. We should laud china for achieving such cost competitiveness and ease of doing business as rightly pointed out by an FM in an earlier post in this thread. In india, starting a business is the stuff of nightmares. Getting permissions and clearances in India takes forever. The example of technocrat is a great example of why china is ahead. Its not pragmatic to boycott chinese goods. We should promote and reward competitiveness and leave politics to the politicians.

Case in point, out of 1097 tariff items at the 4 digit level in our Customs Tariff, India imported goods under 1068 tariff items from China which is far more than any other country. This clearly demonstrates our huge dependency on China.

i have worked closely with various chinese industries. They are incredibly sincere and extremely efficient. Plus, the govt. really supports their industries.

Now herein lies the problem. Most times, the support extends well beyond just ease of doing business such as clearances and permissions by the Chinese government. Most Chinese industries do not work on market economy principles despite having joined the World Trade Organisation in 2001. They do not operate on principles of supply and demand and there is huge state support in the form of subsidies (whether through direct payments or duty foregone etc), low interest rates, lax bankruptcy laws etc. These measures have helped them lower costs to an unnatural degree. Therefore, even the Chinese Accession protocol to the WTO allows for other countries to consider it as a non market economy. As i stated earlier, boycotting goods when there is no viable alternative in the domestic market of India only harms consumers and achieves zilch. You'll simply be moving Indias balance of trade from that of China to other countries which does not make any economic sense to my mind.

Rather, to nullify the unfair advantage that Chinese goods have, especially if they are injuring the domestic industry of similar or directly competitive products in India or are materially retarding it establishment, the Indian Industry should approach the government (Directorate General of Trade Remedies) and have anti-dumping duties (under section 9A of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) or countervailing duties (Section 9 of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) imposed on such goods. This will ensure that if there is a legitimate Indian Industry for these products, the chinese goods won't be able to undercut Indian prices due to the unfair advantage that they enjoy.

I would urge everybody to do some research on why Reliance Industries is such a profitable venture (and its not just that they struck gold with Jio). They are by far the largest users of anti-dumping duties, countervailing duties and even safeguard duties (8B of the Customs Tariff Act, 1975) in India. People don't hear about them mostly because Reliance gets these measures imposed on basic raw materials and chemicals which we as end consumers do not deal with directly on a regular basis, if ever, but are present in every single commodity that we use.

Therefore, if the Indian Industry of the like domestic product (may it be amplifiers, speakers, DACS , what have you) is not bothered to safeguard their interests, why should we?

On the other hand, we should make our audio industry members aware that they have multiple options at their disposal if they so wish to legitimately compete in the Indian market. Imposition of duties on Chinese Hi fi products would increase their prices and nullify the unfair advantage that they have acquired through state support or otherwise, forcing the Indian customer to seriously look at Indian Hi Fi products as a viable alternative.

If not, why shouldn't we reap the benefits of low priced Chinese products?
 
Last edited:

keith_correa

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I dont get one thing here.

Why should i not buy Chinese stuff ? Its priced lower, its well made, so why should i not buy them ? Patriotism ?

This is laughable.
If it's better made and cheaper then I would laugh at you for not buying it. :p

As for patriotism, I like what Thomas Paine said: "The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government." :)
 
Last edited:

DB1989

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Messages
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I am not entirely sure which points you are referring to. The economic crisis of 1991 was due to Balance of Payment Crisis which was due to
Soviet Union split into 15 nations. Exports suffered as they were the primary buyers.
Gulf war and 1990 oil price shock.
Some incompetent leaders and scams
Huge customs duty which was eventually reduced after Narasimha Rao took over.
Import Licensing
Production licensing etc.

Eventually a new leadership relaxed a bunch of these laws and macroeconomic stabilization policies which helped the economy to sustain.
The emphasis here is reducing dependency on China. As i mentioned earlier banning is impossible as per WTO rules and
not viable.
JSW group has already stated that they will stop annual imports from China which is around USD 400 million in the next 24 months.
West Bengal Trade association has stated that India will take a couple of years to manufacture goods as a substitute for Chinese items but they want an alternate supply source,
1. I agree that any measures taken will have a financial implication.
2. I don.t see anything bad about make in India or Swadeshi. We are loosing handicrafts.
3. We cannot just ban companies from any country cause we do not like it unless there is a valid reason like data theft, privacy issues, environmental issues. I have not used any of the apps that were banned but seeing some tiktok videos , i don't think it was bad lol.

We are not at war with China and neither are they our enemy currently, but India cannot be dependent on China and simultaneously have border tiffs with them.
What US did with Huwaei could just be a master stroke. Worlds 2nd largest smartphone maker blacklisted , lost ties with major companies. It is not in a very good position. Similarly if India can stop Huwaei from entering the 5G network in India, it is a big step.
Let China retain its international presence , but we must reduce dependency on them.

On a lighter note hopefully we see more Japanese , European, US brands here . 0 duties , let it be charged to Chinese brands :D
JSW (and other steel companies) is another great example of a company using trade remedy measures to great effect to nullify the unfair advantage that Chinese companies enjoy. I also see a lot of FMs from Chennai. Companies based out of tamil nadu are also big on using trade remedy measures against China.
 
Last edited:

DB1989

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Messages
1,075
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113
Location
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There are lot of news floating around suggesting fellow citizens to boycott Chinese origin products. So i presume they also apply to AV gear.

IME, its now become very difficult to trace the origin of goods until you bought them. For instance, the Marantz BR player purchased 1.5 years ago was made in China. I last year also purchased washing machine (LG) which was manufactured in Pune and a Hitachi window AC which was also manufactured in India (as per label). But so called Indian brands like VU TV (Hi-sense) and Bluestar AC, Godrej AC (China Sourced) are directly sourced from China and had manufactured in China labels. Last week i bought a Altec Lansing Bluetooth sound box assuming that they are a US/French brand will not be manufactured in China. But after it landed it was manufactured in P.R.C.

So even if we want to avoid anything manufactured in China, unless the dealers/ distributors themselves declare the origin of the goods, it become next to impossible for consumers to boycott Chinese made goods. Even most Indian brands are re-branded and sourced from China and is not a good indicator.

Will like FMs inputs / tips for how to avoid Chinese products given the state of affairs

PS: This post is not for those who are okay with buying goods from Chinese origin and can skip this post without commenting.
Origin of goods is a slippery slope. I would urge you to look into Free Trade Agreements that India has entered into with other countries wherein the principles of determination may differ depending on the value addition and process involved in the country of export/manufacture. A treaty regarding the origin of goods was sought to be agreed upon under the auspices of the WTO between its members but could never be finalised due to lack of consensus.

When you are using Indian made audio products or those from other countries, more often than not, they would have used some component or the other which would have been derived from China and if not the components, the raw materials that go into making these components. China is into the manufacturing and supply of every conceivable commodity unless the same is a natural resource which is not available within its political boundaries.
 

ktks1

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Jun 11, 2019
Messages
347
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Location
Bengaluru

An Indian manufacturer of audio products is beating its Chinese rivals by manufacturing in China​

boAt held a 37% share of the personal audio products segment in India in 2020.​


We must understand at least two things from this:
1. Stop worrying about 'Made in China' tag. Our manufacturing sector simply isn't up there to compete
2. Try to support brands whose origin is based in India. Not all of them appeal to audiophiles. There are few really good ones which provide value for money, but lack reviews.
 
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