Budget Speakers Auditioned-A noobs Take

[dinyaar]

Hi Hifiplayer,

Yes i dont think much of a CA amplifier. I feel they lack drive. Have heard the 640 and the earlier avatars too and the amplifier would peak very early and clip when confronted by anything apart from the easiest loads. Have heard cheaper/smaller amps from Nad/marantz/denon with more drive. A cdp may be good but since i am biased i rarely hear or recommend them. Maybe the 840 is a good amp but at that price point am sure there are more competent options.

Since u are yet to buy u can surely audition a CA alongwith other amps. Its only a personal preference and hence u may or may not agree.

Rgds

 

[Hifiplayer]

dinyaar:

I am from Delhi & the HiFi industry is still establishing itself in this part of the country. There is hardly any store over here which would keep multiple brands to get a demo from. Brands like PSB, MA , NAD, Tannoy, Kef & many other brands are not yet available over (or if they are then i am not aware). Although recently i got to know that one can buy NAD & Kef from Delhi but then they are not available for any demo.

My personal knowledge of Hifi systems is very minimal & have to rely mostly upon the internet or the Magazines available here. That's why all the confusion as it is very difficult to compare two brands.

Thus the reviews & opinions on forum are extremely valuable.

Thank you for your suggestion. Will definitely try & look into some more brands.

 

[magma]

Magma - I must say that I am surprised with your recent reviews. While conceding the fact that individual experiences will be different owing to differing preferences, I feel that speaker characteristics such as bass response may not change much.

The MS904i is not even a patch on the Wharfedale Diamond 9.5's bass response. When the Wharfedale SW150 subwoofer is paired with the 9.5s you almost get the feeling that the subwoofer is not upto the floorstanders' bass response! About the MS tweeter, yes if you are a fan of very forward biased tweeters, these could be it. However I suggest you listen to the voices of, say, Lata Mangeshkar or Chitra on the MS and let us know if you think they are still speakers that you can listen to in the long term. Or you could even try some violins.

Lastly the Jamo Concert series are in fact in a different class of speakers from what we have been discussing in this thread for the most part. The C405 is a midsize floorstander of amazing clarity with a lovely midrange. However I distinctly remember being quoted 40K for this speaker. If it is indeed 29K as you say, this should be a slam dunk! This is a far better speaker than the others you would get for around 30K. It may not have as much bass response as the 9.5 but it does most other things very very well. Especially the midrange.

As for the Denon integrated amp, my complaints lie in the area of clarity and details. A comparatively priced Marantz or CA amp sounds better any day. The Denon's strength though is bass. It brings out bass better than the other two amps.

As for your final choice I would still choose the BR2 if I were you. The B15, while it can be used as a front speaker, is mostly used as a surround speaker. I also am surprised that you have not auditioned the Alpha B1 till now. They are well within your price range and have a lot of good things to offer. What you sacrifice with the bass in BR2 (which is not much, really) you get back in the midrange. The PSB may be a tad more sensitive which explains the movie sound effects you talk about, but the BR2s are no slouch. For vocals I would still prefer the PSB - they have a slight forward bias for voice that I have come to love, but instead of the Image B15, I would look at the Alpha B1 to see if it satisfies you. If not, the B15 can come into the picture. The BR2 is an untiring speaker. I have listened to a Marantz - BR2 combo and it is very satisfying. It may not be the most immediately impressive combination but it is certainly good for long term listening.

It is also important to finalize on the amp at this stage. Your preference about the amp may help narrow down the speaker choice as well. Hope this helps.

hello sir

first off let me explain on your surprise between the 9.5 warfedale and 904 avant comparison
the warfedales were auditioned with a CA amp and not the NAD as i posted.
bass with the NAD must be higher
while the MS 904 was auditioned with a denon whose bass i felt was more

next and most importantly i sat only 3.5-4 feet away when auditioning the MS904 . also both speakers were kept only 3 feet apart( i think ive mentioned this in my review and hence i would like to review them again) whereas i was more than 10 feet away from the warfedale.

you may argue that positioning have nothing to do with feeling the bass.maybe it doesnt- but i felt it did


Next about the price of the JAmo C405.
yes im sure its for 29k ( this was with heavy bargaining and this is the same source where i was quoted 22k for a warfedale 9.5 )
yes this speaker i think at this price would win when comared to all floorstanders at that price range

Agreed on the clarity of the denon vs the CA and marantz
but as i said music is subjective and i find marantz bright.
secondly when im considering bookshleves i would like to have a bassy amp (at least i can squeeze every drop of bass of those 5 inch drivers)
(yes if its floorstanders i would think of a CA/marantz)


i will audition the Alpha on your recommendation
thank you kind sir
However you should remember that the alpha is rear ported and i plan to keep my speakers only 3 inches away from the rear wall

i have decided on the amp
its the NAd
i may consider the denon only if i dont find a NAd pre owned/demo pc ( basically a pc thats not MRP!)

thanks again for your inputs

 

[magma]

@hifiplayer

magazine reviews-dont trust
my reviews - dont trust
yor ears- TRUST

use the first two only to know what options are availble use the third to decide.

Dont fret that you dont have so many choices in your city ( though i doubt that for a place like delhi)
actually its better that way! see how confused i am now. i like 4 speakers!

if youre in delhi you definetley can audition Kef, Tannoy F1,Warfedale and MS
in amps you must have denon and CA

these are all the options you need.
just hear a few combos and you'll know

Lastly if dinyaar and me dont lke CA its just us . there are many member who love CA.
everyone likes marantz except me- im the odd man out - so what

dont you see music is subjective

Iadvice you to audition some KEf with denon
tannoy with Denon (if nad not possible)
MS 904 with CA or denon

best of luck

 

[vinod_david]

Hi Hifiplayer,

Yes i dont think much of a CA amplifier. I feel they lack drive. Have heard the 640 and the earlier avatars too and the amplifier would peak very early and clip when confronted by anything apart from the easiest loads. Have heard cheaper/smaller amps from Nad/marantz/denon with more drive. A cdp may be good but since i am biased i rarely hear or recommend them. Maybe the 840 is a good amp but at that price point am sure there are more competent options.

Since u are yet to buy u can surely audition a CA alongwith other amps. Its only a personal preference and hence u may or may not agree.

Rgds

Dinyaar:

Rightly said on CA lacking drive. I too feel the same with my CA 640A V2 driving MA RS6, it just lacks drive. I also came to conclusion that may be CA amps apart from 840, just don't have any grip on the rhythm at all, may be they are all good for standmount, definitely not for FS. I've not heard 840, but maybe they will tick all boxes wich all other amps lacks in their family.

All IMO.

 

[thevortex]

hello sir

first off let me explain on your surprise between the 9.5 warfedale and 904 avant comparison
the warfedales were auditioned with a CA amp and not the NAD as i posted.
bass with the NAD must be higher
while the MS 904 was auditioned with a denon whose bass i felt was more

next and most importantly i sat only 3.5-4 feet away when auditioning the MS904 . also both speakers were kept only 3 feet apart( i think ive mentioned this in my review and hence i would like to review them again) whereas i was more than 10 feet away from the warfedale.

you may argue that positioning have nothing to do with feeling the bass.maybe it doesnt- but i felt it did


Next about the price of the JAmo C405.
yes im sure its for 29k ( this was with heavy bargaining and this is the same source where i was quoted 22k for a warfedale 9.5 )
yes this speaker i think at this price would win when comared to all floorstanders at that price range

Agreed on the clarity of the denon vs the CA and marantz
but as i said music is subjective and i find marantz bright.
secondly when im considering bookshleves i would like to have a bassy amp (at least i can squeeze every drop of bass of those 5 inch drivers)
(yes if its floorstanders i would think of a CA/marantz)


i will audition the Alpha on your recommendation
thank you kind sir
However you should remember that the alpha is rear ported and i plan to keep my speakers only 3 inches away from the rear wall

i have decided on the amp
its the NAd
i may consider the denon only if i dont find a NAd pre owned/demo pc ( basically a pc thats not MRP!)

thanks again for your inputs

Magma - you may simply call me Vortex or Thevortex, whichever you prefer. No need to be very formal

I have heard the Wharfedale Diamonds with a Yamaha (both AVR as well as integrated), Marantz as well as with a CA. I have heard the MS Avants with the CA and the Marantz. Any which way I look at it, the MS Avants were no competition to the bass that was on offer with the Wharfedale. If it is bass you are after your choice is very clear - Diamond.

However if this is the price range you are looking at then the C405 make perfect sense. Grab them immediately. They are very very good speakers. They are easily better than speakers such as the MA BR5 and the KEF iQ5. And the Marantz-Jamo combo works really well.

If I may share my experience, the quest to draw out every ounce of bass out of a bookshelf - it is a losing battle. Eventually you are either going to change the speakers or add a subwoofer. That is the natural order of things. I would say that a rear ported speaker is probably better. You have said that you like boomy bass. A rear ported bookshelf separated by less than 6 inches from the rear wall means that you will be utilizing every bit of its bass capability. The bass may not be precise and that again is personal preference. You gain weight at the cost of precision.

If its the NAD you have decided on, people will say that the PSBs are natural partners. However I am not so sure. I have liked the PSBs better with Yamahas or Marantz'. The latter one I am partial to. The NAD in my opinion brings the PSB down to the BR2 levels under the pretext of taming it. This does depend on individual tastes to a great extent but I would not describe the NAD as being very detailed by any stretch of imagination. On the other hand, pairing the NAD with a speaker as detailed as the PSB may end up being what you like. I would still consider the BR2s as a realistic option if I were you even with the NADs. If it is a small room that you have, you will be surprised at the amount of bass even small bookshelves can summon.

 

[magma]

@
the vortex
um. did i say i liked "boomy bass" ?
oops then thats a huge mistake
i meant to convey that the avants 904 bass is a tad boomy but i can live with it.

i have not liked the marantz with the MA br2 or Tannoy i find it bright.

however even dinyaar is of the opinion that marantz may go well with PSB
i would love to try that option however the PSB dealer does not stock marantz and thats why i didnt get to hear that option and hence i completely ruled out marantz

i find it too risky to buy the PSB and marantz seperately and then hope for the best.

Another option would be to buy the PSB and carry the speaker to a marantz showroom
though i might loose quite a bit of discount that im expecting when i buy the NAD PSB combo from the same dealer i think this is worth a try if i select PSB

what marantz amp would you suggest for the PSB?
is the 4001 sufficient? because that all i can afford
used NAD 320 and 325 are easy to find at my target price however used marantz 6000 or 7000 series are difficult to come by

 

[thevortex]

Magma thats fine about the bass preference. Believe me you would extract every ounce of bass performance from a bookshelf (especially a rear ported) one if you have it close to the rear walls. I know many would not like it though. Do test this out in the demo room itself. However this would make sense only if the room is 'normal' and not sound proofed and/or almost anechoic.

About the 904 - I still dont get how you describe its bass as boomy. Its bass is actually dry. It barely sounds like a floorstander actually. Something like the Image B25 will wipe the floor with the 904 in every department including bass - despite the former being a bookshelf

For both the BR2 and the B15, the 4001 is going to be OK. Also a discount of a thousand or two should not keep you from having a well balanced system that can give you years of satisfaction. That is my personal view. Feel free to differ with it

 

[magma]

About the 904 - I still dont get how you describe its bass as boomy. Its bass is actually dry. It barely sounds like a floorstander actually. Something like the Image B25 will wipe the floor with the 904 in every department including bass - despite the former being a bookshelf

hmm i dont know what boomy means to others
to me uncontrolled bass thats a little loose and has an effect like drowning a vocal is boomy to me .
my cambridge 5.1 computer speakers have a proted sub. i call that bass boomy
the bass of a JBL gt5 12 inch bass tube is "boomy" to me

i find the avant 904 a bit boomy.

yes i agree the B25 having better bass- the reason is that its controlled and tighter

 

[thevortex]

hmm i dont know what boomy means to others
to me uncontrolled bass thats a little loose and has an effect like drowning a vocal is boomy to me .
my cambridge 5.1 computer speakers have a proted sub. i call that bass boomy
the bass of a JBL gt5 12 inch bass tube is "boomy" to me

i find the avant 904 a bit boomy.

yes i agree the B25 having better bass- the reason is that its controlled and tighter

OK we may just have to agree to disagree here. I consider the 904i's to be amongst the speakers with the lightest bass capability in this discussion. There just is not enough there. Well, maybe with the exception of the 902i's

 

[marsilians]

The term boomy bass is referred to the instance wherein the lower frequencies overwhelm the higher onces causing you to hear them much more prominently. Unless you are into Hip/Hop or rap wherein you need to have a constant stream of lower frequency beats, your bass should sound clear as appropriate in the music passage. It should also be transient (roll off very quickly) for music as otherwise it will sound very artificial and will not lead to pleasurable listening.

 

[thevortex]

The term boomy bass is referred to the instance wherein the lower frequencies overwhelm the higher onces causing you to hear them much more prominently. Unless you are into Hip/Hop or rap wherein you need to have a constant stream of lower frequency beats, your bass should sound clear as appropriate in the music passage. It should also be transient (roll off very quickly) for music as otherwise it will sound very artificial and will not lead to pleasurable listening.

Yes, marsilians, I understand. The 904i's unfortunately are extremely light in the bass department to sound anywhere near boomy. There is simply not the weight to overpower the somewhat strident tweeters of the MA Avant line. I have heard them with the CA as well as with the Marantz independently.

 

[vidrad]

Ok my recently acquired denon 1909 is acquiring dust with no speakers to pair with, frustrating to say the least.
I am looking for a 2.1 speaker set-up, and I am well... to say the least, horribly confused.
My shortlist for a front pair is:
- Polk Tsi 200: 2x5.25" mid/woofer 20-150w@ 8ohms 13.5K
- Wharfadale 9.1: 1x5" mid/woofer 20-100W@6ohms 11K
- Tannoy F1 Custom: 1x5" mid/woofer 10-70W@8ohms >14K

Leaving the pricing aside,
Looking at these specs to me the Polks wins hands down (more bass more power), followed by the Wharfadales and then the Tannoys.
This is where I need help, I have only heard the tannoys, and they sounded good, unfortunately I dont have the time to audition the others. I am so tempted on the polks just because of the specs, and I might be horribly wrong urghhhh!
For the powered sub woofer I was thinking of the Polk PSW110 around 11.5K.
Help me decide (fast), thanks!!
And again thanks to all of you to help me reach this point, from the PV80, to the pio 610 to the denon 1909, this is the last cog, your help again would be much appreciated.

 

[magma]

Specs are no way to judge a speaker
your ears are.

Strictly from my reviews ive liked the Tannoys the most from your list
Sub : polk maybe be fine but if youre looking for budget subs you should also try a warfedale SW150 sub

 

[gobble]

I heard two Polks a monitor and an RTi - didn't extend my listening session beyond 10 mins as I was convinced I would experience listening fatigue after an hour. So I went for the Wharfie 9.2 even though I wasn't convinced about them 100% in midrange clarity.

Wharfies are a really safe buy - you can't go wrong and wont regret after buying at their price points. Gives you time (like a couple of years) to decide if you really want to spend $$$ on an expensive speaker.

But its a matter of personal preference - I absolutely need sweet sounding speakers above all else.

You also want to try the Quad 11L bookshelf they are supposed to be sweet non-fatuiging without the "limitations" of the Wharfies (never heard them myself though).

So take care to listen before you decide

Cheers

 

[magma]

Hello all
i have been asked by many members to compare indian brands, and i too on my own part wanted to see how indian maufacturers stack up against the MNC competation
Myself being a manufacturer have always had a soft spot for things made in india

i have already reviewed sonodyne-i was not impressed

Nyway to start i visited Eastern Electronics (Norge)today on the invitation by Mr. Bajaj-who it seems reads up on our forum too!

First of let me say ( as many others have stated before) Mr Bajaj is a thorough gentlemen who builds audio more for passion than money.He like us too, asks the consumer to trust his ears and never pushes any product.

He was kind enough to let me audition all he had in his demo room.I was also invited to have a look at the insides of a couple amps in assembly line,and Mr bajaj explained how he manages to reduce costs without sacrificing on the quality of music.
Very transparent and logical.I couldnt help feeling that some MNC products are overpriced at times.

I had always thought of norge to be a serious contender to all budget hi-fi.
Today i was sure that it is,and is better too, than some.
Better or not, it definetely is more VFM than anything out there i have heard before
An amp for 10k which comes so close to a NAD 325 and rivals a denon PMA 500
Now that is VFM

I auditioned 3 sets of speakers and 2 amplifiers
each amplifier had something different to offer and so did each speaker.
I may be flamed for what i say now and many may not agree but its my opinion and i wont change it
MY EARS found certain norge speakers coupled with the Norge amps better than the highly acclaimed budget kings - MS 902i ,warfedale 9.1
In some aspects it betters the 9.2 too.

 

[magma]

First off

SPEAKER : The new Millenium speaker with a 6 inch driver and a 1 inch tweeter ( cost 10-10.5k)
AMP : Norge 2000 Mosfet (cost 10.5k)
CDP : Phillips CD 931

Build : the build quality was decent.the laminate was as good as the monitor audio.Better than the sonodynes
Terminals were small and could have been better.
No bi amping here.
All in all sturdy looking clean speakers

My Take : The first thing that struck me was the amazing bass the speaker produced.It was much better than most of the foreign brands ive seen.
Well it was expectd since this was a six inch driver , but i found out later that the amp had something to do with it as well
Anyway bass wise the speaker performs much better than the 9.2's
The other striking aspect were the vocals: i loved the vocals here, they were forward and were heard in front of the music- the way i like it. Reminded me of the PSB's anf the tannoys. Another point to the norges!
Uppper mids and highs- this is where the speaker lost out ( Later i found that this was due to the amp which was easily corrected when you change to a different model- but we'll discuss that later).



next was the smaller MD 75 speaker

SPEAKER : The MD75 a 5inch driver and a 1 inch tweeter ( cost 10-10.5k)
AMP : Norge 2000 Mosfet (cost 10.5k)
CDP : Phillips CD 931

BUild : this was the same as the above
My take : musically this speaker had crisper highs but at the expense of basss -expected from a 5 inch driver.
the speaker reminded me immediately of the 9.1 warfedale.Vocals were onceagain forward.
thespeaker is an easy listner and i would put it right up there with the 9.1's , maybe slightly higher too.
Better than the MS902i and better than the polks

 

[magma]

NOw i had a small discussion with Mr Bajaj and found that the Mosfet 2000 amp was built and designed to be more of a laid back amp and hence i was finding the detail missing in the highs.
MAybe this amp would fit just right with a monitor audio kind of speaker or for someone who really likes laid back sound

We then spoke about the concerto gold 1000
this amp has the same circuit as the accliamed 2060 from norge only the power amp transistor stage is heavier .
this is the amp i tried next

SPEAKER : The new Millenium speaker with a 6 inch driver and a 1 inch tweeter ( cost 10-10.5k)
AMP : Norge 2060 /concerto gold 1000 (i am comparing these amps at the insistance of mr bajaj who tells me the charecteistics are the same)
CDP : Phillips CD 931

My TAke
remember how i said this speaker lost out in the upper mids and highs
well this amp changed everything about that.
the mids and highs were back, they were nice and crisp.i loved it. vocals were the same .
Yes the bass had toned down a bit ( now i noticed the difference that amplfiers make!) but the music was warm and fatigue free.
Yes the PSB's and Tannoys ,Kefs, Quads are definetely more detailed , but for a beginner who doesnt miss these too much i think this is good package.
ALso note i heard the PSB tannoy etc with a NAD so the cost of them togther can easily be 35-40k whereas you get this combo for about 20k odd!-for that price diff a very small bit of detail may be sacrificed- this is ofcourse subjective)
i think this combination - the norge concerto gold 1000 with the Millenium 6 inch driver speaker is the most VFM setup i have heard yet!
it easily gives the warfedales a run for their money - actually i think it betters the warfedales 9.1 and 9.2!


SPEAKER : The MD 75
AMP : Norge 2060 /concerto gold 1000 (i am comparing these amps at the insistance of mr bajaj who tells me the charecteistics are the same)
CDP : Phillips CD 931

My take : well the mids at highs were at thier best here, bas was slighlly lacking and uninvolving and hence i vote the 6 inch milleniums over these.
i think the warfedales would win here in this setup


The MOSFET 2000 amp V/S the Norge concertoGold 1000
As you may have deduced from my speaker reviews the charecteristcs of these two amps differ
the mosfet is laid back and gives tremendous bass.it would need a more detialed speaker to pair well
The concerto gold is a more open amp with more detail and pairs better with the norge speakers and would do justice to warfedale and tannoy too.
result - the norge 1000 - I LIKE!!!

All in all kudus to mr bajaj . At last an indian manufacturer i like with truly VFM products
if anyone has a 20-25k budget i wouldnt blink in advicing norge

 

[Just_in]

Did you audition any floorstand speakers from Norge ?

 

[magma]

Did you audition any floorstand speakers from Norge ?

nope
theyve stopped their award winning floorstander for now.Mr bajaj says its temporary though.
its inventory related