Building my Home Theatre Room - Please guide me

[santhosh]

It is great to know that you too are making a av dedicated room, congratulations.

The sound proofing how much ever you may do, sound will still travel outside, indeed the best we can minimize it. Among the things which come to my mind are :

- Look for the areas from where sound could travel out, seal them with acoustic glass, with best rubber sealings.

- Acoustic tiles for the ceiling.

- The door should be of thick quality, use only hinges and not the floor stander.

- Walls should have glass wool, spunch, covered with fabric.

- Floor should have thick carpet.

The windows which you are having will not serve any purpose to you, it is better that you manage steel nerves and have it sealed with cement, by doing this it will increase the dynamic of your entertainment room in terms of looks and will help on the sound factor too.

In this civil work, please visualize what are the things you may like to add in the coming years, so make a provision for that now only, for example when my work was going on, i had made a provision for concealed cabling, if i ever want to connect the lap top via projector, and now only since last 15 days, i did that, and i am enjoying it, no cables are seen, and i am using my lap top via projector. In event if you require some changes etc to be done with the cables or wires, the area should be very easy to open and close. It is very important to keep a drawing of from where which cable and wire went, so that later on you know where exactly you need to work upon if the need arises.

Vinay.

Very useful post Vinay. Thanks for taking time and posting so much of information.

I am unable to completely remove the windows. The plan is to cover them with a second set of Sound-proof windows and an air-gap. They will be opened occasionally.

I think there should be 4 different set of lights, and they should have the dim option like halogen, you can have very options to set them at 25%, 50%, then you can do mix and match among them, a normal tube light or a fan should be a big no for such a theatre room, as it will spoil the grace. These should be controlled via remote control. There should be foot light, which can be used while you are watching a movie.

Vinay.

Thanks Vinay, I plan to have different sets (atleast 3 for now) of lighting. I cannot afford a remote yet. For now, I will have to live with a centralised switch box that will be in reach. I will have an A/C but will have a small portable fan when it is not possible/feasible to use A/C.

I think it is very important to put all efforts so that the sound leaks to the minimum, as i know the neighbours will start complaining, especially if we are fan of low frequencies, as we tend to increase the volume during action scenes, with such fair complains, we are not able to enjoy the full benefits of our set up, and the worst is if we watch movies in the night, the sound will travel faster to the neighbours.

Vinay.

I want the sound proofing to be as effective as possible. Can't stretch the neighbour's patience anymore.

It is important to install a door bell point in the entertainment room, as we may not hear the door bell, once the system is in action.

Vinay.

One thing that I had planned, but was wondering what you folks use. Do you have some kind of a light that distracts your attention?

I think that the star lights are quite expensive and to maintain them could be a pain, what if some of them does not work, etc.

Let us see, for now I have decided to stick to the "diffuser" of a ceiling that I have. Maybe I'll do a DIY using LEDs sometime.

On the other hand for whatever you and some members have written are in the right direction, therefore i think there is a zero point to go to a professional, the world is a better place, when we do it ourself with the help of leading forum members.

Vinay.

Thanks for the encouragement Vinay. I am enjoying every bit of this build and learning a lot in the process.

A raised sitting arrangment will be a great idea, with minimum 2 steps.

Most of the av equipments on and of button should be centeralized.

Vinay.

Since I have only a length of 15 feet, I am not able to do a raised seating arrangment. Yes, the equipment and switches are centralised. I have also provided empty conduits for many future technologies which are "unknown" at this point.

 

[skumar]

One thing that I had planned, but was wondering what you folks use. Do you have some kind of a light that distracts your attention?

I think a decent (read as one of the high pitched electronic ones) door bell unit installed in the HT room will definitely catch your attention. This should be wired in parallel to the bell unit in your hall/living room.

 

[raj]

Guess what, the company that Praveen represents is none other than ANUTONE. It was nice to visit their factory at Whitefield and have a look at how the boards are made. I will be buying woodwool board from them. Lemme know when you are back in town.

Santhol
How much do these boards cost per square feet? Can you post some information on what products/options you saw? Thanks.

 

[vinay]

santhol2,

It gives me joy that you appreciate my efforts.

Please guide me why you can not remove the windows completely, i repeat think of the benefits without a window which i have told you, please read the earlier post my carefully.

It is good that you have 3 set of lights, but please do put 2 more sets of lights, the cost is not much, but the benefit is very large. The remote set up will not cost much. Please drop the fan, Treat A/C is a fan, keep the speed to lower on basis of fan, when need arises.

Indeed sound proofing has to be given maximum importance, just imagine if we are not able to enjoy the entertainment room, if neighbours are going to complain, so please continue to be very tough on this, otherwise later there will be a lot of pain for you in form of joy reduction. I know of people who did not work extensively on this, and now they are having problems with neighbours.

One of the Bangalore member has used some light which distracts, but i think more idle will be the bell, moreover the light may look bad, which will be somewhere near the screen.

I have always believed knowledge is for sharing, with my writing if it benefits you and members, i am very happy about it.


You should still consider steps, because that will take only around 10 inches area, by giving 10 inches the joy will be of 100 inches.

It is very nice that you have planned so much about the conduits, etc, you are going great.

Vinay.

 

[santhosh]

I think a decent (read as one of the high pitched electronic ones) door bell unit installed in the HT room will definitely catch your attention. This should be wired in parallel to the bell unit in your hall/living room.

I will check these out. Wiring it in parallel to the bell unit is going to be an uphill task considering that the HT Room is quite far away from where the bell or the switch is. But it is a "must do"... I'll leave the routing to the electrician.

Santhol
How much do these boards cost per square feet? Can you post some information on what products/options you saw? Thanks.

Raj, call Praveen based on your requirement in square feet and he'll be able to workout something. I have been quoted around Rs.70 per sq/ft for the 20mm 'natural' wood-wool board. This is a 'ball-park' figure and I have been promised a discount when I place my order.

 

[santhosh]

santhol2,

It gives me joy that you appreciate my efforts.

Please guide me why you can not remove the windows completely, i repeat think of the benefits without a window which i have told you, please read the earlier post my carefully.

I would like to try out "acoustic treatment for these windows" first and if I am not happy, I shall remove them. This is because, one of the consideration that I am having in this build, is that the room should be easy to convert back to a normal room with almost nil civil work (for any reason not known at this point in time).

It is good that you have 3 set of lights, but please do put 2 more sets of lights, the cost is not much, but the benefit is very large. The remote set up will not cost much. Please drop the fan, Treat A/C is a fan, keep the speed to lower on basis of fan, when need arises.

Sure Vinay, I agree about a spoling the aesthetics of the room. Will avoid it.
But IMO, a fan if chosen well can add to the aesthetics. Check this out:

Pic Courtesy: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047573

Indeed sound proofing has to be given maximum importance, just imagine if we are not able to enjoy the entertainment room, if neighbours are going to complain, so please continue to be very tough on this, otherwise later there will be a lot of pain for you in form of joy reduction. I know of people who did not work extensively on this, and now they are having problems with neighbours.

I dread this very thought Vinay and am trying to sound proof to the best possible. Have spent so much of effort planning, the last thing I want is being a nuisance to my neighbours:sad:. In my case, I also need sound isolation from my family (especially outside to inside noise..lol). My family and neighbours have put up with me for all these years, they definitely deserve better

One of the Bangalore member has used some light which distracts, but i think more idle will be the bell, moreover the light may look bad, which will be somewhere near the screen.

Even I was thinking of something near the screen and aesthetically nice, otherwise we might miss the 'useful' distraction.

I have always believed knowledge is for sharing, with my writing if it benefits you and members, i am very happy about it.

Appreciate your carmaderie Vinay. Please continue to do so. Thanks to the internet and forums like "HifiVision", I feel I am discussing with my friends and learning from them.

You should still consider steps, because that will take only around 10 inches area, by giving 10 inches the joy will be of 100 inches.

It is very nice that you have planned so much about the conduits, etc, you are going great.

Vinay.

Today, I will try moving a Sofa into the room to get a feel and then decide. Regarding conduits and provisions, I am sure I have overlooked something....thanks to Murphy

 

[cmsajith]

If you require fans, why dont you try silent wall mounted fans fitted at the back side wall of the room and this will not be in the viewing path of the screen.

 

[santhosh]

Pictorial Update of work completed during the week:

The wooden framing has been completed and installed. Wooden frames with partitions of size 2ft by 2ft were made.

Such frames were made and mounted on each wall. I have added a strip of thermofoam(black thingy in the picture) at the point where the wood to avoid any structural noise transmission. International Online forums recommended Neoprene but this was too expensive and also I had to place order and get it made in the size and softness that I wanted. I decided to give this a miss and used thermofoam instead (had it lying at home from another automobile DIY project). I even thought of rubber bedding\mountings but thought that would over-engineering it.

After mounting the frame (with spirit level), I caulked the air-gap in the perimeters of the frame with Silicon. This is to prevent any sound leaks and also to prevent any loose fibre glass wool from falling on the ground

This is how it looks after it has been caulked

I learnt a lesson very early into this operation. Better to first seal the gap with waste pieces of wood thus reducing the gap that required filling. Otherwise we would need ton loads of Silicon.

This is the Silicon that I used. Each Tube cost Rs:100 and I needed atleast 12 of these. The Caulking gun is also around Rs.150 and already existed in my collection of tools.

Next comes the Sound Proofing.... to be continued

 

[santhosh]

I am using Twiga 25mm fibreglass boards for the insulation. I am using two layers of it so this makes it 50mm. The density is 32kg per meter cube. I chose 25mm over 50mm because it is easier to work with.

It came in a roll and packed in a cement bag like packing. Here it is waiting to be installed.

We (carpenters and I) unwrapped it and started cutting it to the size required and double folded it to achieve the 50mm thickness

I started applying the glasswool on the front wall (screen side) while the carpenters were cutting it to size

Soon, the front wall frame was packed with glasswool

Yesterday, the wall frame was covered with plywood to achieve a flat surface to mount ~50 inch Plasma\LCD screen. The glass wool is still being seen in a vertical strip is because that is a protruding pillar(existing) and will be hidden by building a cabinet on both sides. This cabinet will have acoustice panels integrated into them and will also hold the center channel speaker. The window on the right has windows already but will also get a flush mounted door and will have rubber gaskets from the inside to prevent sound leakage.

Next comes some details about the treatment of remaining walls.... to be continued

 

[santhosh]

Please guide me why you can not remove the windows completely, i repeat think of the benefits without a window which i have told you, please read the earlier post my carefully.

Vinay, in order to see why I am not able to remove the windows, we will need to come out of the Home Theatre Room. Please have a look at these two windows below before we leave the room:
Window A: Right side rear end portion of HT Room

Window B: Left side rear end portion of HT Room

On the other side of the Window A is a stairway which leads into the drawing room downstairs. This window is in the center of the house and used to be a source of natural light to the entire house and added a lot of character to the entire house until the HT Project started. We could immediately see the difference when this window was removed and we did not want to lose that. So, the idea is to keep Windows A & B open while the HT Room is not in use. The light from Window B enters the rest of the house through Window A. Window A as see in the picture is nothing but butchered glass - layers of broken glass stuck one on top of the other to the required measurement. Costs around Rs.600 per square feet for two inch thickness but the look from the otherside is worth a million bucks:licklips:. Here is a pic (yet to be painted). Checkout the light that enters:

One thing though, I need to protect the interiors from fading and ofcourse my A/V components from the heat. A/V Components get a A/V rack with tinted glasses so not much to worry. I am not doing anything to protect the interiors from fading at this point. Will address this if and only if there is too much heat entering the room through Window B.

 

[vinay]

santhol2,

With so much you are doing with your entertainment room, there will be no question to get it back into a normal room, please consider not to have any values for those windows, this is the best time to remove the windows later you will not be able to remove, in my earlier writing see the benefits of without the windows, you have a lot to loose with having the windows.

That is a good one, if the fan is chosen of a attractive type, it will help, but still keep away from the fan, i think you will not require a fan because in my case what i do is i used to use my entertainment room only when i wanted to listen music or watch movies so that means i will never be there for more then 3 hours or so, in such a situation the light bill also will be less if i am using a a/c. In other words entertainment room should be used only for movies and music and not for general chat.

Indeed sound proofing has to be the best otherwise we will not be able to make full use of our entertainment room, i have given a few tips in my earlier posts, if you need some more information let me know.

I think bell will be a better choice.

For a professional it is very difficult to compete with we forum members, there will be so many opinions from members how to go about the planning.

It is a good idea to move a sofa to the entertainment room to get a feel. I had done a lot of dry runs like i painted the wall white and then tried the screen sizes differently, i used carpet large samples in 4 different shades, i raised my sitting area with bare bricks and related, many more such things i did, by doing all this we can arrive at a much clearer picture.

Vinay.

I would like to try out "acoustic treatment for these windows" first and if I am not happy, I shall remove them. This is because, one of the consideration that I am having in this build, is that the room should be easy to convert back to a normal room with almost nil civil work (for any reason not known at this point in time).


Sure Vinay, I agree about a spoling the aesthetics of the room. Will avoid it.
But IMO, a fan if chosen well can add to the aesthetics. Check this out:

Pic Courtesy: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1047573


I dread this very thought Vinay and am trying to sound proof to the best possible. Have spent so much of effort planning, the last thing I want is being a nuisance to my neighbours:sad:. In my case, I also need sound isolation from my family (especially outside to inside noise..lol). My family and neighbours have put up with me for all these years, they definitely deserve better


Even I was thinking of something near the screen and aesthetically nice, otherwise we might miss the 'useful' distraction.


Appreciate your carmaderie Vinay. Please continue to do so. Thanks to the internet and forums like "HifiVision", I feel I am discussing with my friends and learning from them.



Today, I will try moving a Sofa into the room to get a feel and then decide. Regarding conduits and provisions, I am sure I have overlooked something....thanks to Murphy

 

[vinay]

Santho12, I have also done the wooden framing with glass wool the way you are doing it. However please be guided that till 3 feet i have used 4 inches glass wool, thereafter till the ceiling i have used 2 inches glass wool. The 4 inches glass wool is used for lower frequencies (sub woofer). I have made holes on the plywood in line to cones of the 5.1 speakers.

In other words after the framing work i have put the plywood, thereafter i pasted spunch on the entire plywood, and then covered all the walls with a special fabric.

Vinay.

I am using Twiga 25mm fibreglass boards for the insulation. I am using two layers of it so this makes it 50mm. The density is 32kg per meter cube. I chose 25mm over 50mm because it is easier to work with.

It came in a roll and packed in a cement bag like packing. Here it is waiting to be installed.

We (carpenters and I) unwrapped it and started cutting it to the size required and double folded it to achieve the 50mm thickness

I started applying the glasswool on the front wall (screen side) while the carpenters were cutting it to size

Soon, the front wall frame was packed with glasswool

Yesterday, the wall frame was covered with plywood to achieve a flat surface to mount ~50 inch Plasma\LCD screen. The glass wool is still being seen in a vertical strip is because that is a protruding pillar(existing) and will be hidden by building a cabinet on both sides. This cabinet will have acoustice panels integrated into them and will also hold the center channel speaker. The window on the right has windows already but will also get a flush mounted door and will have rubber gaskets from the inside to prevent sound leakage.

Next comes some details about the treatment of remaining walls.... to be continued

 

[vinay]

I understand your point of view for not removing the window. I would go to any length to remove the window, for example i had a lovely view from my window but i gave it up, and sealed it with cement, and guess what, i sacrificed the bathroom also in order to increase the room length. With no windows i have no issue of dust, rain, or any foreign things coming in, i keep the theatre room open daily for around 2 hours, and once a week i keep it open for several hours. The magic of without windows in a entertainment room is very high for me.

Vinay.

Vinay, in order to see why I am not able to remove the windows, we will need to come out of the Home Theatre Room. Please have a look at these two windows below before we leave the room:
Window A: Right side rear end portion of HT Room

Window B: Left side rear end portion of HT Room

On the other side of the Window A is a stairway which leads into the drawing room downstairs. This window is in the center of the house and used to be a source of natural light to the entire house and added a lot of character to the entire house until the HT Project started. We could immediately see the difference when this window was removed and we did not want to lose that. So, the idea is to keep Windows A & B open while the HT Room is not in use. The light from Window B enters the rest of the house through Window A. Window A as see in the picture is nothing but butchered glass - layers of broken glass stuck one on top of the other to the required measurement. Costs around Rs.600 per square feet for two inch thickness but the look from the otherside is worth a million bucks:licklips:. Here is a pic (yet to be painted). Checkout the light that enters:

One thing though, I need to protect the interiors from fading and ofcourse my A/V components from the heat. A/V Components get a A/V rack with tinted glasses so not much to worry. I am not doing anything to protect the interiors from fading at this point. Will address this if and only if there is too much heat entering the room through Window B.

 

[manu4panjab]

hey bro

how much does the total project cost

by the way good going man

its turn out to be superb

 

[santhosh]

hey bro

how much does the total project cost

by the way good going man

its turn out to be superb

Thanks Manu. Here is some info that I would like to share with you and other forum members. I wanted to do this after I have completed the build. But, I find that many are curious and also making a decision at this point and this reach a decision. Since the HT Room is not complete yet, I'll give you a breakup for you to get an idea. I like to DIY and have done everything on my own so far (ofcourse with the guidance of experienced forum members and my carpenter). So, please add around 10 to 20% as there may be lessons learnt, rework, wastage etc.

Costing and Sourcing:

a) Wooden Framing : Make sure you buy wood that is not prone to bending or termites. I used Silver wood mostly but fell short of wood by around 60 feet. I could not get the same again for such a small quanity. Had to manage with some other Jungle wood. Rs.12k for the wood (cut to size, planed and transported). One could also use GI/aluminium framing to cut costs

b) Fibre Glass Wool: I have spent around 5k so far, need some more of higher density. Expected total cost is Rs.10k . More info on costs here

c) Anutone Boards: Rs.5k as I am covering only the bottom half (upto ear level). Have place ordered for 20mm boards and have been quoted around Rs.62 per square feet for the natural finish boards

d) Plywood Boards: I am using a good brand 12mm Marine Grade Plywood for the wall panels and costs around Rs.50 per sq ft for a 12mm board. Some parts like doors, cabinets, bass trap frames will be made using 19mm boards which cost around Rs.65 per sq ft

e) Fabric to cover boards: I am planning to use Raw Silk and I was quoted Rs.250 per meter from my enquiry yesterday at a retail shop. Will visit some wholesale shops during the week

f) Seating: I am considering something like Berkline Home Theater Seating Power Buy:: Ultimate Home Entertainment and have spoken to one chap yesterday who makes commerical Theatre seats. I will be meeting him next Saturday. Starting price range is Rs.3500, rest depends on my customisation - fabric, leather, softer, etc

g) Flooring: Wooden flooring costs around Rs.140 per square feet. I have found a manufacturer. Will visit him when the time comes. In my case, this will have to wait as I will use the HT with normal floor and an existing carpet for some time as I am about to overshoot my budget

h) Ceiling: Depends on your what you have in mind. I am getting a cove done in Gypsum\POP. This should cost me around 5k, not received an estimate yet. For the center portion, I am planning this. This should cost me another 7 to 10k.

i) Switches, Wiring and Conduits: I have so far spend around 5k on conduits, switch box & labour. I am expecting to spend another 15k. Not sure though.

j) Lighting: I have a budget for around 20 k. I am in touch with eVillage and am impressed with their demo. They make LED rope lights, Indoor and Outdoor LED spotlights (dimmable as well at an extra cost). I am yet to finalise what I want to order from them. Cost and quality wise, I am happy.

k) Carpenter Labour Cost: 40% of materials used (materials used in his work only)

l) Construction Civil Cost: Room had to be built from the scratch and cost me a little over 2.5 lakhs. Painting etc extra

m) Satisfaction on seeing things taking shape: Priceless

PS: Cost depends on your negotiation skills also to a great extent. My wife tells me that I am very poor at neogitation because I let my excitement show as soon as I see a product that I like and the seller knows I will buy anyways.

 

[santhosh]

I understand your point of view for not removing the window. I would go to any length to remove the window, for example i had a lovely view from my window but i gave it up, and sealed it with cement, and guess what, i sacrificed the bathroom also in order to increase the room length. With no windows i have no issue of dust, rain, or any foreign things coming in, i keep the theatre room open daily for around 2 hours, and once a week i keep it open for several hours. The magic of without windows in a entertainment room is very high for me.

Vinay.

Very True Vinay. I agree with what you say about natural elements and foreign objects, but I am not in a position to remove the windows at this point. Let us see, sometime in the future maybe on a need basis.

 

[raj]

c) Anutone Boards: Rs.5k as I am covering only the bottom half (upto ear level). Have place ordered for 20mm boards and have been quoted around Rs.62 per square feet for the natural finish boards

e) Fabric to cover boards: I am planning to use Raw Silk and I was quoted Rs.250 per meter from my enquiry yesterday at a retail shop. Will visit some wholesale shops during the week

Santhol2: Thanks for sharing this information.
What are you using the Anutone boards for? as sound absorption boards? But then you have the fibre wool too. Could you please clarify what role does the Anutone board play vs the fiber wool?
I read somewhere that the fabric you cover the sound panels should be acoustically transparent. Is the silk fabric going to let the sound panel below that to do its job? What about the fabrics from Anutone (that I see in their website)? Did you consider them and chose to go with Silk instead?
Once again, thanks for sharing your experience. And good luck with your project. BTW, which area of BLR is your house in?

 

[GeorgeO]

Santosh

Im finding this very interesting, since I have to get my basement ready for HT. I don't have too much time to get it done, but will plan thing out carefully, and would very definitely like to come and see your room once it is in a condition to visit. I plan to travel to the US around the middle of next month.

George

 

[santhosh]

Experts, please correct me when I say something wrong. My knowledge is purely based on my understanding of several online articles and posts on AV forums.

Santhol2: Thanks for sharing this information.
What are you using the Anutone boards for? as sound absorption boards? But then you have the fibre wool too. Could you please clarify what role does the Anutone board play vs the fiber wool?

You are right, I am using the Anutone boards for sound absorption. I am using Anutone boards on the lower half of the walls (upto 4 feet only as the ear level is around 3 feet). The Fibrewool inside is for soundproofing (noise isolation) and is used throughout. I will need to treat bass differently either through diffusion or using bass traps(absorption) or a mix of both. All my panels are removable, so I can experiment, learn and fine-tune.

Ok, let me try and clear the confusion about fibreglass being used for absorption as well as sound-proofing. The loose or semi-rigid fibreglass is used for sound absorption(high to mid frequencies) as well as sound proofing. The fibreglass that I have used inside the panels does not do much for bass related issues. For low frequencies, one would need a higher density-higher thickness fibreglass. If I were to use the correct density fibreglass and cover cover it with an acoustically transparent cloth, I would not need the Boards, but this would be difficult to maintain and to make it 'look good' . Reason being that, it is not rigid enough to handle mishaps like someone leaning on the wall, kicking etc. Also I am trying to get a mix of live and dead sound because this room will also be used for listening.

In order to choose the treatment, it is important to understand Sound Aborption Coefficients. Venkat Sir's post here has some useful info:
http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhancers-room-acoustics/3473-how-sound-proof-hts-room-2.html#post61628

Also useful is to understand what different materials of varying densities do across the frequency band. Have a look at the site below:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

I read somewhere that the fabric you cover the sound panels should be acoustically transparent. Is the silk fabric going to let the sound panel below that to do its job? What about the fabrics from Anutone (that I see in their website)? Did you consider them and chose to go with Silk instead?
Once again, thanks for sharing your experience. And good luck with your project. BTW, which area of BLR is your house in?

You are right. So far, I have not had any success finding an acoustically transparent yet aesthetically appealing fabric:sad:. A simple test according to online forums is to blow air and check if it comes through the other side. It is an acoustically transparent cloth if it does.

Going by the above, the silk fabric is not exactly acoustically transparent. Nor is the fabric covered boards from manufacturer mentioned above. I have seen their material and it feels like a thin carpet. It is definitely absorptive materials but important thing is it is not reflective.

I do not want to use Speaker Cloth and could not find anything else that is aesthetically pleasant so far. The only ones that I found so far were also visually transparent thus exposing the board/plywood behind. So that was ruled out. Even now, I am not fixed on the Silk fabric, but it has to look good aesthetically. Please suggest soem fabric options. Raw Silk is the last resort as it is porous, relatively loosely woven and I love the way they look.

 

[santhosh]

Santosh

Im finding this very interesting, since I have to get my basement ready for HT. I don't have too much time to get it done, but will plan thing out carefully, and would very definitely like to come and see your room once it is in a condition to visit. I plan to travel to the US around the middle of next month.

George

Thanks for the kind words George. I am sure the HT will be ready by the time you return from your US visit. You are welcome anytime to check it out.