Candid interview with Amir from Audiosciencereview

Rega Turntables
Indranil Sen said:
I would be really curious to find out how many of us, the audiophiles, buy high-end electronics just by looking at the spec or at the test data w/o doing any audition. People could argue about it for the rest of their life but the reality is that most of us who don't have unlimited resources use a balanced approach when buying any item let alone an audio gear. But when it comes to this discussion unfortunately the passion quickly goes out of control. Same story all over the world.
However I haven't found a single response or an initiative or any discussion that focuses on building a credible Hifi market in India where the buying process is made relatively easier or at-least bring it to the same level as it is in other countries. As I see it, unless this Hifi market supports a home trial where buys are able to touch, feel and experience the performance of audio gears such products will not get liquidity in the market regardless of how much we talk about objective measurements.
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I don’t think any one here is arguing that specs and measurements are absolute in finalising a gear. Just pointing out the hypocrisy and foolish behaviour of a biased FM who is trying to enforce his opinions on others. Refuses to share what tv or speakers he uses in a forum like Hifivision but makes silly comments in every thread.There is no point in being a member if one has no interest in sharing what gears one owns.Beats the purpose of this forum.Many factors are involved on why the buying process is not like how it is in US. In India it’s a dry market and the import duties, tax makes it worse with the pricing. Many hobbyists don’t have dealers or showroom in their locality who purely depend on owners feed back, reviews and objective data.
 
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firearm12 said:
People trying to interpret music through graphs, what a time we live in.
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Music is in a recording (for our ilk at least). A recording is not what Amir analyses or interprets or measures; it's the medium that reproduces it. The music does not change via a medium, the way it is reproduced changes. So, in this context, no one is interpreting music - least of all via graphs.
firearm12 said:
Science provides tools for creation, let it do its job and finish there, rest should be left on senses. People these days seem to forget that we are smaller than a spec of dust in this universe and that we know less than 1% of of how all this works. So just enjoy what you like without thinking why you should like it.
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People should be left to choose based on criteria that THEY like. Why should anyone say what is right or wrong and impose their opinion on them. Don't we already have enough of that going on in all other walks of life? You like subjectivity? Good for you! Objectivity? Fine! A mixture of both? Excellent! There's no right and wrong in something that involves sensory perception.

What is absolutely wrong in my opinion is to belittle or name call people who do not adhere or subscribe to one's line of thought. It reflects very very poorly on the individual doing the calling out. Yes, I'm being judgemental here and I may be incorrect in thinking this - but that's a function of the way I've been brought up to believe.
 
firearm12 said:
People trying to interpret music through graphs, what a time we live in. Science provides tools for creation, let it do its job and finish there, rest should be left on senses. People these days seem to forget that we are smaller than a spec of dust in this universe and that we know less than 1% of of how all this works. So just enjoy what you like without thinking why you should like it.
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This is what I feel is the most misunderstood part of the debate.


The measurements are for the audio part of the music.

no one is denying music is subjective.

its just that the audio SHOULD be objective. Otherwise how can you say it is subjectively performing as it should.

Audio or music reproduction has solely been objective based. It's been made murkier by the vested interested in the industry for commercial dividends.
 
Enkay78 said:
This is what I feel is the most misunderstood part of the debate.


The measurements are for the audio part of the music.

no one is denying music is subjective.

its just that the audio SHOULD be objective. Otherwise how can you say it is subjectively performing as it should.

Audio or music reproduction has solely been objective based. It's been made murkier by the vested interested in the industry for commercial dividends.
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This is self contradictory. Its ok to consider audio to be separate from music. But objectivity should never be considered as means to measure subjectivity. My point is objectivity should be involved only up to a certain point. No one buys an amplifier to measure it daily, people buy it to listen to music. If objectivity was the only truth then we would only be having one universal circuit in all devices that is graphically and mathematically perfect. On the other hand then it would also means that if two devices generate similar graphs then they sound same also, but does that happen practically ? So its a flawed debate imo. Just let people decide for themselves.
 
firearm12 said:
If objectivity was the only truth then we would only be having one universal circuit in all devices that is graphically and mathematically perfect.
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This understanding is not correct. For eg say if 115 is a good SINAD value for DACs, you can design the circuits differently and still achieve the same SINAD value I.e. differently designed DACs can achieve the same value. This doesn't mean that they all sound the same.
 
See, now the topic is being tangentially diverted to a moot point: viz. Some believe that objectivity is the only truth.

There is space for both, subjectivity and objectivity. We choose our own poison. And that is the way it IS! Why mention something that is almost never followed and then drag this on? And even if it is followed, that approach is one's choice - right or flawed.

Amir does what he does - right or wrong in our eyes, it is what it is. We choose to ignore him or follow him - nothing wrong or right in either. Now, let's go away! :rolleyes:
 
Amir and ASR reminds me a lot of the "Blind Men and the Elephant"

Blind_men_and_elephant2.jpg





.
 
keith_correa said:
Think about it; actually, it is the other way around. In the example cited, the blind men relied on their sensory perception to judge. I wonder which of the "blind" among us do that!!!! ;)
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… and as the elephant is the object. But if the elephant was in a room….:rolleyes: for long enough, the room would be full of…
 
firearm12 said:
This is self contradictory. Its ok to consider audio to be separate from music. But objectivity should never be considered as means to measure subjectivity. My point is objectivity should be involved only up to a certain point. No one buys an amplifier to measure it daily, people buy it to listen to music. If objectivity was the only truth then we would only be having one universal circuit in all devices that is graphically and mathematically perfect. On the other hand then it would also means that if two devices generate similar graphs then they sound same also, but does that happen practically ? So its a flawed debate imo. Just let people decide for themselves.
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An excellent recording will sound good in a spectrum of audio devices (measuring good or bad).

But this same excellent recording to sound excellent will require good performance of the audio device .....which depends on how well the electronics performs per the principles of physics...which requires maths...which are objective parameters.

The 'music' of this excellent recording may sound good to one or not depending on the subjective taste of the listener.

Measurements for me is not about the music....but about the performance of the audio chain system.

But to expect that excellent recording to sound excellent from under par audio device which can color the 'music' with distortions ........well, what can one say here?
 
ssf said:
Sir,

My apologies if my post hurt your sensibilities. It was in humor to elicit a few laughs in a thread that had all the markings of going to the um, do I dare use the word 'Dogs' here ?

'Seriously backlash' ? You now have me worried.
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I didn't take it seriously.. but sometimes people take it the other way and the situation escalates.
 
Enkay78 said:
But to expect that excellent recording to sound excellent from under par audio device which can color the 'music' with distortions ........well, what can one say here?
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Some people do like sound of vinyls, tapes, tubes more than a transparent sound, especially as they spend more time with hifi. My experience as a consumer is that listening matters more than measurements. I feel an objectivist can convert into subjectivist as time passes but to convert a subjectivist into objectivist would be a difficult task because he is more comfortable with pleasing sounds rather than correct sound. Not that i am trying to convert any objectivists to subjectivists here. The post was about amir, i personally dont agree with his philosophies but then who cares i dont agree with him and who cares about that 'care'. But when i see posts where people dont consider certain product just because asr forum said it was terrible, its not a good feeling.
 
I have not gone through the video, but the amp I use and find to be very good is almost at the bottom of his rankings based on his measurements.
I have heard quite a few of his non recommended amps, DACs and speakers which in real world perform with aplomb and are also highly successful. Examples include The Horn Shoppe Truth preamplifier, Audio GD DAC, Soekris DAC and ATC speakers.

I also find some of his highly recommended devices, for example the Khadas tone board, some Topping and SMSL DACs not to my liking.

That said some of his recommended devices do sound good as well.

I have also seen him become a turncoat where he has taken a U-turn, especially with Hegel devices and Hegels are well-known for buying reviews.

I take ASR reviews with a big pinch of salt as I am circumspect about their listening virtues, though I have no qualms in agreeing that he is bold with a very large following, especially while taking on behemoth companies.
 
prateekatasniya said:
Ohh.. that's sad..
I guess the meaning of polite is wrong in your dictionary.
Or maybe wrong in my dictionary? :D
"having or showing behaviour that is respectful and considerate of other people."
This is the meaning of polite in my dictionary.


If our posts don't help us or others on the forum then what's the point of posting?
Click to expand...

No, it isn't wrong.

There are many reasons to post. I'm not here to "win friends and influence" people.
 
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