keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Links to these please? I'm very interested in this!
Candid interview with Amir from Audiosciencereview
- Thread starter matazooma
- Start date
prateekatasniya
Well-Known Member
Btw.. that book teaches manners and etiquette.
I will search and link, but that thread has been substantially edited overtime.
Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
Btw.. that book teaches manners and etiquette.
Good to know.
Here is an article on the objective vs subjective debate.
It’s from 10 years ago. The author seems to lean a bit towards the “O” camp. Warning: it’s brutal.
nwavguy.blogspot.com
How little has changed in this debate over time!!!
It’s from 10 years ago. The author seems to lean a bit towards the “O” camp. Warning: it’s brutal.
Subjective vs Objective Debate
INTRO : Given the strong reaction to some of my articles here are some thought’s on what’s likely behind the more emotional responses. The w...
nwavguy.blogspot.com
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Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
Human nature does not change so quickly. It can be race or gender or political affiliations or many others. These things often invoke strong opinions. Humans are individualistic life forms hence heir opinions are varied. In this regards ants are superior creatures where it is all done for the good of the colony rather than individual agendas and greed. Their functioning as a species is beautiful IMO.
I doubt you'd see much change in this debate in another 10 years.
Thats why the site exists. Its amazing the site is just 5 yrs old, negativity spreads like fire really. Pity for those who thought they were owning good equipment until asr showed they were listening to crap. Quoted from asr below after bashing a costly equipment.
"but it sounds great to my ears." I am sure it does because a) audiophiles are terrible when it comes to critical listening abilities and hearing non-linearities and b) you don't know how to do proper listening tests.
Very challenging stuff it is. But hey i am not an audiophile so i dont need asr.
Exactly. I do check up on his results only to check whether a particular component is well designed/engineered or not.
MaSh
How come nobody has come up with a Blind Test reference until now!
p.s. Guys please keep the banter friendly on here. It is fair game for someone to disagree on a point - in this case the OP's video content. However, some of you are taking things personally which is not good form. Please separate the individual and the point of discussion. I hope that makes sense to some of you.
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That’s how we all win friends (or not) and influence people (or not)
@Nikhil : in the video Amir claims to be one of the few people who passed blind testing (lossless vs lossy) conducted by a couple of independent testers. Difficult to verify; also no reason to disbelieve as he makes the claim on a public forum.
But the point is that very few people are able to do this.
I am however sceptical of another statistic he mentions: “ASR now has the largest numbers of followers in the world among audio forums. That leads to the most perplexing question today: “Is the majority almost always wrong?”
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keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Why do you equate "followers" with "believers"? There are many I know who follow ASR just to keep themselves informed, educated and to read others perceptions just as I follow 6Moons for their flowery prose, photographs, to drool at the equipment there and to look at the other side. It keeps me from getting radical, gives me a sense of balance and many times makes me laugh at the things they say. Then there are many who follow ASR because he makes a lot of sense to them but in the rarified circle these guys move in, admitting to be objective is a cardinal sin so they project a different face to their world.
I take your point @keith_correa; people become followers, cultists, believers, bhakts, members etc for a variety of reasons. I too occasionally visit the ASR site to search for test results on a particular product is available. I don’t know if that makes me a follower or a believer or whatever.Why do you equate "followers" with "believers"? There are many I know who follow ASR just to keep themselves informed, educated and to read others perceptions just as I follow 6Moons for their flowery prose, photographs, to drool at the equipment there and to look at the other side. It keeps me from getting radical, gives me a sense of balance and many times makes me laugh at the things they say. Then there are many who follow ASR because he makes a lot of sense to them but in the rarified circle these guys move in, admitting to be objective is a cardinal sin so they project a different face to their world.
I can’t understand why it is necessary to take polarised positions at all? (Either Objectivist or Subjectivist; with us or against us) Specially when there is space to accept both approaches as valuable but imperfect?
Most of Amir and ASR’s measurements are usually interspersed with comments on subjective listening experience, if one cares to read with some attention.
Which means even hardcore objectivists like ASR’s most well known reviewer tries to correlate data with his subjective feelings in his reviews.
Which makes one wonder why some of these ‘ charts are worthless’ FMs take such hardliner approach and spew forums with their arrogant ‘opinions’.
Which means even hardcore objectivists like ASR’s most well known reviewer tries to correlate data with his subjective feelings in his reviews.
Which makes one wonder why some of these ‘ charts are worthless’ FMs take such hardliner approach and spew forums with their arrogant ‘opinions’.
So, the audio utopia we are all chasing can be described as:
“It measures well, is praised in reviews, and sounds terrific to me”
This very rarely happens. And if it does there will always be those that disagree (it’s their right)
“It measures well, is praised in reviews, and sounds terrific to me”
This very rarely happens. And if it does there will always be those that disagree (it’s their right)
Probably Johnny Walker is one such rare combination...
It measures well, is praised in reviews, and tastes terrific to me.
Very true Analogous. A certain degree depends on us how much our brain can adapt & be happy with our budget. Nothing will be perfect. The interview seemed quite interesting apart from the interviewer abruptly interrupting him often & sounding unsure with his questions.
Neither does Amir promote objectivity in totality where he mentions that subjectivity can also chime in. One good thing for the consumer is that the manufacturers would be wary in the future what specs they publish as people can double check on it. Sometimes a product may not have the specs that ticks all the boxes but they do sound great as I myself have experienced it & in the end it is all that matters. His reviews may be a good starting point to check on your choices & then hear it for yourself to see the end result.
His main purpose is to see the capability/efficiency as per the specs the gear can reproduce the sound/music rather than analyzing the music from the emotional side.
Both the objectivists & the subjectivists have the right to have their own views. As long as you are happy with your own gear nothing else matters, no matter what anyone says as they cannot interpret the sound that you hear as you do.
Old Monk sir.....evergreenProbably Johnny Walker is one such rare combination...
It measures well, is praised in reviews, and tastes terrific to me.
From reading Amir's reviews my take away was that his goal was to separate the well 'engineered' products from not-so-well-engineered ones. And to me that is a worthy goal to pursue and IMO ASR achieves that. Well engineered and good sounding are two different things anyway (even though they are closely related).
Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
I'd agree. However worldwide there are many people who are unable to digest other viewpoints, they do not even understand that opinion exists. This is the driving force behind human division and why such hostility exists in any given subject among proponents from both sides. Audio division is relatively mild compared to things like politics. Closed minds are the the root cause of such hostility where they are unable to accept opinions and live in peace. Such mindsets may speak of limited intellect, worldwide. May humanity one day unite under a common banner.
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