Catridge upgrade suggestion for Technics SL1700 MK II

[subinoy]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ZkfUzt4kAAOEZGUlBkMEs2emM/view?usp=sharing

I made this SP vinyl rip through Shure M 44-7. The song is from Do Chor- Kishore Kumar and Lata Mangeshkar duet Kali Palak Teri Gori. This is mono sound and has pure 70s feel. Listen to this and do let me know if you like the signature.

Regards,
Sourav

Sourav Quality is too good . Thanks . Did you used any external Phono ?

Thanks
Subinoy

 

[greenhorn]

the M44-7's 7K price tag in india is a not worth it, especially when the AT CN5625 is available for <2K. I've got both, the sound signature is pretty close, with the AT having a less boomy (but still in your face) sound that everybody likes in the M44-7, the Shure is worth maybe 50% more, not 400%.
Get one from grabmore (they have generic technics headshells also for decent prices)

 

[sunder]

reubensm, what version of 44-7 which will yield the effect you mentioned? It has been told that: nowadays, there is no more original version. How to identify a genuine or original version of 44-7? Is Mexico the origin place of the cart? Thank you.
Regrds.

 

[greenhorn]

the production of the M44-7 was moved from US to mexico, and the mexican ones sold currently are still very much genuine shure. It's just that they're made elsewhere, and the QC has been alleged to be worse.

I have a vintage M44-7 (Brown body) and tried out a NOS N44-7 made in USA stylus, and I could not make out any difference with the newer ones :/

 

[souravin]

Sourav Quality is too good . Thanks . Did you used any external Phono ?

Thanks
Subinoy

Thanks Subinoy. I use CNC phonostage made by Sachin, Om and Raghu. This is extremely good for listening. Also have NAD PP2 phono.

Regards,
Sourav

PS: Join our Kolkata HFV whatsapp group +91 98307 38030.

 

[jls001]

Denon DL 103 low output MC. Invest in a good MC phono preamp. As reignofchoas said, they're going cheap nowadays. Or even better the DL 103 R.

Second (and distant) choice Denon DL 110. It can be plugged into MM phono preamp. Experiment with different impedance loading for optimal sound.

 

[Hassan Khani]

The Shure M44 7 is an extremely high output cartridge. It's close to 9 mv. More the output, thicker the sound, lesser the details. Increased output is normally got by increased windings. Bollywood songs tend to sound nicer a bit thick. If you plan to use DL 103, you will need a step up transformer for it to sound best. DL 103 has a 0.3 mv output. You could look at DL 110 which has a 1.6 mv output. It will probably work very well for Bollywood music. Will definitely be more detailed than the Shure 44

Hi What is the role of step up transformer in the chain? Did you meant MC Phone Preamp?

 

[reignofchaos]

Hi What is the role of step up transformer in the chain? Did you meant MC Phone Preamp?

The ideal way to use DL103 is a high quality Step up transformer followed by a MM phono stage not an MC phono. I didn't mention this earlier as good SUTs cost a bomb.

Please stay away from shure m44 - it is a horrible horrible cartridge meant only if you do not care about fidelity and want to scratch. It has a lot of bloated overblown bass which some folks seem to love. Also it is screechy and not very refined at the top.

 

[sunder]

the production of the M44-7 was moved from US to mexico, and the mexican ones sold currently are still very much genuine shure. It's just that they're made elsewhere, and the QC has been alleged to be worse.

I have a vintage M44-7 (Brown body) and tried out a NOS N44-7 made in USA stylus, and I could not make out any difference with the newer ones :/

For the better results: Can we fit M55 stylus in the N44-7 body without any alterations? Thank you.

 

[reubensm]

That is the best price I had come across so far. Will send you a PM.

Best place to look for Shure Carts is ebay.de (ensure that you check carefully as as some sellers actually sell Shure carts which are custom-made for Dual headshells and are not compatible with 1/2 inch mounts). If you are lucky, you can get a good Shure cart for less than Rs.2000 including shipping.

 

[reubensm]

Agree. Good discussion. I have only recently experienced the M44-7.

I have a Shure V15 III cartridge, and a Jico VN35HE SAS stylus. I used it on my Thorens TD 160. Excellent stylus, no doubt. But you need pristine quality vinyl to get the best out of this combo. For my old Indian film music, I sometimes felt that the Jico was extracting too much of the noise too. And then I tried the M44-7. Bassy, yes, loud, yes. But I am beginning to like it - my old Hindi film songs sound much better with this cartridge. And this cart somehow also reduces the clicks and pops, I feel.

Therefore, we really cannot pinpoint a cart-stylus combo that is suitable for all genres of music.

That is true, the M44-7 does not bring out all the ticks/pops and surface noise, as much as other Shure models, especially the Vs. I too use the V15-III but with its original stylus VN35E. I have noticed that Shure carts with Jico styli become quite sensitive to picking up noise.

 

[reubensm]

reubensm, what version of 44-7 which will yield the effect you mentioned? It has been told that: nowadays, there is no more original version. How to identify a genuine or original version of 44-7? Is Mexico the origin place of the cart? Thank you.
Regrds.

There are 2 versions of M44-7 that you will find. The older brown bodied one which was made in the United States and the newer black bodied one which is made in Mexico. I have both and have tried both, even by interchanging their styli and I can safely say that I did not notice any difference. Shure manufacturers its products in Mexico using the same quality standards and materials which were used in the United States and hence, there should not be any difference, unless you have a faulty cart

 

[reubensm]

the M44-7's 7K price tag in india is a not worth it, especially when the AT CN5625 is available for <2K. I've got both, the sound signature is pretty close, with the AT having a less boomy (but still in your face) sound that everybody likes in the M44-7, the Shure is worth maybe 50% more, not 400%.
Get one from grabmore (they have generic technics headshells also for decent prices)

I got my M44-7s at very low prices. The American one was purchased for $10 without stylus while the Mexican one was purchased brand new and sealed, came mounted with a Technics OEM headshell, paid $60 for all of it. This was in the year 2010.

 

[souravin]

I got my M44-7s at very low prices. The American one was purchased for $10 without stylus while the Mexican one was purchased brand new and sealed, came mounted with a Technics OEM headshell, paid $60 for all of it. This was in the year 2010.

Dear Reuben,

The M 44-7 with a OEM Technics headshell was called Shure M 44-7H. The suffix "H" probably meant the headshell. I got that from JR store in lower Manhattan.

Regards,
Sourav

 

[greenhorn]

For the better results: Can we fit M55 stylus in the N44-7 body without any alterations? Thank you.

Yes.
original M55 styli are not made any more, I'd suggest the Jico generic or SAS versions. the ed saunders ones are crappy.

there are cheaper evg versions of the Jico stuff available on ebay

 

[Hassan Khani]

Looks like most of the recommendation is towards Shure M44-7 and Denon DL-103. To start with will get a Shure M44-7 immediately and will start the process of getting Denon DL-103 as well. Getting DL-103 means getting a Step up transformer or suitable MC phono stage. Will need your valuable suggestion on Step up transformer first.

 

[prem]

You can get a Cinemag, Bobs Devices, Auditorium 23 or a Dave Slagle Step Up depending on your budget

 

[souravin]

The flow will be like

(a) Technics table +Denon DL-103 > MC phono pre-amp>Step-up transformer>Amp.

(b) Technics table +Denon DL-110 > MC phono pre-amp>Amp.

(c) Technics table +Shure M 44-7 > MM phono pre-amp>Amp.

You may kick start with Shure M 44-7 and then upgrade slowly.

My 2 cents,
Sourav

 

[sachu888]

I would suggest to get a Dl 103 as selling very cheap on ebay, and build AD797 HQMC Phonostage http://www.hifivision.com/diy/43653-ht-mc-phono-stage-ad797.html

Regards
Sachin

 

[jls001]

The flow will be like

(a) Technics table +Denon DL-103 > MC phono pre-amp>Step-up transformer>Amp.

(b) Technics table +Denon DL-110 > MC phono pre-amp>Amp.

a) if MC phono pre used no need for step up. Step up is needed if one uses MM phono pre. For DL 103, the ideal phono pre gain 62 dB. So if choosing step up, the break up could be like 40 dB from MM phono pre and about 20 dB from the step up transformer.

Also, the step up comes immediately after cartridge. Besides step up function, it is also chosen to match output impedance of the cartridge (typically 100 ohms) and present an equally matching impedance to the load (the MM phono pre) of 47 kohms.

b) DL 110 needs MM phono pre.