CD player or ext. DA-converter?

[wilfredt]

Hello Marsilians, Venkat,

In any case, if the DAC doesnt serve the purpose, what do you think should be the next CD player that I should look at (assume the budget is approx Rs 50K). Do you think CD players like the Marantz PM6002 / NAD C545BEE would substantially improve the sound?

Thanks guys, really appreciate your input.

Rgds,
Rahul

Rahul,

I am new to this forum and just wanted to share my experience...

I used to use NAD and CA players in the past and are excellent players in that price range. Although I am not sure of the prices in India yet, in the budget of around 50k, you might probably be able to raise the bar with a good used CD Player using vacuum tubes. From a sound perspective, they are in a different league altogether, in terms of natural warmth and smooth sounding. However, these might not be for all who prefer the utmost in dynamics though. I have personally used Unison Research Unico CD player which is an excellent tube player with a very good balanced sound.

One thing I really liked with tube players is the flexibility you have in changing tubes. We could actually get different 'flavours' of sound by simply changing the tubes, and we can get lots of info from forums as to which tubes matches best to your type of listening and taste. In my case I found the best pair of tubes for my Unico and haven't bothered changing them aferwards.

Just my two cents.

Thanks
Wilfred

 

[spirovious]

Finally Beresford 7520 is out with USB-

Stereo Audio Digital to Analogue Converter USB/COAX/TOSLINK

One opt in changed to USB for 160 pounds.

 

[marsilians]

Rahul

sorry for the late reply - travel has made me fall back a bit...

Hello Marsilians, Venkat,

The Denon DVD1920 is actually good for music too and can also playback SACD and DVD audio. Its probably as good as the oppo that is being recommended.

Venkat has covered this well. Dedicated CDP >= Oppo is the takeaway bu there are other factors that impact getting the most out of the CDP.

Follow this thread for my recent experiences - should be of interest to you as well

http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-playe...81h-pioneer-dv-610-a-post40538.html#post40538

Overall the sound from my system is quite good. The 901 speakers are also not as bad as people make them out to be .
However, my kids do play MP3 files using an iPOD or sometimes from my laptop. I have heard the same mp3 files from both sources and was amazed at the sound quality difference when it was played back from my laptop (HP DV9507tx : infinitely better sound than through the iPOD) presumably because of the sound card.

Frankly, the general consensus is that mp3 is for convenience and non serious listening. There is a place for the format in our lives but no critical decisions can be made on the sound charactretistics of the equipment based on its playback. Maybe this may happen in the future but we aren't there yet. Its like having news in the background while doing dishes.

I have recently purchased the Parasound and have exhausted my budget for the moment :sad:for a big upgrade to another CD player.

what did you get?

I hope you are impressed with it nevertheless as they make excellent equipment all around. As Venkat has noted, this is a very good brand that has held its place in the AV space amongst the best. If at all I will be close to brand fanatism, then Para will be one in my consideration.

Under the circumstances, I thought I may kill two birds with one stone if the DAC can improve the sound further for all sources.

In any case, if the DAC doesnt serve the purpose, what do you think should be the next CD player that I should look at (assume the budget is approx Rs 50K). Do you think CD players like the Marantz PM6002 / NAD C545BEE would substantially improve the sound?

I have seen some DACs in action but not very enthusiastic about their ability to improve sound when there are other weak links in the chain such as speakers, sources, transport and room treatments/ambience. To me DACs come in handy when I already have an adequate system that can deliver but want that extra bit in the overall characteristic, i.e., they do not fill functional deficiencies rather enhance a well balanced system.

Marsilians: Could you pls elaborate what you meant by "Tune the system"? I would like to do such tuning , if I understand how to go about it.

Are you familiar with the concept of calibration? If so thats what I mean. Otherwise let me know and I will put some words for it.

 

[spirovious]

7520 review?-

Beresford TC-7520 DAC / headphone amp - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 

[RahulH]

what did you get?

...

Are you familiar with the concept of calibration? If so thats what I mean. Otherwise let me know and I will put some words for it.

Thanks for the response.

I purchased the Para P3 & A23 combo. Its great to listen to. I am upgrading one piece at a time. Next in line will be a CD player (whenever I can afford one).

Coming to the caliberation bit, I have no clue how to go about it. Perhaps a few suggestions from you on improving the sound would be great to try out.

 

[heliumflight]

Anyone from DBC (Delhi Beresford Club) apart from me? :yahoo:

Anyone from HBC (Hyderabad Beresford Club) apart from me?

 

[anm]

count me in - if it has great USB function - and doesn't require extra sound card.

 

[SaurabhK]

Has anyone heard The APogee Mini Dac ? How does it compare to a Dac Magic or a benchmark ? Any feedback would be great

 

[neo]

I've heard all three.
My choice will be as
1.Benchmark
2.Apogee
3.CA dacmagic.

It would help if can let us know what you want to achieve.I believe you've been trying to sort out your front end for quite some time.
All the best.
Cheers.

 

[magma]

some help

i already own a 5yr old SONY DVP NS 530 dvd player.
amp NAD 325 BEE , speakers PSB image bookshelves(soon)

i am NOT looking at a dedicated CDP since i would not like to have so many devices ( i.e DVD player + CDP etc )

i have an option of either buying an OPPO 980 and using it as source for 2.0 music and movies ( and shifting my old DVD player to another bedroom)
or buying a beresford TC 7510 and connecting that to my existing SONY dvd player
i may also like to plug in

Please advice

which option is better

also musically is one option better than the other or are they more or less the same?

 

[anm]

Personally, I would go for a DAC due to the flexibility it brings to the system. you may use a comp, or an airport express or both along with DVDP.

regards

 

[Asit]

Magma,

A DAC like the Beresford (with your DVDP used as CD transport) will certainly improve the audio quality in comparison to your Sony DVDP used as a CDP. However, this combination of DAC + DVDP(used for transport only) will not be as good as even a dedicated CDP like the Marantz 6002.

I know I am disappointing many with a cheap DVDP thinking of upgrading with a DAC like Beresford. But the problem is not the DAC. It's the very poor transport of the cheap DVDPs.

I have a dedicated CDP (CA 740c) which can also be used separately for a very good quality DAC. I also do have cheap Sony DVDP (NS708). I have done this experiment and compared the performance of the DVDP as transport and the 740c as DAC only with that of the 740c alone, and the results were quite disappointing for the combo where the DVDP was used as only a transport. Actually some time ago, I posted the results of this experiment in some other thread I do not remember at the moment.

It seems to me a dedicated CDP (I know a lot of people do not like this solution) or a better DVD player (at least like the Oppo 980 or the CA 540D) is a better solution.

 

[magma]

thanks asit ji
i was actaully lookiing for a person like you who had actually tried out using a cheap dvd player and a DAC and compared it to another more expensivve player.

Unfortuantely you havent tried an oppo as yet :sad:
you could have laid all doubts to rest then.


i fully understand that neither of the above options would be as good as a dedicated CDP
im not trying to achive something that i know is not possible

im only trying to figure out ( through others experiences)
if the oppo is better or would my SONY DVDP + beresford DAC be better

has anyone compared the oppo with a another cheap dvd player + DAC ?

 

[moserw]

@magma - Coming to Oppo I've only used the 983 and not the 980 so cannot comment there for the SQ. I have used/tested the Beresford with a budget DVDP like a Philips and also with a PC and played MP3s too on it and IMHO it did improve the SQ quite a bit. While I will not comment on how it stands/performs against a CDP, I will however go out on a limb here and say you will be satisfied for the price you pay vs. the improvement in terms of performance. This is especially for low quality (like MP3) music. If you have Audio CDs and/or ripped music in FLAC/WAV formats then all the more better. Also, the connectivity options certainly bode well for the DAC especially when you add more equipment.

I cannot say the same for more expensive DACs, but the Beresford for the price it comes at is certainly very good when you consider the improvement in terms of performance.

 

[venkatcr]

@magma - Coming to Oppo I've only used the 983 and not the 980 so cannot comment there for the SQ.

The Oppo 980 and the 983 have the same circuitry as far as audio goes. So they will sound similar. I have heard the 981 and the 983, and there is very little difference in terms of two channel audio.

The enhancements in the 983 are all in the vidoe and miltichannle audio.

Cheers

 

[anm]

as posted in other posts by venkatji, a hdd based transport can be much better than a mid-fi cd transport. You can look that as an option as well.

 

[magma]

@magma - Coming to Oppo I've only used the 983 and not the 980 so cannot comment there for the SQ. I have used/tested the Beresford with a budget DVDP like a Philips and also with a PC and played MP3s too on it and IMHO it did improve the SQ quite a bit. While I will not comment on how it stands/performs against a CDP, I will however go out on a limb here and say you will be satisfied for the price you pay vs. the improvement in terms of performance. This is especially for low quality (like MP3) music. If you have Audio CDs and/or ripped music in FLAC/WAV formats then all the more better. Also, the connectivity options certainly bode well for the DAC especially when you add more equipment.

I cannot say the same for more expensive DACs, but the Beresford for the price it comes at is certainly very good when you consider the improvement in terms of performance.

umm im a bit confused IN understanding here
if considering all oppos the same 980 981 983 (hypothetically)
are you recommending i go for the beresford DAC + sony dvd combo over the oppo ?

venkatji
no opinion from you reagurding the ABOVE?:sad:

 

[venkatcr]

umm im a bit confused IN understanding here
if considering all oppos the same 980 981 983 (hypothetically)
are you recommending i go for the beresford DAC + sony dvd combo over the oppo ? venkatji no opinion from you reagurding the ABOVE?:sad:

I have already explained this in many threads, and people like Asit and Moser are moving in the correct direction. Let me put it this way. You have two options.

1. Short Term- DVD only. In this case, for pure audio, with or without a DAC, any of the the Oppo player will beat the Sony any day.

2. Long Term - DVD Based system TO PC based system. Many of us are moving towards storing all our music on PC in FLAC or WAV files. Using proper equipment, a PC based source (Non MP3, please) can sound as good or sometimes even better than a dedicated CDP. What do you need for this?

a) A PC full of carefully ripped music
b) A sound card
c) A DAC

There are two ways of doing this.

i) You can buy a high end sound card that has an excellent DAC such as the Asus Xonar. Some of the other possible cards are:

• EMU 1212M/1820M
• Lynx AES16e (erstwhile LynxTWO)
• RME HDSP (also known as Hammerfall)
• M-Audio Delta 1010LT
• MOTU 2408
• MADI XTreme 64
• Asus Essence STX
• Echo MIA series of Cards
• Apogee Symphony (PCIe)
• Digigram VX series (PCIe)

Using any of these cards, you can connect your PC to the amp and enjoy good music for quite some time.

ii) The other way is to buy a regular sound card or even use the sound capabilities of your mother board if you have a good MOBO. You then take the sound out in digital form, connect it to a external DAC (such as Beresford), and again enjoy good music for a looooong time.

In the second option, if you buy a DAC now, you can use it with your existing DVD Player till you move to a PC based system.

Cheers

 

[moserw]

umm im a bit confused IN understanding here
if considering all oppos the same 980 981 983 (hypothetically)
are you recommending i go for the beresford DAC + sony dvd combo over the oppo ?

venkatji
no opinion from you reagurding the ABOVE?:sad:

Venkatji has explained things perfectly.

What I meant was if its only music and you are looking for great SQ and nothing in terms of the future then a CDP I guess. However, if its a piece of equipment that you're going to build on further in the future then go with the Beresford. It works with most equipment if not all.

Now coming to SQ, the Sony DVDP + Beresford will not compete favorably with a dedicated CDP, but that's because of the Sony DVDP and not the Beresford. If tomorrow you will have a better CDP and/or move towards a PC based system then the Beresford will give you more points in terms of performance.

Finally coming to the price. Beresford costs around 8K. It's up to you to evaluate if any CDP in that price range will give that much of an improved performance over the Beresford. I've personally not come across any that will challenge or outperform the Beresford in the same price range. You would definitely need to spend a lot more than what the Beresford costs to achieve audio nirvana/audiophile SQ. Hence my vote for the Beresford. As I said it gives you a lot of options for the future too.

 

[magma]

I have already explained this in many threads, and people like Asit and Moser are moving in the correct direction. Let me put it this way. You have two options.

1. Short Term- DVD only. In this case, for pure audio, with or without a DAC, any of the the Oppo player will beat the Sony any day.

2. Long Term - DVD Based system TO PC based system. Many of us are moving towards storing all our music on PC in FLAC or WAV files. Using proper equipment, a PC based source (Non MP3, please) can sound as good or sometime even better that a dedicated CDP. What do you need for this?

a) A PC full of carefully ripped music
b) A sound card
c) A DAC

There are various ways of doing this.

i) You can buy a high end sound card that has an excellent DAC such as the Asus Xonar. Some of the other possible cards are:

• EMU 1212M/1820M
• Lynx AES16e (erstwhile LynxTWO)
• RME HDSP (also known as Hammerfall)
• M-Audio Delta 1010LT
• MOTU 2408
• MADI XTreme 64
• Asus Essence STX
• Echo MIA series of Cards
• Apogee Symphony (PCIe)
• Digigram VX series (PCIe)

Using any of these cards, you can connect your PC to the amp and enjoy good music for quite some time.

ii) The other way is to buy a regular sound card or even use the sound capabilities of your mother board if you have a good MOBO. You then take the sound out in digital form, connect it to a external DAC (such as Beresford), and again enjoy good music for a looooong time.

In the second option, if you buy a DAC now, you can use it with your existing DVD Player till you move to a PC based system.

Cheers

dear sir
in the long term option
option a)
buying an asus Xonar and directly connecting it to an amp
How do you make this connection?

option b)
having a regular soundcard
How do you extract the digital signal from the PC ( what is the connection used) and give it to the DAC ?
(my PC does not have a co axial or optical. i dont know if usb works
if usb is the one how do you setup the comp to provide the siganl via usb)