Do good cables really enhance SQ?

[corElement]

I think this view of improving or not improving sound is the wrong way of looking at it.

After a recent experience at FM avidyarthy's house, I can personally with experience tell you cables dramatically affect synergy.

Avid uses ATL transmission line speakers made by Hari Iyer which are warm speakers
I use Jamo d830 speakers which are considered bright speakers

Avid uses Lyrita Audio made Interconnects which are multistrand with MX termination.
I use Bogdan Audio Goldy IC with silver plated solid copper cores in hyperlitz configuration with Eichmann Bullet terminations.

Avid's lyrita IC on my jamos are too bright and lack separation and bass.
My Goldy IC on Avid's ATL's make it sound overly warm with no details or dynamism.

But when the lyrita IC is used with avid's ATL's the bright+warm combination balances out the ATL's warm signature.
Similarly my Goldy IC when used with my Jamo's the warm+bright combination balances out the Jamo's bright signature.

So yes it makes a huge difference. Better or worse depends on the rest of your setup.

Those people who say it makes no difference either have never heard polar oppposite equipment like Avid's atl's and my Jamos or their equipment simply is not transparent/ revealing enough to take advantage of better cabling.

 

[Nikhil]

During my visit with Mr Murthy at Bangalore I learnt that it takes about 150-200 hrs for his cables to settle in. As an alternative he uses a "cable cooker" to condition the cables before sending them. As a matter of fact, the cables I have ordered are "cooking" at the moment and they will be ready over the weekend. :licklips:

 

[manoj.p]

Is there a "cable refrigerator" kind of device to make sure the cables don't rot/degrade over time? That way it can keep those fresh when not in use and give extended listening experience at same quality like Day 1.

 

[corElement]

Is there a "cable refrigerator" kind of device to make sure the cables don't rot/degrade over time? That way it can keep those fresh when not in use and give extended listening experience at same quality like Day 1.

Even in a fridge they are exposed to air and oxidizes, the only way a cable will not degrade over time is if it's in vacuum.
However don't worry about oxidization. By the time a cable degrades, you'll have a new setup

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

However don't worry about oxidization.

Except at the connectors.

It seems to me like a creditable theory that many people hear cable changes just because they have removed and replaced the connectors, getting rid of a layer of oxide in the process.

 

[corElement]

Except at the connectors.

It seems to me like a creditable theory that many people hear cable changes just because they have removed and replaced the connectors, getting rid of a layer of oxide in the process.

Hmm, I agree with speaker cables, cutting the exposed end by 1 inch and reconnecting would be a smart idea.

But interconnects it might not be practical if there are high end terminations. I know my terminations themselves are almost 8000rs.
In such a scenario it would probably make sense to sell the IC if it wasnt performing upto mark after a few years.

Silver wire and silver plated copper oxidizes a lot lot slower than copper so people with those cables can probably breathe a little easier.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think it might have been here that I came across the advice, so yes, speaker cables. But I suspect that I've heard people recommend it for interconnects too. It is one of those things that costs nothing at all to try.

Gold won't oxidise. How come the cable companies don't sell speaker cables with the last, stripped, inch gold plated? Probably because it would be an actual major cost to them!

Silver not only oxidises, but reacts with all sorts of things in the atmosphere. Whether that layer of oxide/tarnish is a problem or not depends on if the oxide is an insulator. I'll pass on that and leave it to the metallurgists

 

[corElement]

Gold won't oxidise. How come the cable companies don't sell speaker cables with the last, stripped, inch gold plated? Probably because it would be an actual major cost to them!

They don't do it for speaker cables because majority of budget speaker cables come off a rolled up reel. And those ones which don't, are usually terminated by solder inside a banana or spade plug. I'm not entirely convinced of the benefits of a screw type banana or spare over bare wire but soldered, definitely.

Silver and copper though better conductors than gold, both get oxide on their surface sooner or later. If pure copper has a relative conductivity of 100 then silver is 8% higher and gold is 74% that of copper. The lower conductivity in not always a bad thing if used in small quantities and used properly in design. But entirely plating a cable in gold is a very bad idea.

Let's take interconnect terminations for example

The cables most use are made from high-conductive, annealed copper or silver wires - terminated with low-conductive, gold-plated RCA plugs. Most connectors, even those marketed as deluxe upmarket RCA jacks, are made from nickel and brass or phosphor bronze with a conductivity rating typically less than 28% IACS. Plating them with gold FURTHER decreases their conductivity. Because of this low conductivity and the use of three disparate metals, RCA jackseven expensive, ?ashy onescompromise electron ?ow and diminish the performance of the components they connect.

But if you look at high end terminations like WBT nextgen or ETI BulletPlug, they in contrast, are machined from high-purity tellurium copper (over 90% IACS) or pure silver (106% IACS). And then 24k gold is direct plated to the conducting surfaces. This provides up to 300% greater conductivity than the typical gold plated connectors used in the vast majority of deluxe RCA jacks. However when you go above 100% IACS the sound can become harsh. And in this situation a good application of gold plating can help control the harshness on these high end connectors vs suppress conductivity on low end plugs and protect from oxidization as well.

Silver not only oxidises, but reacts with all sorts of things in the atmosphere. Whether that layer of oxide/tarnish is a problem or not depends on if the oxide is an insulator. I'll pass on that and leave it to the metallurgists

Yep silver does oxidize as-well, but the section which is in vacuum seal oxides much slower than the exposed ends as compared to copper.

 

[kaushik]

Hmm, I agree with speaker cables, cutting the exposed end by 1 inch and reconnecting would be a smart idea.

But interconnects it might not be practical if there are high end terminations. I know my terminations themselves are almost 8000rs.
In such a scenario it would probably make sense to sell the IC if it wasnt performing upto mark after a few years.

Silver wire and silver plated copper oxidizes a lot lot slower than copper so people with those cables can probably breathe a little easier.

Good news for the owners of the DIY silver plated IC i am making .

For people talking about oxidation at connectors wont it be easy to wipe them with some IP alcohol and remove ?

 

[jls001]

During my visit with Mr Murthy at Bangalore I learnt that it takes about 150-200 hrs for his cables to settle in. As an alternative he uses a "cable cooker" to condition the cables before sending them. As a matter of fact, the cables I have ordered are "cooking" at the moment and they will be ready over the weekend. :licklips:

Would love to hear your impressions when you receive these cables from Mr Murthy. Please start a fresh thread so that it doesn't get lost in this clutter.

 

[kaushik]

@kaushik-van damme cable?like in jean claude van damme?!.hmmm that must be some seriously strong well built cable going by its name!!!!!where are they available?seems good going by reviews!.

There is also Blue Jeans cable :Very comfortable , casual usage like jeans .
Audio art cable : If you dont find art work then u can use these .
The Alien cable also : Looks like it came from alien spacecraft

 

[Lulla Singh]

There is also Blue Jeans cable :Very comfortable , casual usage like jeans .
Audio art cable : If you dont find art work then u can use these .
The Alien cable also : Looks like it came from alien spacecraft

all voodoo stuff ---------------:lol:

 

[manoj.p]

all voodoo stuff ---------------:lol:

Perfect. Did you know that voodoo works only on those who believe it? That's the big part of voodo. In order to make it work, you have to first believe totally into it. :lol:

 

[Nikhil]

Would love to hear your impressions when you receive these cables from Mr Murthy. Please start a fresh thread so that it doesn't get lost in this clutter.

Sorry I didn't see your comment earlier. I'm traveling at the moment so I haven't had the chance to use the cables as yet. Will be happy to share what I hear when I do though.

 

[kaushik]

During my visit with Mr Murthy at Bangalore I learnt that it takes about 150-200 hrs for his cables to settle in. As an alternative he uses a "cable cooker" to condition the cables before sending them. As a matter of fact, the cables I have ordered are "cooking" at the moment and they will be ready over the weekend. :licklips:

After 2 or 3 whistles i think they will get cooked .
When the cooked is ready do post impressions . I heard murthys creations at a FMs place and were nice ... forgot the price part .

 

[murali_n]

Hi all,

I had the same doubt as the OT posted, then did a small comparison, connected Sribuddy's Rs.100/- pm ( I think the brand was Prestige) cable in my system, and found that that it lacked the bass, sounded a bit shrill compared to my Monster cable which sounded well balanced across all frequencies.

N.Murali

 

[kaushik]

So in the discussion of sound enhancement no one is talking on the cable capacitance some info from TNT to add here for learners

A capacitance as low as possible is however desirable. It seems also desirable to have the dielectric (read insulator) in the Cable to be of as good a Quality as possible.
Given my (and many other peoples) experiences with Capacitors, Teflon seems the best solid dielectric, while Air is even better. Polyethylene is also quite acceptable as dielectric while lesser plastics and specifically PVC are out.

 

[vin_eme]

Silver oxide is a good conductor compared to pure silver

 

[vin_eme]

Good news for the owners of the DIY silver plated IC i am making .

For people talking about oxidation at connectors wont it be easy to wipe them with some IP alcohol and remove ?

Silver oxide is a good conductor compared to pure silver

 

[singh_mp]

Considering this seems the most apt platform to reach out to cable gurus, I thought I will ask some help on related subject. I need some suggestions on speaker cables for a new HT Setup (Klipsch Speakers with Marantz AVR) - I will need about 120 ft of speaker wire (max running length for surround will be about 50 ft) and cable will be concealed. Questions are:
a. About 5% of HT setup cost on cables - reasonable or excessive?
b. Higher gauge or better brand / quality.
c. Ease / expereince of online ordering and delivery in INdia from Partexpress / Blue Jeans Cable etc.?
c. Choice / preferance - VDH 16 gauge vs Monster 14 gauge Vs Audioquest 14 gauge

Thanks.