Do good cables really enhance SQ?

[asliarun]

Putting hi-fi aside, I think that the thickness of wire or gauge makes a big difference in low-fi or entry level systems, especially if the cable has a long-ish run. If you look at the analysis done in this article, for a cable run of 10ft (which I guess is normal), a 12 gauge cable increases the damping factor of the amp three-fold compared to a 18-gauge!

That is quite a substantial boost that the amp gets in being able to control the drivers in your speaker!

In fact, the problem becomes even worse for 4 ohm speakers. Even so-called 8-ohm speakers are not really 8 ohms - they often dip to as low as 5 ohms in certain frequency bands. Basically, it looks like it is important to have a "fat pipe" for pretty much any kind of a setup in the entry level price range.

 

[asliarun]

Considering this seems the most apt platform to reach out to cable gurus, I thought I will ask some help on related subject. I need some suggestions on speaker cables for a new HT Setup (Klipsch Speakers with Marantz AVR) - I will need about 120 ft of speaker wire (max running length for surround will be about 50 ft) and cable will be concealed. Questions are:
a. About 5% of HT setup cost on cables - reasonable or excessive?
b. Higher gauge or better brand / quality.
c. Ease / expereince of online ordering and delivery in INdia from Partexpress / Blue Jeans Cable etc.?
c. Choice / preferance - VDH 16 gauge vs Monster 14 gauge Vs Audioquest 14 gauge

Thanks.

If you look at the link I posted above, you will need at least 12 gauge if you want to get decent sound. 50ft is quite a lot!

Then again, I say this based on my own desi funda - I'm sure others can give more relevant suggestions.

 

[singh_mp]

If you look at the link I posted above, you will need at least 12 gauge if you want to get decent sound. 50ft is quite a lot!

Then again, I say this based on my own desi funda - I'm sure others can give more relevant suggestions.

Thanks. I guess 50 feet was a bit of stretch ad exaggeration on my part. My room is only 21" long and I was counting all the turns and twists getting the cable to back wall and lot of it was approximation. So guess it may all be even 40" or so. But yes, thanks. I get the point. Even if not 12 gauge, may be I should atleast try and settle for 14 gauge.

Thanks.

 

[Staxxx]

Without any question I can personally assure you that there is a distinct difference between cables (whether better or worse is a matter of opinion). I use some of the most transparent in my set up after a horrendous amount of auditioning spanning many years. (my current choice is Jorma Design, Analysis Plus Gold and Klee Acoustics). My system is transparent enough to shock me when it came to auditioning digital cables. However, I do agree that after a point of transparency cables are a matter of preference. They can also be used to mask certain issues with other components in the chain, like an amplifier that it too forward and harsh for example.

 

[sachin_k5]

Haah!! someone needs to run some scientific tests to find the answer and cut all these subjective discussions. Cables nearing zero in resistance will be ranked higher. How difficult is that?

I have used Finolex 99.99% copper 16awg electric cables for 1 year and then 'upgraded' to Bandridge Oxygen Free cables and QED banana pins and............found no difference.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Speaker Wire --- A History --- what makes a difference, what doesn't, and why.

 

[Staxxx]

Haha Thad, that write up is one of better known ones on speaker wires, as is the one about the coat hanger. It certainly is worth reading and I can believe in many setups, one cannot tell the difference between wires (note I don't say tell whether one is better or worse as after a point it is a matter of preference). However, if you do use a good high-end system, and audition various good quality wires, some discerning people will be able to tell the difference between them. I suppose it is a little like good wine.....some can and some are not too bothered. This discussion can become endless and the only answer is to try various wires in a very good system and personally experience it. Before I had my Klee Acoustic speaker cables, I had Jorma Design - both very well reputed but one much more expensive than the other. I am not sure as yet if there was much of a difference between the two....however both were better in terms of transparency and presentation than my previous HMS ones, although i lived with it for four years happily. I tried them all in the same system of course to feel confident to make these comments.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

that write up is one of better known ones on speaker wires

Yes: I probably found the link here in the first place!

I can believe in many setups, one cannot tell the difference between wires (note I don't say tell whether one is better or worse as after a point it is a matter of preference). However, if you do use a good high-end system, and audition various good quality wires, some discerning people will be able to tell the difference between them.

So, you go to a heart specialist at a top hospital, who wires you up to the very latest and most sensitive equipment: a doctor, an engineeer, an expert in every sense --- do you say, "but some discerning people will be able to tell the difference between this heartbeat and that" ?

This is where, with respect to your ears, belief deserts me. My opinions and theories are just that, and can easily be argued away, but a feature of the hifi world (or audiophile world) seems to be the dismissal of science, without which we would have no hifi, even when it is argued by engineers and even when it is argued by the very engineers who design and engineer the gear that is so lauded. There's a reality gap in the audiophile world. You think Roger Russell hasn't listened to "high-end" equipment? I think he's built some!

 

[Staxxx]

..but as some previous poster has pointed out, there certainly is some effect with regards to the difference in material used, design, structure, resistance, capacitance etc. between products? This is scientific surely and must manifest itself in the sound. I was a skeptic too, but the difference is easily told in many systems. Your argument probably then lends itself to hifi components as well...surely all of them are equal and if they are not, what makes them different?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It's quite a technical article, and I think it answers some of those questions. Designers and engineers know why stuff differs: they worked to make it that way.

 

[kaushik]

question should be rephrased :
will changing cables in my system ,enhance SQ?

we will get various answers to every setup for some possible upgrade.


After all digging deep into articles on CABLES from space craft with physics theories will not enhance SQ.

 

[longshanks]

Cables can change the way your system sounds but will it be an improvement is for you judge.

IMO a good quality copper cable like mogami will serve well.

 

[jls001]

After all digging deep into articles on CABLES from space craft with physics theories will not enhance SQ.

These guys seem to think so They have NASA guys and claim to make use of nanotechnology:

https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/audio-cables/ac-cables/atlas-series-three

Excerpts from above page:
"The Atlas Series Three AC Power Cable is the combined efforts of two power handling masters with backgrounds in high bandwidth filters for NASA"

"These Carbon nanotubes serve several purposes. Because CNTs are near superconductive at room tempurature (meaning they have nearly zero resistance) they increase the speed at which electrons are able to travel down a cable. Most people believe electrons move at the speed of light down a cable, but in reality they move at about 8.3cm/hour. Thats REALLY slow. Its the electromotive force itself that travels near the speed of light." [emphasis mine]

They also make some very bold claims for their powered DAC (a.k.a digital amplifier) *https://coreaudiotechnology.com/products/kratos-digital-amplifiers/kratos-series-two):

".1ppm -169dB Phase Noise TCXO"

Whatever!

 

[kaushik]

hmm,
seems we all want spaceship grade cables

,i am sure ISRO/HAL doors are not locked well,how about hifiv meet at isro STORE ROOM

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

These guys seem to think so They have NASA guys and claim to make use of nanotechnology:

https://coreaudiotechnology.com/prod...s-series-three

Ahhh... Carbon Nanotubes: the internet's favourite abbreviation! And of course they think so. Or say so, at least: they are trying to get people to pay over $3,000 a meter for a <expletive> mains lead! Copper Nanotubes!*

Come to think of it, I have a NASA guy! We only meet at concerts, though, and I have no idea if he is into hifi. I must ask him.

Core Technology might make wonderful equipment, and they might have Nasa guys. They certainly have marketing guys. If a company is a cow, then the marketing department is situated at the back end. Tried to read their "article" on computer audio: terrible writing, and I cannot say for sure, but I suspect that it may be technically inaccurate too. But maybe their gear comes from the other end of the cow.



*Moderators. This is not rude. What's rude about Copper nanotubes? If anybody thinks it is, can I help that?

 

[jls001]

With apologies to a famous American humorist:
The life of an audiophile is bovine.
One end to milch
Another to moo

 

[jls001]

Tried to read their "article" on computer audio: terrible writing, and I cannot say for sure, but I suspect that it may be technically inaccurate too.

An user review for their Kratos amp: Core Audio Technology's "Kratos" - a fully digital amp

Tech seems to be similar to NAD's M2, or Devialet D-Premier.

Perhaps their claims are more than just the horns of a bull (a point here, a point there, with lots of bull in between)?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

just the horns of a bull (a point here, a point there, with lots of bull in between)?

Nice, nice analogy!

Like life insurance and double glazing, a damned good product can be ruined by the way it is sold. Still, those mains leads go way beyond my personal believability level, even minus the word cover. but... Yes, I do recognise that the world is not actually defined by what I can believe in.

 

[malvai]

Ahhh... Carbon Nanotubes: the internet's favourite abbreviation! And of course they think so. Or say so, at least: they are trying to get people to pay over $3,000 a meter for a <expletive> mains lead! Copper Nanotubes!*

Come to think of it, I have a NASA guy! We only meet at concerts, though, and I have no idea if he is into hifi. I must ask him.

Core Technology might make wonderful equipment, and they might have Nasa guys. They certainly have marketing guys. If a company is a cow, then the marketing department is situated at the back end. Tried to read their "article" on computer audio: terrible writing, and I cannot say for sure, but I suspect that it may be technically inaccurate too. But maybe their gear comes from the other end of the cow.



*Moderators. This is not rude. What's rude about Copper nanotubes? If anybody thinks it is, can I help that?

Don't worry, we are not going to Moo-derate this 'un!

 

[asliarun]

Has anyone tried a comparison between a cheap 10awg and an expensive 16awg cable, especially for demanding speakers? I'm really interested to hear from people's experience on how much difference the gauge or wire thickness makes vis a vis other factors (like quality of wire, cladding etc).