Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speakers?

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

If sub 20Hz is not a concern, then yes, 12" will be fine. You don't even need to put a partition. If you do want to put it, then do a wood partition as curtains won't help much. The wood partition will allow your sub to go lower in freq because of smaller cubic volume. Most of the music is roughly around 40Hz and above. With these, a 12" will do fine. Its the movies that go lower, some even to 5Hz or something.

One more suggestion - see if you can do some room treatments, like bass traps or something. your room will be concrete and reflections will make it sound really boomy. I know its your living room too, so you are very limited aesthetically. Try raising the sub from the floor a bit and may be use some thick rug/carpet in the immediate ares of the speakers. That will make a lot of difference to your listening, than say upgrading speakers. Once you have the room taken care of, then upgrade the speakers if you feel the need for it.

How important is it to have a sub that can do under 20hz? Isn't the human hearing range between 20Hz - 20KHz? Is it true that under 20Hz frequencies can only be felt and not heard? If yes, should I get a bass shaker for it?

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

It's a choice. Now, to put things in perspective, almost all the commercial theaters go down to about 25 Hz. They would need lots of power to go down below that and that too, the performance won't be same across all the seats. So, they keep it simple and don't go that below.

But when the same movie comes on the DVD/Bluray, they have tracks that go upto 10, some even down to 5. That is where Home theater enthusiast picked it up. But not having below 20Hz extension is not a limitation of HT. You would still be able to get movie theater experience if you manage to get good and flat output above 25 Hz. As for music, it goes down to about 35 or so. That is the hard hitting drum tracks.

Yes, under 20Hz, we don't hear it. Well, mostly below 18. Below that, it can only be felt. you can get a bass shaker and that can compensate that. See if you can set the high-pass filter for bass shaker at 20 Hz or wherever your sub rolls off.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Well, my wall diagram is here (just in case you missed it). I'd could think of ways to cover up walls with stuff and get more furniture - but I think with one part of it being open - its going impact sound badly.

It will sound noticeably asymmetrical. Are you willing to rotate your living room set-up 90 degrees to make it more conducive to a home theatre?

 

[askii2]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

How important is it to have a sub that can do under 20hz? Isn't the human hearing range between 20Hz - 20KHz? Is it true that under 20Hz frequencies can only be felt and not heard? If yes, should I get a bass shaker for it?

Bass shakers will be useful only under 20Hz. I have experienced it in some entertainment park theater abroad. It's a thrilling experience when you hear it first time. The best way to use bass shakers it by attaching them to your viewing seat (sofa ?). That how this theater had done it. I am not sure whether it is for every other movie you watch at home. Perhaps you want to surprise guests by turning them on while they are sitting in the sofa :lol:.

Most sub-woofers have their lower 3dB point around 30-40Hz, which I believe is good enough. Only a few types of instruments go down to 30Hz or so, so under 50Hz range is less important for music. It's more important for explosions and such things in movies.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

It will sound noticeably asymmetrical. Are you willing to rotate your living room set-up 90 degrees to make it more conducive to a home theatre?

Welcome. What took you so long?

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

It will sound noticeably asymmetrical. Are you willing to rotate your living room set-up 90 degrees to make it more conducive to a home theatre?

While I am a little open to this thought, I guess this would make my living room like a half-done home theatre room - so I think I'd end up getting nowhere.
If I were to rotate my living room setup 90 degrees, my back when I sit in a sofa would be towards the open end - which means, for those 2 rears and 2 surrounds - I'd have to live without a wall mount and with stands for all these speakers - this would make it look ugly for sure.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

So, the open end does not have any wall at all to close the whole area?

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

So, the open end does not have any wall at all to close the whole area?

nope it doesn't as per the interior plan.
I've been thinking about it - whether I should use a wodden partition (ocassionally) to enhance the overall HT experience in the living room. Here is an example of the partition I'm lookin at -

I was wondering if I should get something thicker and aesthetically appealing and mount my left surround to it.
Turning the whole setup by 90 degrees would mean, that this partition would need to be built to mount 2 rears speakers.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

If I were to rotate my living room setup 90 degrees, my back when I sit in a sofa would be towards the open end - which means, for those 2 rears and 2 surrounds - I'd have to live without a wall mount and with stands for all these speakers - this would make it look ugly for sure.

Why couldn't you wall mount the surrounds? In your diagram, you have speakers mounted on the front and back walls (which is a bad idea anyway). All I'm suggesting is that you make these the side walls. The left side speaker can be mounted on the same wooden plank that you were going to suspend your TV from; or hung from ceiling mounts. Rear speaker can go on the back wall (on the other side of the dining area), mounted high up to that they're unnoticeable and out of the way.

Having the back of the sofa facing the dining area does a couple of things. Aesthetically, it avoids the typical furniture against the wall look that everyone else has and it acts as an informal room divider separating the dining and living areas. Acoustically, it gets the listeners away from room boundries, so you get better/smoother frequency response.

Also, I would re-consider the viewing distance to the TV. For a 42-inch diagonal 16x9 screen, SMPTE recommends a 5.7-foot viewing distance (30 degree viewing angle), and THX recommends between 4.7 to 6.6 feet viewing distance (36 to 26 degree viewing angle, respectively). Your current plan of sitting 12-13 feet from a 42-inch TV will result in a tiny 14 degree viewing angle. Like watching on an iPhone at arm's length. Not very immersive nor involving. By comparison, I sit 7.5 feet from a 60-inch display. Now, I'm not suggesting you sit four and a half feet from your TV, but please reconsider the 13-foot viewing distance.

A couple more questions and a request. How far would you be comfortable placing your couch from the TV, aesthetically and otherwise: 10ft, 8ft? Also, how far does the short wall (the one with the wooden plank) extend into the room? Finally, could you post a really simple overhead diagram of the entire (13x28?) space, just showing ALL four walls and nothing else (no imaginary boundries, etc). Thanx.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

I think this arrangement will also make TV viewable from dining area. Nice to have dinner and watch TV.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Why couldn't you wall mount the surrounds? In your diagram, you have speakers mounted on the front and back walls (which is a bad idea anyway).

Why is this a bad idea?

All I'm suggesting is that you make these the side walls. The left side speaker can be mounted on the same wooden plank that you were going to suspend your TV from; or hung from ceiling mounts. Rear speaker can go on the back wall (on the other side of the dining area), mounted high up to that they're unnoticeable and out of the way.

My HT consultant tells me that as per THX recommendation, wall mounting is a bad idea - typically your speakers cannot go beyond 5ft from ground. Now, even if I were to wall mount, I'd have to fill about 13X25X10 - 3250 cubic feet of area with sound and where sound escapes into the kitchen and the lougue area. With the existing design, we are looking at 13X10X10 - 1300 cubic feet. (which also means a 12" sub could do a good job).

Having the back of the sofa facing the dining area does a couple of things. Aesthetically, it avoids the typical furniture against the wall look that everyone else has and it acts as an informal room divider separating the dining and living areas. Acoustically, it gets the listeners away from room boundries, so you get better/smoother frequency response.

While I like this idea, it comes with a few problems. If you can scroll a bit and check out the attached pic - (I guess I got the dimensions wrong earlier) - you will see that my living is about 13X10 and about 4feet of this 10ft, opens into a foyer area. This means the sofa would be right in the middle of the walking space from the foyer. If were to move it closer to the wall where the tv would be mounted and away from the dining - it would make the whole living room look smaller than it already is. These are the problems with having sofa's back facing the dining area.

Also, I would re-consider the viewing distance to the TV. For a 42-inch diagonal 16x9 screen, SMPTE recommends a 5.7-foot viewing distance (30 degree viewing angle), and THX recommends between 4.7 to 6.6 feet viewing distance (36 to 26 degree viewing angle, respectively). Your current plan of sitting 12-13 feet from a 42-inch TV will result in a tiny 14 degree viewing angle. Like watching on an iPhone at arm's length. Not very immersive nor involving. By comparison, I sit 7.5 feet from a 60-inch display. Now, I'm not suggesting you sit four and a half feet from your TV, but please reconsider the 13-foot viewing distance.

I understand what you mean - I could probably move the sofa a bit and reduce it to like 10 feet for the viewing distance. In my current home, I watch it comfortably from 12ft, when I move closer - it works well for 1080p content, anything less than that - normal tv and even 720p, you can tell the compression and it won't be a great experience, IMO.

A couple more questions and a request. How far would you be comfortable placing your couch from the TV, aesthetically and otherwise: 10ft, 8ft? Also, how far does the short wall (the one with the wooden plank) extend into the room? Finally, could you post a really simple overhead diagram of the entire (13x28?) space, just showing ALL four walls and nothing else (no imaginary boundries, etc). Thanx.

Sanjay, firstly, thank you so much for taking your time and answering this question in great detail. Here are some of the pics I have - one with the furniture plan one without it:

Just the walls:

Furniture plan:

Like I said above, the comfortable distance that i'm looking at is probably between 10-12feet. The short wall with the wooden plan is about 10feet I guess.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Why is this a bad idea?

Lots of studies have been done on optimising speaker layouts (minimum number, best locations, etc), by companies like NHK, Harman, etc. You can read one of them here. They placed 24 speakers in a circle around the listener (every 15 degrees), and found out you could get somewhat close to the same results with only 5 speakers (7 would be better).

When using only 2 surround speakers, they found that placement made a huge difference. Surrounds placed behind the listener, especially if they had the same spread as the front speakers, scored really low in listener preference. This is the speaker placement in your initial drawing.

By comparison, surrounds placed slightly forward of the listeners or directly to the sides (120 to 180 degree spread) scored the highest, yielding excellent spaciousness and envelopment. Of course, this sort of placement doesn't allow for localization and imaging behind you, hence the advantage of adding another pair of surrounds in the back (7.1).

My HT consultant tells me that as per THX recommendation, wall mounting is a bad idea - typically your speakers cannot go beyond 5ft from ground.

THX certifies in-wall and on-wall speakers, so I don't believe they would ever recommend against wall mounting. Besides, wasn't your initial plan (at least according to the diagram) to wall mount all your speakers?

As for height: while it is best to keep the fronts at ear level, surrounds can be less distracting and more enveloping when mounted at least 2-3 feet above ear level. Last time you were in a movie theatre, how high up were the surrounds?

Now, even if I were to wall mount, I'd have to fill about 13X25X10 - 3250 cubic feet of area with sound and where sound escapes into the kitchen and the lougue area. With the existing design, we are looking at 13X10X10 - 1300 cubic feet. (which also means a 12" sub could do a good job).

I don't understand what you mean by "fill" a room or "sound escapes". Low frequencies need to pressurize the listening area, but that's the responsibility of your subwoofer(s), not your speakers (which are there for soundstage and imaging). If everybody in the room hears the dialogue coming from the same location, then your speakers are doing their job.

This means the sofa would be right in the middle of the walking space from the foyer. If were to move it closer to the wall where the tv would be mounted and away from the dining - it would make the whole living room look smaller than it already is.

Understood. Is there a distance you could place the sofa where it wouldn't be in the walking space? I ask because there is a couch at that same location in the furniture plan you posted and you were even considering putting a wooden room divider there as well. But, since it is supposed to be a living room first (and a home theatre second), do you prefer the furniture layout as shown in your furniture plan?

In my current home, I watch it comfortably from 12ft, when I move closer - it works well for 1080p content, anything less than that - normal tv and even 720p, you can tell the compression and it won't be a great experience, IMO.

In that case, keep the viewing distance around 11-12 feet.

Sanjay, firstly, thank you so much for taking your time and answering this question in great detail.

My pleasure. It's part of the fun of being in this hobby.

BTW, just to give you a rough idea of the layout I was talking about, I spent a couple minutes in Paint with your floor plan. See attached (speakers are in red, fronts at ear level, surrounds high enough so that people don't bump into them).

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Weird - I didn't receive an email update for this post! and I've been so waiting to see your reply.

When using only 2 surround speakers, they found that placement made a huge difference. Surrounds placed behind the listener, especially if they had the same spread as the front speakers, scored really low in listener preference. This is the speaker placement in your initial drawing.
By comparison, surrounds placed slightly forward of the listeners or directly to the sides (120 to 180 degree spread) scored the highest, yielding excellent spaciousness and envelopment. Of course, this sort of placement doesn't allow for localization and imaging behind you, hence the advantage of adding another pair of surrounds in the back (7.1).

Ok. As per my understanding the below set up is similar to what you suggested? (7.1)

Do you think this will work as well as what you suggested from the picture your drew?

THX certifies in-wall and on-wall speakers, so I don't believe they would ever recommend against wall mounting. Besides, wasn't your initial plan (at least according to the diagram) to wall mount all your speakers? As for height: while it is best to keep the fronts at ear level, surrounds can be less distracting and more enveloping when mounted at least 2-3 feet above ear level. Last time you were in a movie theatre, how high up were the surrounds?

Sorry, I guess I meant ceiling-mounted - not wall mounted. And about the height, the rear surrounds as per your diagram are about 13ft away from the sofa's back and almost at 23-25 feet from the fronts - and I figured you wanted these surrounds mounted on the wall but almost at 9-10 feet - if they are at 2-3feet above ear level on this wall, they would obstruct dining area and the crockery unit and etc. How high up were the surrounds? - well, honestly, I never noticed, but from the home theatre setups I have auditioned, there were just about 2 feet max from my ear level.

I don't understand what you mean by "fill" a room or "sound escapes". Low frequencies need to pressurize the listening area, but that's the responsibility of your subwoofer(s), not your speakers (which are there for soundstage and imaging).

I meant, the walls without damping, and the open areas (and windows ) that would be need to be factored in with turning the whole setup 90 degrees are probably going to result in more reflection of sound.

Understood. Is there a distance you could place the sofa where it wouldn't be in the walking space? I ask because there is a couch at that same location in the furniture plan you posted and you were even considering putting a wooden room divider there as well. But, since it is supposed to be a living room first (and a home theatre second), do you prefer the furniture layout as shown in your furniture plan?

This was the initial plan - the couch is not in the plan right now - I see it as a blockage to the walking path. I am considering a wall partition in that couch's place and with one of the surrounds mounted to it.

BTW, just to give you a rough idea of the layout I was talking about, I spent a couple minutes in Paint with your floor plan. See attached (speakers are in red, fronts at ear level, surrounds high enough so that people don't bump into them).

Thank You for taking the pain to draw this - Your suggestions are much appreciated. So, what you are saying is that the surrounds will be mounted high up and irrespective of whether the 7.1 is handling a 13x10 area or a 13x25 area - the experience will be the same?

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Ok. As per my understanding the below set up is similar to what you suggested? (7.1)

Do you think this will work as well as what you suggested from the picture your drew?

Sanjay can add more, but here are some of the issues in the setup this way.
The left and right wall in this setup is not symmetrical. So, your left soundfield will be totally different than right. No amount of room correction will be able to correct it.

The TV is not in the center of the room, that means, the left and right will not be at same distance from center. Also, the TV is on the left side from your couch. Not symmetrical. That will affect the soundstage.

The wall boundaries, corners is the place where you will hear the boomy sounds. Having the couch against the wall is the bad place to sit and listen.

Why these are so much important? No matter how good/expensive speakers you buy, most of the listening comes from the room itself. The room changes the soundstage totally and no speaker can correct it. So, its better to think about the setup and do it properly.


If you do want the room partition, the current slatted wooden one will not be same as right wall. Also with it, your room is still leaky, so it wont help with sub woofer. See if you can do the solid, plywood based partition which is almost like a wall. Also, the opening should not be near the left speaker. You will need to keep it towards the middle or back of the room. This will also make your room close out to the dining area, which you may not like.

With Sanjay's recommendation, you have symmetrical left and right. Your TV is in the middle, directly in front of the couch. You still have the open area with dining room and can watch the TV, listen to music in an informal way too.

well, honestly, I never noticed, but from the home theatre setups I have auditioned, there were just about 2 feet max from my ear level.

He meant about he surrounds in a movie theater. You can have it way above, near the ceiling. I have my surrounds at 8 ft high, near the ceiling, with pointed down at listening position.

I meant, the walls without damping, and the open areas (and windows ) that would be need to be factored in with turning the whole setup 90 degrees are probably going to result in more reflection of sound.

Every room has the reflections. In my case, I would rather go with symmetrical reflections/imperfections than asymmetrical.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Sanjay can add more, but here are some of the issues in the setup this way.
The left and right wall in this setup is not symmetrical. So, your left soundfield will be totally different than right. No amount of room correction will be able to correct it.

This applies to Sanjay's recommended setup too. As per his recommendation, the tv would be mounted on to the wall and to the right of the sofa would be a 10ft wall, but to left you would have only a 5ft wall! I could only extend it a bit using the plank - but the plank would have to be a huge one - about 6ft high and as much as 5ft in length.

The TV is not in the center of the room, that means, the left and right will not be at same distance from center. Also, the TV is on the left side from your couch. Not symmetrical. That will affect the soundstage.

Though the figure seems to suggest so, my idea is to place the sofa right in front of the tv, such that the tv is right in the center of the setup. So, the tv is not really going to be on the left side from my couch.

The wall boundaries, corners is the place where you will hear the boomy sounds. Having the couch against the wall is the bad place to sit and listen.

Will it help if I left 2feet of space between my wall and my sofa? This would reduce my viewing distance from 13ft to 11 or 10 ft - but I should be ok with that.

Why these are so much important? No matter how good/expensive speakers you buy, most of the listening comes from the room itself. The room changes the soundstage totally and no speaker can correct it. So, its better to think about the setup and do it properly.

You are absolutely correct - no denying that. Infact, I'm a little sad now - coz I'd be getting my first home theater (something that I wanted to own right from my college time - thats like 11 years now - I remember buying my first intex 5.1 which really wasn't a 5.1!, surrounding myself with 4 speakers and the woofer and watching gladiator over and over again on my PC and acting as if I could really feel the surround when all it was stereo!), and it won't be anywhere near very good - even after spending a lac or more on it.

If you do want the room partition, the current slatted wooden one will not be same as right wall. Also with it, your room is still leaky, so it wont help with sub woofer. See if you can do the solid, plywood based partition which is almost like a wall. Also, the opening should not be near the left speaker. You will need to keep it towards the middle or back of the room. This will also make your room close out to the dining area, which you may not like.

Ok, how about a fold-able 13ft partition .. something like this:

When this sort of a thing would run the entire width of the room on the left side - this will close out the left - make it look a little symmetrical to the right wall?
Also, it is fold-able, which means, most of the time it could remain half folded, but when its time for the movies, I could close out the entire space on the left?

With Sanjay's recommendation, you have symmetrical left and right. Your TV is in the middle, directly in front of the couch. You still have the open area with dining room and can watch the TV, listen to music in an informal way too.

Like I said above, if you look at the original plan diagram without the furniture plan, you will see that my right and left walls are not of the same length. I like Sanjay's recommendation - I'm going for a few more auditions tomorrow, I am gonna discuss it with my HT consultant and take his opinion too.
And, regarding watchin TV from my dining room - this is what I'd like to avoid once I move into the new house - its a bad habit and I've had this for a while - want to change it for good.

Finally, a huge thank you to you, Manoj - your inputs are definitely very helpful.

 

[sarge_in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

You have already got excellent suggestions from Sanjay and Manoj. Just want to reinforce a couple -
1. Keep the tv as much in center of fronts as possible.
2. Install the tv at a height where your eyes will be in line with the middle of the horizontal line through the screen. A bit up is ok, but not too much as that would lead to neck strain if you have to tilt ur head up to watch it.
3. Front speakers should have tweeters as close to ear level as possible.
4. Avoid HTIB packages. Buy AVR from an AVR company, and speakers from a speaker company. Speakers are, IMO, the most important part of the overall chain and you will do well to get the best you can afford from a proper speaker company.
5. I noticed you liked Focal speakers (the very expensive ones). They are, of course, an excellent brand and one of my favorites - I have Focals in my car and they sound awesome. Did you see if any of their lower model lines may be in your budget? You can get just fronts and center from Focal (or other decent brand) and the surrounds from a much cheaper brand. Even after all the hype about 5.7, 7.1, 9.1 etc, the effects from rears are nowhere as important as mains and front.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

You have already got excellent suggestions from Sanjay and Manoj. Just want to reinforce a couple -
1. Keep the tv as much in center of fronts as possible.
2. Install the tv at a height where your eyes will be in line with the middle of the horizontal line through the screen. A bit up is ok, but not too much as that would lead to neck strain if you have to tilt ur head up to watch it.
3. Front speakers should have tweeters as close to ear level as possible.
4. Avoid HTIB packages. Buy AVR from an AVR company, and speakers from a speaker company. Speakers are, IMO, the most important part of the overall chain and you will do well to get the best you can afford from a proper speaker company.
5. I noticed you liked Focal speakers (the very expensive ones). They are, of course, an excellent brand and one of my favorites - I have Focals in my car and they sound awesome. Did you see if any of their lower model lines may be in your budget? You can get just fronts and center from Focal (or other decent brand) and the surrounds from a much cheaper brand. Even after all the hype about 5.7, 7.1, 9.1 etc, the effects from rears are nowhere as important as mains and front.

Thank you for your suggestions, Sarge. I'll be checking out some of focal lower end models today along with Polks and others.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

This applies to Sanjay's recommended setup too. As per his recommendation, the tv would be mounted on to the wall and to the right of the sofa would be a 10ft wall, but to left you would have only a 5ft wall! I could only extend it a bit using the plank - but the plank would have to be a huge one - about 6ft high and as much as 5ft in length.

Yes, the left wall will be less. But at least first 5 ft are symmetrical. Thats where the first reflections will be. If you can add the 5 ft length plank, then it would be perfect.

Though the figure seems to suggest so, my idea is to place the sofa right in front of the tv, such that the tv is right in the center of the setup. So, the tv is not really going to be on the left side from my couch.

So you will move the couch to the left side, right? if so, won't your listening area be asymmetrical after you put the partition? What about the right speaker? Will it also be moved to the left? Not sure how the listening will be in that case, but one can only know after measuring the in-room response.

Will it help if I left 2feet of space between my wall and my sofa? This would reduce my viewing distance from 13ft to 11 or 10 ft - but I should be ok with that.

Yes, it will help a bit. If you plan to do 7.1, then moving little more in front will help more. That will depend upon how much space you in the front. Just see how much you can squeeze it in. Its always the compromise

You are absolutely correct - no denying that. Infact, I'm a little sad now - coz I'd be getting my first home theater (something that I wanted to own right from my college time - thats like 11 years now - I remember buying my first intex 5.1 which really wasn't a 5.1!, surrounding myself with 4 speakers and the woofer and watching gladiator over and over again on my PC and acting as if I could really feel the surround when all it was stereo!), and it won't be anywhere near very good - even after spending a lac or more on it.

Don't lose heart. You should have heard my setup a year back. And guess what made the big impact? Speaker positioning and room treatments. I moved my left and right surrounds 1.5 ft towards the screen and moved my listening position by a feet. What a big difference it made to the sound field. The sides and rear surrounds have a nice separation and the surround field is way nicer sounding. It's a big benefit to have someone like Sanjay local here, who can see the setup and gives invaluable advise. :clapping: It was great to meet him a year back at a local HT meet and he changed my audio perspective totally.
You will get there, no issues. Its better to have these discussions before you buy and do the install. Better to know pros/cons before buying. So even if there are any shortcomings, you will know about it beforehand and not have the remorse later. Upgrades are expensive.

Ok, how about a fold-able 13ft partition .. something like this:

When this sort of a thing would run the entire width of the room on the left side - this will close out the left - make it look a little symmetrical to the right wall?
Also, it is fold-able, which means, most of the time it could remain half folded, but when its time for the movies, I could close out the entire space on the left?

yeah it can work. see if you can get a partition which does not have any spaces etc. See atleast the area near the speakers is solid and not have any holes.

Finally, a huge thank you to you, Manoj - your inputs are definitely very helpful.

You're welcome.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Do you think this will work as well as what you suggested from the picture your drew?

It would only if you moved your couch a few feet away from the wall, which I don't think you want to do. With the seating against the wall, you're better off sticking to a 5.1 speaker layout since there is no space behind you for the rear speakers. The speakers on the side walls are fine, just need to slide them all the way back to the corners, in line with the couch.

As for the rears, imagine a pair of speakers spread out right above your head and firing past you. They'll never sound like they're behind you, which is the whole point of adding another pair of surrounds. If anything, you'll hear them reflecting off the front wall, which is worse (sounds intended to come from behind you will instead sound like they're coming from in front of you).

And about the height, the rear surrounds as per your diagram are about 13ft away from the sofa's back and almost at 23-25 feet from the fronts - and I figured you wanted these surrounds mounted on the wall but almost at 9-10 feet - if they are at 2-3feet above ear level on this wall, they would obstruct dining area and the crockery unit and etc.

Speaker distances don't matter much, since your receiver will set appropriate delays and levels to make all your speakers sound like they are the same distance away. As for surround speaker height, you have way more flexibility than with the front speakers.

Unlike the front soundstage, where articulation and clarity are critical, the surround field should be diffuse and enveloping, with a very general sense of left vs right vs back. To accomplish that, surrounds don't need to be within a couple of feet of ear level. If the rear speakers will obstruct the crockery unit, then place them above the crockery unit. Nothing more complicated than that. They will still sound like they're behind you.

Part of reason that surround height isn't critical is because our human hearing is not very good around us. Differences in height that would matter up front (where our hearing is best) are not important in the surround field.

This was the initial plan - the couch is not in the plan right now - I see it as a blockage to the walking path. I am considering a wall partition in that couch's place and with one of the surrounds mounted to it.

If a couch will block the walking path but an entire wall won't, then go with the wall. But stick to a single pair of surrounds. Better to have a good 5.1 set-up than a poor 7.1 layout.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Better to have a good 5.1 set-up than a poor 7.1 layout.

You are right on the money here, Sanjay. After reading a lot, and having done with some more auditions today, I realize that 7.1 needs a bigger room than I have and also I might not be able to tell the diff much in all the movies - it is obviously going to depend on movies with these kind of sound tracks.

So, here is what I liked after finishing all my auditions today:

Fronts: Polk audio Tsi-300 floor standers. (MRP 21,000)
Center: Polk audio CS-10 (MRP 9,500)
Surrounds: Polk OWM3 (MRP 11,000 per pair)
Sub: Polk PSW 125 (MRP 18,500)
Amp: Yamaha rxv-667 (MRP 45,000)

Total: 60,000 + 45,000 = INR 1,05,000

Somehow, this combination sounded good for my fav movie - the TDK. I'd rate it just about there compared to Onkyo 9300THX - not in terms of the quality of sound - but for the sound effects. I somehow feel the Onkyo was more convincing on the effects - the Polks were there, but obviously what stands out for the Polk is the CS-10 - Amazing clarity - the demo person disconnected the fronts and played a song just on center and the surrounds - oh boy, that is when you hear the true clarity of this amazing center. The sub too sounded pretty powerful - although it seemed to distort a bit with its vol set at max.

So, I guess I am pretty much sold on this combination. I will be sourcing the amp from usa and buying the rest locally - I plan to get a buttkicker a few years months or a year down the line or may be get it shipped sometime later.

Firstly, I'd love to hear your recommendation on this. Do you think I should get satellites instead of floor-standers for the fronts? My HT consultant keeps emphasizing the fact that the floor-standers have a larger throw which means I'd need a viewing distance greater than my current 13ft. Is this true?
He says that with my current distance - I'd need have to have them at 50% of their volume and anything more will result in distortion.

Secondly, the final price I'd get this whole package would be
INR 60,000 (MRP for fronts,center,sub and surrounds) + 20,000 (yamaha v667 import) - I'd like to negotiate and see if I can get it down to 50,000 (for the fronts, center, sub and surrounds) - that would get me the whole thing for 70,000 INR another 2-5k for wiring and installation - so a total setup for 75,000INR. What do you think about this pricing? Think its good?

Would appreciate a quick reply - I'll have to order that amp on amazon.com by tomorrow.