Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speakers?

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

For the audio, I think that's it (unless, you want to import speakers from US)
You can import a Bluray player, but I am not sure if there is a big price difference between India and US for those.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

For the audio, I think that's it (unless, you want to import speakers from US)
You can import a Bluray player, but I am not sure if there is a big price difference between India and US for those.

I didn't mean more devices for import - just from the receiver perspective, the accessories that would be required / could be of help. For instance, for onkyo it has a bluetooth dongle which can be bought seperately. So, something like these...

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Yes, thats why I think from receiver points, you are set.
Bluetooth and other sorts is depends on you. Bluetooth is good for using your phone as a music source and connecting to it through wireless. But that is on preference.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

From the choice of equipment that fedexp posted earlier, it looks like the fronts are more powerful and are 3-way.

I don't understand what you mean by "more powerful". Bigger? Louder?

BTW, the TSi 300 is a 2-way speaker (one tweeter, two woofers). A 3-way would have a dedicated midrange. Oddly enough, the TSi 200 bookshelf speakers look like a better match for the CS-10 centre than those floorstanders. Cheaper too!

In that case, isn't it right to say they can cover larger areas than the surrounds, at the same volume level?

When you say "at the same volume", do you mean equally loud? Not that it matters since coverage area has to do with the speaker's dispersion pattern (how wide it sprays the sound), not volume level. For example, if you walk around a bipole speaker, it will sound the same from every direction. That's a lot (360 degrees) of coverage, even when playing quietly.

By comparison, a horn speaker will play very loudly, since it concentrates the sound (same reason why people cup their hands around the mouth when shouting or use a cone/megaphone). But if you move off-axis, the sound will drop off quickly. Not great coverage, but you can hear it from far away if the speaker is pointed at you.

So when you say "more powerful", do you mean a speaker that can cover a wider area OR a speaker that can be heard from a greater distance?

If that's not the case, why use powerful/ wide-range fronts?

I give up, why?

Personally, I use 7 of the same bookshelf speakers for consistent sound all the way around.

How will surrounds being closer be the same as the fronts being closer to the listening position?

When you move a speaker closer, two things happen: it gets louder and the sound arrives sooner. So to compensate for that, you set individual channel levels and delays during initial calibration of the AV receiver. Actually, most receivers these days do it automatically.

If distance doesn't matter, is it okay to say the surrounds he is using, can be used for a 30 ft long room as well?

Instead of using hypotheticals, let's use actual numbers. I Googled the specs of the Polk TSi 200 and Polk OWM3; turns out they have the same efficiency (will play equally loud for the same amplifier power). Suppose the bookshelves are 15 feet in front of you while the surrounds are 30 feet away. Adding 15 milliseconds of delay to the front channels AND reducing their level by 3dB will make them sound like they too are 30 feet away. Just like the surrounds. Tadaa!

I just want to understand better and take advantage of your knowledge.

No problem, ask away. You'll eventually discover that most of this stuff is easy to understand.

 

[GeorgeO]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Buy bananas for terminating the wires. I use speaker plates,and connect speakers with short lengths of wire to them.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Buy bananas for terminating the wires. I use speaker plates,and connect speakers with short lengths of wire to them.

So, this would mean that I'd have to purchase atleast 4+1 - 5 speaker plates for my 7.1 system? Aren't banana plugs for systems where you connect and disconnect things often?

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Folks, your comments on the pricing, please.

Guys, what do you think about the pricing? Is it reasonable?

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

So, this would mean that I'd have to purchase atleast 4+1 - 5 speaker plates for my 7.1 system? Aren't banana plugs for systems where you connect and disconnect things often?

Not really. Many people think banana plugs introduce one more interconnect, but I think it gives a cleaner connection. Easier to connect the speakers and take it off. Plus, it snaps in the place giving you the comfort of correct connection. No more open strands.

You may not need the speaker plates. You can just have the wire come out little more out of the wall where the speaker is and add the banana plugs to it directly. If you do end up using the speaker plate, then you will need one speaker plate for each of the speakers and then one more big speaker plate where the AVR is.

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Guys, what do you think about the pricing? Is it reasonable?

How come nobody is answering this question?

 

[sandeep2082in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Don't AV receivers contain analogue amplifiers? Do you work for a speaker manufacturer by any chance?

I manufacture Audiophile grade speaker systems and crossover networks for as part time hobby.

 

[sandeep2082in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

I manufacture Audiophile grade speaker systems and crossover networks for as part time hobby.

It's true that AV receivers do have analogue amplifiers as a part but have to largely depend on their DA converters. And unless the quality of these DACs is really good their sound loses its body. Expensive AV receivers which deploy high quality DACs however come close to sound of an analogue amplifier but are very expensive.

 

[marsilians]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

... AV receivers can never sound like an anologue amplifiers and so it utter waste investing in an expensive AV receiver.

By analogue amplifiers, do you mean tube based amps? If so, AV receivers are never meant to sound like them to start with anyway. Moreover they dont serve the same purpose.

Go for good audiophile grade speaker system which not only will sound good even on an ordinary receiver but also keep an option open for future upgrades. Select speakers after carefully understanding their specs.(power handling, Roll-off points,driver compliment etc..)

This is not right. A good set of speakers won't magically fix audio quality if the source is bad to start with. One needs decent recordings, source, cables, amplification and speakers to sound right.

 

[sandeep2082in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

No I don't mean the tube amps. Although tube amps are from the analogue family. What I meant however were transistor based amplifiers with analogue circuitary. And though it's a fact that they're incapable of performing many of the functions of an AV receiver, they have a full bodied sound in comparison to their digital counterparts.

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

It's true that AV receivers do have analogue amplifiers as a part but have to largely depend on their DA converters.

Only if you transmit the source signal into the AV receiver through a digital cable. However, if your disc player is connected to the receiver via analogue connections, then the DA converters in the AV receiver are bypassed. But in that case, you're relying on the DA converters in the player. How do you know that's better than the DA converters in the AV receiver?

And unless the quality of these DACs is really good their sound loses its body.

What do you mean by "loses its body"?

Expensive AV receivers which deploy high quality DACs however come close to sound of an analogue amplifier but are very expensive.

Your comparison makes no sense. Since an analogue amplifier doesn't have a DA converter, how is the data from a CD going to be converted to an analogue signal?

 

[sandeep2082in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Analogue amps don't need to have DACs as they dont take input from a digital source directly. DACs are present in the digital sources(CD/DVD players). And therein also quality of these sources(and also the prices) depends largely on the quality of DACs on board.

 

[sandeep2082in]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

losing it's body mainly refers to the 'sound reproduction' in the lower-mids area(mainly the vocals). Sound from digital sources appears thin in this area as compared to full bodied sound from a rich analogue source.(try listning to any one sound track on same set of b/s speakers connected to two different amplifiers one digital and one analogue to understand what I mean).

 

[sdurani]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Analogue amps don't need to have DACs as they dont take input from a digital source directly. DACs are present in the digital sources(CD/DVD players). And therein also quality of these sources(and also the prices) depends largely on the quality of DACs on board.

In that case, it is pointless to compare an analogue amp to the DACs in an AV receiver. You're comparing a device that amplifies analogue signals to a device that converts data to an analogue signal.

That's like saying that a stove does a much better job of cooking eggs than a frying pan does. They serve different functions.

Instead, it would make more sense to compare just the amplifier section of an AV receiver to an analogue amp, since they serve the same function.

But if you connect to the receiver via analogue connections, then you're at the mercy of the DACs in your disc player. And there's no guarantee that those will be better than the ones in receiver. In fact, it will usually be the other way 'round.

losing it's body mainly refers to the 'sound reproduction' in the lower-mids area(mainly the vocals). Sound from digital sources appears thin in this area as compared to full bodied sound from a rich analogue source.

What do you mean "digital source" and "analogue source"? CD vs LP? Or are you comparing the digital output of a CD player to the analogue output of the same player? In that case, the source (CD) is still digital.

As for digital sources sounding "thin". That's never been my experience. Even with cheap players.

(try listning to any one sound track on same set of b/s speakers connected to two different amplifiers one digital and one analogue to understand what I mean).

I have, multiple times. The digital connection sounds better, every time.

With very few exceptions, modern disc players are designed knowing that the typical consumer will connect them digitally to the receiver. As such, they skimp on D/A conversion and analogue section, using the cheapest parts possible.

Which means that it is much more likely that the D/A converters and analogue section of an AV receiver will be better than what you find in the disc player.

 

[manoj.p]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Analogue amps don't need to have DACs as they dont take input from a digital source directly. DACs are present in the digital sources(CD/DVD players). And therein also quality of these sources(and also the prices) depends largely on the quality of DACs on board.

So, its better to get analogue outputs from CD/DVD player and use multiple amps (for multi-channel) or a multi-channel amp? I see some shortcomings there.

• You are then dependent on DAC of the player. So, you will need to buy an expensive player with good DAC. What with your other sources? Like Set top box, Game Console?
• What happens when that expensive player dies? Then you will have to buy another expensive player to take advantage of DAC. The players having mechanical, rotating components are more prone to failures than AVR's. Isn't it better to buy a receiver that has good DAC's builtin? This way, all your sources are helped for good DAC's. Less cables to move around if optical/co-axial/HDMI cables are used.
• A separate amplifier takes single inputs, how are you going to switch between the different sources? Or recommendation is to use separate amps for separate sources? AVR's have ability to take in video and works as AV switcher too.
• You lose the ability to level/delay/adjust each speakers.
• Lose Bass Management/Subwoofer management capability
• No Room Correction
• No equalizer/tweaking of the sound
• Ability to apply any multi-channel filters for matrixing the speakers?

The modern AVRs have decent amps in them. Good dedicated amps are NOT cheap. There are expensive AVR's too, offering dedicated amp section (separate power/transformers) Some AVR's have pre-outs and users can use those with dedicated amps if desired. Ultimately it all depends on how much a budget allows. But an AVR still is needed for the reasons listed above and people use them with dedicated amps too. Benefits of AVR far outweigh just having the dedicated amp and using analog sources.

 

[rsud]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

the speakers are the most important element in your audio chain. nothing else matters more than speakers. Great speakers powered by average amp will sound much better than great amp driving average speakers. But I still wont go for a bottom of the rung amp or avr.

Sorry but I must disagree. A system should be balanced. But there should be more emphasis on the front end of the system. If you are a true high-end'er and are aspiring for musical and accurate sound then good speakers will not compensate for an average amp. A casual listener may think so. But casual listeners are like causal eaters or drinkers, quantity or hype or fitting in is more important than quality.

If you are truly questing good sound and want an AV receiver I recommend getting Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Rotel among a few others. Denon is perhaps the top of the mid-fi heap. NAD just gets you into high-end.

Don't hesitate to go used to save money but get excellent sound. Check out ebay and a reputable seller. Its were I got my Arcam. I went from a Denon (made me not happy) quickly to a NAD (got me happy) to Arcam (got me very happy) and each was a huge step up in sound quality. My surround sound speakers are decent and better than average (Velodyne Deco) but not top of the line. And I could clearly hear each step up in AV receiver. This is my HT system. My audio system (2 channel only) is a whole other story, and yes I am a true high-end'er (analogue, tubes, and sound quality that 'I hear' above all else/hype).

 

[fedexp]

Re: Does pairing a good AV receiver matter more to a HTS than having excellent speake

Guys, comments on the pricing of the speakers, please?