Epson LS12000b vs TW9400

neerajbisht

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Some findings from the internet. Epson 9400 supports 3x pixel shift to get 6M pixels if the content is less than 30hz. Also panel alignment has to be turned off. This is making it more enticing to go with 9400 considering that LS12000B would be more than 2 times the price. Will update this thread post the demo this weekend.
 

Silencer

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Some findings from the internet. Epson 9400 supports 3x pixel shift to get 6M pixels if the content is less than 30hz. Also panel alignment has to be turned off. This is making it more enticing to go with 9400 considering that LS12000B would be more than 2 times the price. Will update this thread post the demo this weekend.

Right. But heard that LS12000 is stunning in person. Tough call for you. For us, LS12000 never existed when we were on the hunt.

Please do a detailed demo and update us.
 

Decadent_Spectre

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My view is that if you can afford a 85" TV then skip the projector, especially if your projected size is 110" or smaller. If you are looking at 120" image size and larger then carefully consider your use case, the projector will not have the picture of a TV, will be dimmer and can not be viewed with lights on, the only thing going for it is size. If fixated on a projector I would recommend a DLP over the 3LCD variants from Epson/Sony/JVC unless all you care about is the color black and so called "contrast" from a lower black. I have 3 projectors that I don't use anymore because I switched to a TV. Much happier now.

All the best with your search.
 

Silencer

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Aren't projectors meant to be watched in a dark setting to get complete immersion in the scene and in the story? It's a blissful experience for most. It is for me. In fact, many long for such a setup at their homes.

Yes, it isn't practical for everyone to have a dedicated room. So there are compromises and preferences. Fair and acceptable. But big screen is big screen. When I say big screen, 85" tv is no way small, I admit.

And current projectors, take any brand, are eye-wateringly bright in a proper dark room.

Contrast gives depth and dimension to the image. Higher end projector are advertised solely on their contrast levels. It is not easy to achieve. For me Epson has done a great job with 9400. It's super bright and damn good blacks. Very much watchable in mildly lit room.


Also, when we compare the cost, getting a projector is the wiser move. Not to mention the huge conspicuous big black frame hanging all the time on the wall.

If one can darken the room by means of paint choice or curtains or ALR screens, projectors all the way for me. To each its own :)
 

Decadent_Spectre

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If someone is watching a movie every 2-3 days or even every day then for brief periods the dark is tolerable and may even be preferable for the theater experience. It depends on use case. Personally I have a dedicated room and I found projectors lacking. I also find they are not bright enough in a dark room and can not be used with ambient light. I also disagree with industry trend that salivate over black levels and use lower black levels and mediocre brightness to inflate their contrast, something that is not as useful as people think. Higher contrast helps when the brightest white is higher and provides the same contrast rating rather than darkest black. Cost wise some projectors are cheap but when you start getting into the upper end models then the prices are silly for what you get, keep in mind these projectors have low brightness to begin with and as you make the screen larger the brightness fades away. It is true it is a personal preference which is why I bought up a different viewpoint. Projectors certainly cant replace TVs.
 

Silencer

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If someone is watching a movie every 2-3 days or even every day then for brief periods the dark is tolerable and may even be preferable for the theater experience. It depends on use case. Personally I have a dedicated room and I found projectors lacking. I also find they are not bright enough in a dark room and can not be used with ambient light. I also disagree with industry trend that salivate over black levels and use lower black levels and mediocre brightness to inflate their contrast, something that is not as useful as people think. Higher contrast helps when the brightest white is higher and provides the same contrast rating rather than darkest black. Cost wise some projectors are cheap but when you start getting into the upper end models then the prices are silly for what you get, keep in mind these projectors have low brightness to begin with and as you make the screen larger the brightness fades away. It is true it is a personal preference which is why I bought up a different viewpoint. Projectors certainly cant replace TVs.

If brightness is what we are after, we have pro models. But how many need or are ready to spend such sum? But you're right about the perspective.

Definitely Sony and JVC are superior in contrast performance. But I tilt towards Epson for its value for money approach.

Older JVC and Sony models were dim. Not anymore with high lumens are inevitable for even attempting a modest HDR performance.

But with this latest model, I think Epson is slowly aiming to take a spot in the JVC, Sony realm. The price of LS12000 clears says so.

Projectors "could" replace the TV. That's what technology does. It evolves constantly. Take UST projectors for example. It's only a matter of time before the tech evolve and mature and all are after it.

Don't take personal convenience lightly with our lives becoming busier by day.​
 

Decadent_Spectre

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It doesn't matter how bright a projector you use, it won't be usable with lights on. You'd need an ALR screen and even then the image is poor. I had the funds for a "pro" projector as you say, but I went with a TV because projectors are inferior for picture, only good for size vs cost. As before I don't value contrast from darkest black, only brightest white, as in I value contrast where the contrast comes from brightness rather than darker blacks. High lumens are not available in home/consumer models, they list 2000-3000 lumens and the higher models may go upto 5000, then the reviews will say in "best" mode it is less than half, if you want to use that mode. Brightness in consumer projectors has increased but not enough to be bright enough in a dark room, at least for me. I'd need at least 5000 lumens for a dark room and 100" inch screen, if you increase the screen size then I'd need more. No one who is considering the Sony or JVC will ever consider the Epson, as you say Epson is a value proposition. No projectors won't ever replace TVs due to inherent inferiority of the picture, need for darkness, degradation over time, and specific install needs. People use them because they are again value for size, something people trade if they can. I only shifted to a TV because a 85" TV no longer costs a silly amount of money like it used to. If the TV was still very expensive I'd still be using a projector, in the end it is value vs size and where someone falls on the spectrum.
 

Silencer

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We are comparing two technologies. Both have their merits and demerits. If one finds either of them enjoyable, well, why not.
 

neerajbisht

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My view is that if you can afford a 85" TV then skip the projector, especially if your projected size is 110" or smaller. If you are looking at 120" image size and larger then carefully consider your use case, the projector will not have the picture of a TV, will be dimmer and can not be viewed with lights on, the only thing going for it is size. If fixated on a projector I would recommend a DLP over the 3LCD variants from Epson/Sony/JVC unless all you care about is the color black and so called "contrast" from a lower black. I have 3 projectors that I don't use anymore because I switched to a TV. Much happier now.

All the best with your search.
Thanks for the advice. Have been using a projector for close to 7 years and projecting a size of 165 inch in a dedicated room. Having used a projector and gotten used to the large size I could never imagine myself going back to a smallish TV( 85 inch is not small but one fourth of what I am using now). Also TVs above 85" are expensively prohibitive.
It boils down to personal preferences I guess. For me a large size covering most of my FOV is a critical element of the viewing experience, even if it comes at a lack of some contrast. The projector has replaced my TV completely and is my daily driver for everything, even casual watching. On LCD vs DLP I am not keen on DLPs because I am sensitive to the rainbow effect and also most of the DLPs don't provide enough lumen output to counter occasional ambient light.
 
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Decadent_Spectre

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Thanks for the advice. Have been using a projector for close to 7 years and projecting a size of 165 inch in a dedicated room. Having used a projector and gotten used to the large size I could never imagine myself going back to a smallish TV( 85 inch is not small but one fourth of what I am using now). Also TVs above 85" are expensively prohibitive.
It boils down to personal preferences I guess. For me a large size covering most of my FOV is a critical element of the viewing experience, even if it comes at a lack of some contrast. The projector has replaced my TV completely and is my daily driver for everything, even casual watching. On LCD vs DLP I am not keen on DLPs because I am sensitive to the rainbow effect and also most of the DLPs don't provide enough lumen output to counter occasional ambient light.

If you are willing to make the trades and a projector suits you then good on you. Hope you enjoy. The rainbow effect can be taken care of with 3 chip DLPs, the part about lumen output is strange as DLPs typically have far more brightness, unless you are talking about the budget segment where it is a wash. I have the predecessor to the 9400, a 8300 which I find uninspired compared to a TV. The 9400 can't be much better off as the lumen difference is 100 lumens or so IIRC. The LS is about another 100 lumens, very low lumens if you ask me. If this works for you on a 165" screen then great, the 8300 didn't work for me at about 100" so I am guessing you don't need much brightness. If 3LCD is what you want and between these two then get the 9400 and pocket the change, IMO it's the same thing having seen many Epson projectors. I will concede if I didn't care about picture and brightness I would have also had an oversized dim projected image.

All the best.
 

neerajbisht

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Quick update:
Got a good deal from a store near my place. Ended up buying the 9400 without a demo. Did not demo LS12000B either as I could not justify spending 2.5 Lakhs more on it.
It has been 2 weeks and 90 hours already on the 9400. Summarizing the observations so far.
  • Black levels are a huge upgrade from the 6600. HDR content is great to watch.
  • Default Dynamic and natural are too bright for my liking. Mostly end up with cinema preset.
  • Tried calibrating in dynamic mode(without any calibration tools) as per the settings mentioned at https://simplehomecinema.com/2021/10/09/epson-tw9400-ub6050-ultimate-dynamic-calibration/. But found the image to be too green. Always end up moving back to the cinema preset.
  • HDR slider above 1 makes the image too dim. Will try to calibrate in one of the brighter presets once the lamp ages some more.
 

AJ Projects

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My view is that if you can afford a 85" TV then skip the projector, especially if your projected size is 110" or smaller. If you are looking at 120" image size and larger then carefully consider your use case, the projector will not have the picture of a TV, will be dimmer and can not be viewed with lights on, the only thing going for it is size. If fixated on a projector I would recommend a DLP over the 3LCD variants from Epson/Sony/JVC unless all you care about is the color black and so called "contrast" from a lower black. I have 3 projectors that I don't use anymore because I switched to a TV. Much happier now.

All the best with your search.
Totally agree with the above.
One thing to add from my viewpoint, I do have an 85" tv so totally getting it however having a totally dedicated large movie room doubling up as a golfsim room ( 3m ceiling) and projecting on a 230" screen ; that does make a huge difference and agreed once that large the cost goes up dramatically unless you can build everything yourself ( of course projector set aside ) it still is an exercise for the more affluent part of the population.
And yes again in tune with the above , am particularly happy about how my project turned out.
Cheers to all.
 
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