Help required from Vinylheads!

[myriad]

Hello Vinylheads,
I need some help in setting up my TT.

1. How to set VTA on Project arm?
The project arm has a white line and i have set the vta in reference to
that white line on both ends. Is it the right method?

2. What is the ideal resonant frequency and how you calculate that with
the help of HFN Test Record without any apparatus?
My arm cart resonant frequency is 9.81 (calculated with the help of a
calculator on vinylengine.com). Is it good enough or should i look for more
or maybe less?

3. Do manufacturer take into account the weight of finger lift when they
specify the tonearm effective mass?
Currently i am doing without a finger lift. I am cueing with the help of arm
lift.

4. What i find all HOMC carts have output voltage to the maximum of 2.5mv
with a loading of 47kOhms whereas all MM's have an output voltage of 4-5
mv with the same loading (my Sumiko has output voltage 5mv).
Will i get less output if i go for these HOMC Carts?

Regards
Vasu

 

[stevieboy]

hi vasu,

1. generally that while line ought to be a little down at the rear, ie the arm pointing slightly upwards, imagine a plane taking off. the best guide i've found and you can download it is from the sumiko website, it's the sumiko blackbird cartridge manual it's got superb instructions on cart set up. you'll see cart angles in relation to the table so you can judge which vta will be right.

2. the vinylengine calculator is a good one i think there's one at analogdept too.

3. i think if the fingerlift comes standard with the arm it ought to be included in the weight but you can check this. where people have to be careful is using cart headshells of different weights like with sme arms.

4. when you say will i get less output do you mean less volume? sorry didn't understand that last point. that cart ought to fine in the mm setting on the phonostage.

however, if you want to get more analytical you can explore cart loading like mahiruha was in his recent thread. it involves a bit of calculation.

regards

 

[mahiruha]

Hello Vinylheads,
I need some help in setting up my TT.

1. How to set VTA on Project arm?
The project arm has a white line and i have set the vta in reference to
that white line on both ends. Is it the right method?

2. What is the ideal resonant frequency and how you calculate that with
the help of HFN Test Record without any apparatus?
My arm cart resonant frequency is 9.81 (calculated with the help of a
calculator on vinylengine.com). Is it good enough or should i look for more
or maybe less?

3. Do manufacturer take into account the weight of finger lift when they
specify the tonearm effective mass?
Currently i am doing without a finger lift. I am cueing with the help of arm
lift.

4. What i find all HOMC carts have output voltage to the maximum of 2.5mv
with a loading of 47kOhms whereas all MM's have an output voltage of 4-5
mv with the same loading (my Sumiko has output voltage 5mv).
Will i get less output if i go for these HOMC Carts?

Regards
Vasu

Hi Vasu,
don't know much about 1,2,3 but regarding point 4 I can say with a moving coil cartridge 2 points are important the loading and the output voltage. When you using a HOMC of 2.5 mv your output level will be less as it is dependent on the internal impedence of the cartridge. Every moving coil cartridge needs a specific loading unless it is provided you cannot optimize the performence of the cartridge. A good reading is
impedance matching moving coil mc cartridge impedance ratio SUT Step-up Transformers for MC Moving Coil Cartridges CineMag Altec Sowter UTC Western Electric Newcomb TBB-103 4722 15095 15095A Bob's Devices
Thanks.

 

[myriad]

hi vasu,

1. generally that while line ought to be a little down at the rear, ie the arm pointing slightly upwards, imagine a plane taking off. the best guide i've found and you can download it is from the sumiko website, it's the sumiko blackbird cartridge manual it's got superb instructions on cart set up. you'll see cart angles in relation to the table so you can judge which vta will be right.

2. the vinylengine calculator is a good one i think there's one at analogdept too.

3. i think if the fingerlift comes standard with the arm it ought to be included in the weight but you can check this. where people have to be careful is using cart headshells of different weights like with sme arms.

4. when you say will i get less output do you mean less volume? sorry didn't understand that last point. that cart ought to fine in the mm setting on the phonostage.

however, if you want to get more analytical you can explore cart loading like mahiruha was in his recent thread. it involves a bit of calculation.

regards

Thank you Stevie,
Yes, with question 4 i meant less volume.
Regarding 2: I don't see any graphic illustration on Sumiko site
Regards
Vasu

 

[myriad]

@ Mahi: Thanks for the link.

 

[stevieboy]

Thank you Stevie,
Yes, with question 4 i meant less volume.
Regarding 2: I don't see any graphic illustration on Sumiko site
Regards
Vasu

hi vasu,

hehe i meant illustrations in the manual here you go http://www.sumikoaudio.net/sumikocartridges/manuals/ref_blackbird.pdf

regarding volume you should not have less volume cos your HOMC is pretty much the same as a MM as far as voltage goes which is why all carts with that volume are run through the MM input. i too run my sumiko blue point no 2 through the MM input, it has 2.5V output, and earlier used the sumiko bluepoint special evo III. volume ought to good through the MM input.

one question why are you concerned bout volume? i got the impression you already have a cart like this or are you getting a new one?

regards

 

[Hiten]

Hi Stevie,
Isn't 20 degrees accepted standard for VTA ? So why fiddle with factory set alignment ? Or do the styluses require regular checkups like humans do.
regds

 

[myriad]

Hello Folks,
I am thinking of going for a Denon 103 cart which is retailing for 160 dollars on ebay USA. This cart has dynamic compliance of 5x10-6cm/dyne (100Hz).
This dynamic compliance is in 100 Hz. How much it is going to be if you convert this dynamic compliance into 10 Hz ?
I have never made a purchase from ebay. Is it safe to make a purchase from there and the cart i am referring is genuine?
Regards
Vasu

 

[myriad]

hi vasu,

hehe i meant illustrations in the manual here you go http://www.sumikoaudio.net/sumikocartridges/manuals/ref_blackbird.pdf

regarding volume you should not have less volume cos your HOMC is pretty much the same as a MM as far as voltage goes which is why all carts with that volume are run through the MM input. i too run my sumiko blue point no 2 through the MM input, it has 2.5V output, and earlier used the sumiko bluepoint special evo III. volume ought to good through the MM input.

one question why are you concerned bout volume? i got the impression you already have a cart like this or are you getting a new one?

regards

Thanks Stevie,
I have a Sumiko Pearl fitted. I am thinking of going for Denon DL103 which is being offered at an attractive price at ebayUSA.

 

[malvai]

Hello Folks,
I am thinking of going for a Denon 103 cart which is retailing for 160 dollars on ebay USA. This cart has dynamic compliance of 5x10-6cm/dyne (100Hz).
This dynamic compliance is in 100 Hz. How much it is going to be if you convert this dynamic compliance into 10 Hz ?
I have never made a purchase from ebay. Is it safe to make a purchase from there and the cart i am referring is genuine?
Regards
Vasu

Hi Vasu,
its absolutely safe to purchase from ebay.

The Denon is a great cart. Try looking around for the same cart with the soundsmit mods. It gets even better (though, so does the price!) ;-)

 

[stevieboy]

Hello Folks,
I am thinking of going for a Denon 103 cart which is retailing for 160 dollars on ebay USA. This cart has dynamic compliance of 5x10-6cm/dyne (100Hz).
This dynamic compliance is in 100 Hz. How much it is going to be if you convert this dynamic compliance into 10 Hz ?
I have never made a purchase from ebay. Is it safe to make a purchase from there and the cart i am referring is genuine?
Regards
Vasu

ah now i understand vasu i'd suggest not worrying too much about compliance just take the published figure and run with it in your calculations. i'd normally say ebay's ok but then check what warranty you're getting versus buying from an authorised seller like needledoctor. a good cart indeed i have it in my waiting list for another table. in addition to soundsmith you have zu also who do mods but retain the conical tip. but then that's another ballgame altogether at another price point.

regards

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Stevie,
Isn't 20 degrees accepted standard for VTA ? So why fiddle with factory set alignment ? Or do the styluses require regular checkups like humans do.
regds

hi hiten,

the cutting angle varies sometimes so you have grooves that are cut at a different angle. also the cart angle might be set but one has to set the tonearm in order to have the cart set right. different carts have different heights which affect the angle it makes with the record. which is why one has to lower/raise the tonearm to get that angle right. so you're really not fiddling with factory set alignment of the cart you're fiddling with the tonearm in order to optimize the cart settings.

there was also an article about vta and something else two separate angles if i find it i'll post the link. it explained the difference in what is popularly called VTA and something else forget the exact acronym right now.

regards

 

[myriad]

Hi Vasu,
its absolutely safe to purchase from ebay.

The Denon is a great cart. Try looking around for the same cart with the soundsmit mods. It gets even better (though, so does the price!) ;-)

Thanks Malvai,
Didn't find any soundsmith tipped Denon on ebay.
I have a Project RPM4. I don't want a cartridge which could be an overkill for my TT.
Regards
Vasu

 

[malvai]

Thanks Malvai,
Didn't find any soundsmith tipped Denon on ebay.
I have a Project RPM4. I don't want a cartridge which could be an overkill for my TT.
Regards
Vasu

Oh!
Then the soundsmith tweaked Denon would be a very huge overkill.

Go for the regular denon 103.

Also, invest in some cartridge alignment gear. My suggestion is that you go to elusivedisc and get your hands on a MOFI tonearm and cart alignment disc. this will help you do the job accurately. If you want you can go a step further and get a KAB alignment tool. These two tools are very nicely priced. So price wise they make sense as well....

Between these two, I believe, one can achive great precesion.

I have ordered a set for me, as the stock tool that came with my Clearadudio Ambient is a bit too basic for my needs, in the long term.

You too seem to be taking vinyl quite seriously, hence, I suggest you order the same tools. It's a one time investment, that will come handy for years and years!

 

[myriad]

Oh!
Then the soundsmith tweaked Denon would be a very huge overkill.

Go for the regular denon 103.

Also, invest in some cartridge alignment gear. My suggestion is that you go to elusivedisc and get your hands on a MOFI tonearm and cart alignment disc. this will help you do the job accurately. If you want you can go a step further and get a KAB alignment tool. These two tools are very nicely priced. So price wise they make sense as well....

Between these two, I believe, one can achive great precesion.

I have ordered a set for me, as the stock tool that came with my Clearadudio Ambient is a bit too basic for my needs, in the long term.

You too seem to be taking vinyl quite seriously, hence, I suggest you order the same tools. It's a one time investment, that will come handy for years and years!

Malvai,
You have a great TT rig. If i am not wrong you had a Project before.

 

[malvai]

Malvai,
You have a great TT rig. If i am not wrong you had a Project before.

Yup. Had it until very recently. It now with Sid Trehan.

I think even the Projects are great TT's for the money. Did you know that many of the Rega's and the NAD TT's are rebadged Project's?

This indeed says something about them doesn't it?

You know to truly outdo a Project one has to spend atleast 2-3 times. Only then is there a true difference in sound.

The Clearaudio Ambient did that for me. But it cost lots.

So, IMHO, you have a great deal. Truly great.

you know, the real trick for you now is to match the cartridge to the arm. Also, get yourself a good phono stage.

If you dont already have one, I's recommend Shaizada's. He has put one up for sale. GRAB IT. Its gonna be in your rig even after you upgarde your TT to a deal that is 3 times its price. The phono stage wil amke all the difference.

This particular one will allow you to tweak imredences etc into 7000+ combinations, so no cartrige will ever be a limitation for you, as long as it has complaince with your tonearm.

 

[Sidharth Trehan]

Yup. Had it until very recently. It now with Sid Trehan.

I think even the Projects are great TT's for the money. Did you know that many of the Rega's and the NAD TT's are rebadged Project's?

This indeed says something about them doesn't it?

You know to truly outdo a Project one has to spend atleast 2-3 times. Only then is there a true difference in sound.

The Clearaudio Ambient did that for me. But it cost lots.

So, IMHO, you have a great deal. Truly great.

you know, the real trick for you now is to match the cartridge to the arm. Also, get yourself a good phono stage.

If you dont already have one, I's recommend Shaizada's. He has put one up for sale. GRAB IT. Its gonna be in your rig even after you upgarde your TT to a deal that is 3 times its price. The phono stage wil amke all the difference.

This particular one will allow you to tweak imredences etc into 7000+ combinations, so no cartrige will ever be a limitation for you, as long as it has complaince with your tonearm.

Yes, the baby is with me and i made it look better. Just gave it a dry shower

 

[myriad]

Yup. Had it until very recently. It now with Sid Trehan.

I think even the Projects are great TT's for the money. Did you know that many of the Rega's and the NAD TT's are rebadged Project's?

This indeed says something about them doesn't it?

You know to truly outdo a Project one has to spend atleast 2-3 times. Only then is there a true difference in sound.

The Clearaudio Ambient did that for me. But it cost lots.

So, IMHO, you have a great deal. Truly great.

you know, the real trick for you now is to match the cartridge to the arm. Also, get yourself a good phono stage.

If you dont already have one, I's recommend Shaizada's. He has put one up for sale. GRAB IT. Its gonna be in your rig even after you upgarde your TT to a deal that is 3 times its price. The phono stage wil amke all the difference.

This particular one will allow you to tweak imredences etc into 7000+ combinations, so no cartrige will ever be a limitation for you, as long as it has complaince with your tonearm.

Malvai
I have made up my mind to upgrade from RPM4. But i want to keep RPM4 also as it will not fetch me much money. Moreover, i can play old and used records on the same.

 

[malvai]

Malvai
I have made up my mind to upgrade from RPM4. But i want to keep RPM4 also as it will not fetch me much money. Moreover, i can play old and used records on the same.

Super Idea!

I am gonna be doing the same with my Thorens TD 124 Mk1, once I restore it!

This makes it all the more imp for you to get the said Cart alignment gear.

What will you be upgrading to?

 

[myriad]

Super Idea!

I am gonna be doing the same with my Thorens TD 124 Mk1, once I restore it!

This makes it all the more imp for you to get the said Cart alignment gear.

What will you be upgrading to?

Malvai,
I will buy a cart alignment gear once i buy a better TT.
I haven't thought of what i will upgrade to. I know one thing, it has to give me good VFM.
Regards
Vasu