Is AV Receiver good for Music ?

[Analogous]

We should ask for opinions. I have seen @Analogous who has moved from a floorstander to bookshelves. He also posted a article about subwoofers which made lot of logical sense that any speaker has to work hard when it does the full range. Especiall the low frequencies which need lot of power on demand and a woofer with sufficient diameter. The LF is best handled by a subwoofer. So my thought is why buy a floorstander when you will anyway use a subwoofer? What is your opinion on this @Analogous regarding floorstanders / bookshelves? Asking because you have experience with both in your own room and that experience counts more than listening to a setup in a showroom.

@mbhangui, thanks for the question. I did move from FS to BS (that abbreviation sounds bad)
I do not mean to imply that FS can not work in smaller rooms.
I had to move from a large hall/ sitting room which required more power and larger speakers to sound good, to a smaller room. In the smaller room I found the same speakers and amp very challenging and difficult to enjoy. I had a sense they were putting out too much energy (?) for the small space and sounded muddy. I just couldn’t get the placement right as the largish FS needed more space all around. This was possible in the hall but not in the smaller room. I then moved to BS which I am happy with. Please keep in mind my experience is with that one FS only. Later I bought a smaller FS (Spendor A5R) that sounds great in the small room too.

 

[srinisundar]

In General, it is a bullshit that a floor stander cannot work in small room. May be people are not spending considerable time to setup properly as like they research to buy the same. In smaller room, proper gears supporting to fulfil to drive will make any speakers to sing at-least to half of itz potential with simplest efforts.

I don't know how many people have visited earlier Audio people, Chennai listening room and there is acapella speakers placed in a very small room, does it not singing to a listening level ??? Come on Guys i have placed my Altec A5 in a 10 feet width room...

 

[Analogous]

I feel the problem with my large speakers in the small room is that I needed to be farther away from them for the drivers to integrate together and not sound like separate woofer/midrange/tweeter point sources.

Bookshelf sized speakers and small towers should work well in a smaller room. Ideally, you would want enough space so that the speakers can be well out into the room, away from the side walls, and the listener away from the rear wall to achieve the best imaging if that's important to you.

 

[mbhangui]

I feel the problem with my large speakers in the small room is that I needed to be farther away from them for the drivers to integrate together and not sound like separate woofer/midrange/tweeter point sources.

Bookshelf sized speakers and small towers should work well in a smaller room. Ideally, you would want enough space so that the speakers can be well out into the room, away from the side walls, and the listener away from the rear wall to achieve the best imaging if that's important to you.

My theory is that the FS have much larger radiating surface from which sound comes and hence controlling reflections from the room walls and objects placed in the room become a bigger challenge compared to BS. In my earlier house I had the FS in the living room, dining room (typical indian flats). There was no issue then. In my current flat I have dedicated one bedroom as the audio video room. It is smaller and there is lot of clutter. I have done room treatment too. Acoustic ceiling, carpet. Absorbers for side and back wall. The cupboard behind the speakers have absorbent sheets on the doors. But still they dont sound the way they sounded in my earlier house's living room. Also in a small room there are limited positions where you can move your speakers and where your listening position can be.

 

[spirovious]

But an IA cannot replace an avr for movies.

The main reason is the way its down mixed. With avr, you can try stereo mode even if input is true 5.1/atmos, you will find dynamics of movie is lost. AVR can represent it in better way than stereo amp as it decodes surround format better. Also most of budget IA are 40 to 60 watt and AVR claims 90+ watts in stereo. So many times avrs can be felt more powerful though not refined while listening.

 

[hpdinesh]

My theory is that the FS have much larger radiating surface from which sound comes and hence controlling reflections from the room walls and objects placed in the room become a bigger challenge compared to BS. In my earlier house I had the FS in the living room, dining room (typical indian flats). There was no issue then. In my current flat I have dedicated one bedroom as the audio video room. It is smaller and there is lot of clutter. I have done room treatment too. Acoustic ceiling, carpet. Absorbers for side and back wall. The cupboard behind the speakers have absorbent sheets on the doors. But still they dont sound the way they sounded in my earlier house's living room. Also in a small room there are limited positions where you can move your speakers and where your listening position can be.

I am not sure whether you already mentioned it. Is it possible for you to take measurements in your room and find out what might be the issue? I feel the treatment should be done based on the issue observed in the room.

I have Tannoy XT8F in a 10x11 room. You can imagine how worst it can sound if not treated properly. I listen near field so its not that bad and I have treated all the corners from floor to ceiling. In fact, I have placed corner traps in the entire ceiling.

 

[ajuvignesh]

I am not sure whether you already mentioned it. Is it possible for you to take measurements in your room and find out what might be the issue? I feel the treatment should be done based on the issue observed in the room.

I have Tannoy XT8F in a 10x11 room. You can imagine how worst it can sound if not treated properly. I listen near field so its not that bad and I have treated all the corners from floor to ceiling. In fact, I have placed corner traps in the entire ceiling.

Boss, yours is a coaxial speaker. It is a point source and it performs better than other floorstanders in your room.

 

[SiR]

Position plays a huge role. It can make or break the sound.
FS in tight spaces will inevitably excite the room and become boomy.
BS may be more forgiving and adaptable.

@SiR
I think in your listening space, side wall reflections may be mitigated due to layout.
One side hallway, other side utility/balcony. Properly positioning may reduce side wall effect to a great extent.
Put the sub behind right speaker and throw the sound into long corner. And AVR will also chip in.
I have said this earlier. Look at BS too while auditioning.

Cheers,
Raghu

I've enclosed my Living Room setup, where you can see the listening space has wall one side and the other side, walkway and other utilities area

My concern is will the FS be boomy in this space or the BS will be sufficient enough

I would use Sub for both music and movies

Covid or not, getting a home demo is a stretch.

Sure, will try to have one, before I decide

 

[SiR]

Don't go by listening area, give the bass a long enough rope to hang itself with (kidding)
It's a great sized room for a floorstander.
In fact, less punchy BS/satellites will struggle in your room.

FS - as of now I prefer QA 3050i, Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 , Dali Oberon 5
BS - KEF Q350, Polk r200, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, QA 3030i

There are other consideration too, but above one are serious contenders, provided if I get better one auditioned

 

[raghupb]

Do you already have the AV rack? If not reduce it to 5.5-6 feet.
This way you'll have some space to play around with for speaker/sub placement.
I have a very similar layout at home. Expect the listening area is one segment of an L-shaped room.
And have "no man's land" and dining area on the long side of the L.
You will not really have side wall reflection to worry about.
Back and front wall, yes. But this can be overcome with a combination of placement and EQ in the AVR.
I'm not a fan of room treatment in a living room, so definitely would not suggest it.

Audition both BS and FS and decide. Why restrict yourself when auditioning?
Basic stands from Sound Foundations are about 10-12K. Good stuff.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[SiR]

Do you already have the AV rack? If not reduce it to 5.5-6 feet.
This way you'll have some space to play around with for speaker/sub placement.
I have a very similar layout at home. Expect the listening area is one segment of an L-shaped room.
And have "no man's land" dining area on the long side of the L.
You will not really have side wall reflection to worry about.
Back and front wall, yes. But this can be overcome with a combination of placement and EQ in the AVR.
I'm not a fan of room treatment in a living room, so definitely would not suggest it.

Audition both BS and FS and decide. Why restrict yourself when auditioning?
Basic stands from Sound Foundations are about 10-12K. Good stuff.

Cheers,
Raghu

AV rack cannot be reduced Raghu

It was made to accommodate all the AV gears like AV receiver, Speaker ( C ), Set top box, Blueray Disc players and other stuffs like Stabilizers etc

You will not really have side wall reflection to worry about.

Hope so, the wall in the right side, with window, is to be curtained with thick cloth

Basic stands from Sound Foundations are about 10-12K. Good stuff.

Will consider if I go for BS

 

[ssf]

You have a higher budget for the floorstanders than the bookshelfs. Audition bookshelfs at the same price range as the floorstanders and when paired with a sub, you will have a very nice sounding system.

 

[raghupb]

Firstly, love the stonework back wall!!

Keep the window open when listening to music, thus mitigating reflection.
Share the joy with your neighbors

If you do decide to change the AV furniture in the future, keep something like this in mind.

Showcase your audio/video setup here!......

Finished a long pending build - Tubelab TSE-II (2A3). Chassis was made by Nishant (Beginner_N) :)

www.hifivision.com

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[SiR]

You have a higher budget for the floorstanders than the bookshelfs. Audition bookshelfs at the same price range as the floorstanders and when paired with a sub, you will have a very nice sounding system.

Thanks for the input

Audition bookshelfs at the same price range

Can you name few ?

 

[SiR]

Firstly, love the stonework back wall!!

Keep the window open when listening to music, thus mitigating reflection.
Share the joy with your neighbors

If you do decide to change the AV furniture in the future, keep something like this in mind.

Showcase your audio/video setup here!......

Finished a long pending build - Tubelab TSE-II (2A3). Chassis was made by Nishant (Beginner_N) :)

www.hifivision.com

Cheers,
Raghu

Firstly, love the stonework back wall!!

If you do decide to change the AV furniture in the future, keep something like this in mind.

Compact and well thought one too, great

I don't think we would change it near future, as it is just 2 yrs old but will be in my mind, if the situation arises

 

[raghupb]

<snip>

I don't think we would change it near future, as it is just 2 yrs old but will be in my mind, if the situation arises

Have you heard of HFV's classified section?
AV furniture can be bought and sold
Reach out to the forum for solid lawyer arguments to "try and convince" family

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[ssf]

Can you name few ?

From the top of my mind, I would say the Wharfedale Evo 4.2, Quad S2's. Fyne audio I heard also has good bookshelfs at around the price range.

 

[SiR]

From the top of my mind, I would say the Wharfedale Evo 4.2, Quad S2's. Fyne audio I heard also has good bookshelfs at around the price range.

welcome your response !!

Have heard good reviews about Quad S2 and Evo 4.2



When comes to BS, is placing the speakers on a Stand is the only option ?

What if we place BS on Polipods, or layer of foam or an absorptive material [ or Iso Acoustics Speaker Isolation stands ]
on the AV Cabinet, any FMs have done it ?

Pls share your thoughts, if you have used it

 

[ssf]

You should be fine placing bookshelfs on isolation pads / ISO speaker isolation stands. It would work well on the furniture you have posted above. Only, make sure that the tweeters are at your ear height when seated.

My height speakers are placed on top of my bookshelf using the material linked below and it does a good job of isolating the speakers from the furniture.

https://www.amazon.in/YGM-Acoustic-...2&hvtargid=pla-849061055725&psc=1&ext_vrnc=hi




My Quad S2's on stands with foam isolators under them.

 

[SiR]

You should be fine placing bookshelfs on isolation pads / ISO speaker isolation stands. It would work well on the furniture you have posted above. Only, make sure that the tweeters are at your ear height when seated.

My height speakers are placed on top of my bookshelf using the material linked below and it does a good job of isolating the speakers from the furniture.

https://www.amazon.in/YGM-Acoustic-...2&hvtargid=pla-849061055725&psc=1&ext_vrnc=hi

View attachment 66692


My Quad S2's on stands with foam isolators under them.

View attachment 66693

Acoustics foams on the bookshelf is fine but is there any specific reason for the same on the Stands ?


What is the distance from your Quad S2 to your listening position ?