Is AV Receiver good for Music ?

[mbhangui]

Don't remember if I've said this before.
If buying an AVR, do consider/audition BS from the same series or other brands too.
It will be cheaper and you may use the funds saved for a beefy sub.

Very sane advice. Most of us will not have a dedicated, large room for audio. A floorstander overwhelms a small room. To much bass makes the sound boomy. Also you cannot control bass alone (most avr don't have a knob for bass, treble). AVRs may have a wierd way to control the bass using the remote control (my Yamaha avr has but you have to press more than two buttons to reach that setting). A BS may not give you low extension oomph, but then it will not have to work hard to deliver music minus the bass. Add a subwoofer, which will do bass better than a floorstander and additionally you will have a volume control for bass alone. That way you can adjust the bass as per your taste.

I have floorstanders (two pairs) and in both my amp and avr, I have cut out the bass to the floorstanders. If I had not invested 3+ lacs in floorstanders, I could have utlized that dough for something else.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

To fish, you have to get into the water, no other way around. There is X3600H and Polk S10/20/35 available under the classified section. It will make a pretty decent system to start. Use it for a year or two, and you will get to know enough nitty-gritty before investing in an expensive system.

This will be a very good deal!

 

[SiR]

Don't remember if I've said this before.
If buying an AVR, do consider/audition BS from the same series or other brands too.
It will be cheaper and you may use the funds saved for a beefy sub.

Cheers,
Raghu

Yes I do remember Raghu, in fact I was into that setup initially

But few factors made me to go for Fs :
1. When I go for Bs, obviously I have to go for speaker stands and again spend for the same [ 10 to 15 ]

2. Placing the speakers in the living Room, with speaker stands and having children [ though grownup ] maneuvering around, might be bit bothersome

3. Fs, no need to invest on stands and they could take some space, where their presence would be easily felt by people around

 

[SiR]

Very sane advice. Most of us will not have a dedicated, large room for audio. A floorstander overwhelms a small room. To much bass makes the sound boomy. Also you cannot control bass alone (most avr don't have a knob for bass, treble). AVRs may have a wierd way to control the bass using the remote control (my Yamaha avr has but you have to press more than two buttons to reach that setting). A BS may not give you low extension oomph, but then it will not have to work hard to deliver music minus the bass. Add a subwoofer, which will do bass better than a floorstander and additionally you will have a volume control for bass alone. That way you can adjust the bass as per your taste.

I have floorstanders (two pairs) and in both my amp and avr, I have cut out the bass to the floorstanders. If I had not invested 3+ lacs in floorstanders, I could have utlized that dough for something else.

A floorstander overwhelms a small room

What is the size that is to be considered as "Small Room" for a floorstander ?

I have a Living Room W 21 X L 15, listening area 12' W X 15' L , is that a "Small Room "for a Fs or a right one for a Bs ?

my Yamaha avr has but you have to press more than two buttons to reach that setting

 

[mbhangui]

What is the size that is to be considered as "Small Room" for a floorstander ?

my music room is 18 x 12 and it gets overwhelmed. It could be because the (Polk Rti A9) floorstanders are trying hard to do LF and unable to do so. To fix this I will have to spend money on room treatment (which I did but didn't work). So what I have done is to not let LF into the polk floor standers and let the subwoofer to it. If I had purchased bookshelves, I could have saved money. In the same room, I have another pair of floorstanders - a pair of electrostatic speakers connected to a valve amp. This setup doesn't produce much bass like the polk and is two way speaker. This setup performs well but for bass I still have to use a subwoofer. So I think I would have been better of if I had purchased two pairs of bookshelves instead of two pair of floorstanders.

Here is a image of both speakers

I have a Living Room W 21 X L 15, listening area 12' W X 15' L , is that a "Small Room "for a Fs or a right one for a Bs ?

That is decent enough. From whatever I have read, anything below 300 sq ft is a small room.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

my music room is 18 x 12 and it gets overwhelmed. It could be because the (Polk Rti A9) floorstanders are trying hard to do LF and unable to do so. To fix this I will have to spend money on room treatment (which I did but didn't work). So what I have done is to not let LF into the polk floor standers and let the subwoofer to it. If I had purchased bookshelves, I could have saved money. In the same room, I have another pair of floorstanders - a pair of electrostatic speakers connected to a valve amp. This setup doesn't produce much bass like the polk and is two way speaker. This setup performs well but for bass I still have to use a subwoofer. So I think I would have been better of if I had purchased two pairs of bookshelves instead of two pair of floorstanders.

Here is a image of both speakers


That is decent enough. From whatever I have read, anything below 300 sq ft is a small room.

I am sure you might have tried this, but did you try positioning the speakers between the room and away from side walls?
This was a similar issue with a friends colleague, QA 3050i he had said where producing lot of bass and was not controllable.
He got him to my place and was shocked that my room did not have any of those issues with same songs, later he moved the speakers away from the side walls.

Speakers need breathing room around them, not only from behind but sides too.

 

[mbhangui]

I am sure you might have tried this, but did you try positioning the speakers between the room and away from side walls?
This was a similar issue with a friends colleague, QA 3050i he had said where producing lot of bass and was not controllable.
He got him to my place and was shocked that my room did not have any of those issues with same songs, later he moved the speakers away from the side walls.

Speakers need breathing room around them, not only from behind but sides too.

I have tried this, but it creates practical difficulty of viewing the TV comfortably. I have to decide if I can throw out the television out of this room and put a smaller tv or throw out the speakers and put smaller bookshelves. The other alternative is to convert this into guest room and convert my existing guest room to music room. But with this covid situation I'm not keen on letting anyone inside. I think the tv will have to go out one day. If I had done some rework before I purchased the flat, this problem wouldn't have arisen. The room has an attached bathroom which shortens the area. I should have demolished it.

 

[Donivlapog]

my music room is 18 x 12 and it gets overwhelmed. It could be because the (Polk Rti A9) floorstanders are trying hard to do LF and unable to do so. To fix this I will have to spend money on room treatment (which I did but didn't work). So what I have done is to not let LF into the polk floor standers and let the subwoofer to it. If I had purchased bookshelves, I could have saved money. In the same room, I have another pair of floorstanders - a pair of electrostatic speakers connected to a valve amp. This setup doesn't produce much bass like the polk and is two way speaker. This setup performs well but for bass I still have to use a subwoofer. So I think I would have been better of if I had purchased two pairs of bookshelves instead of two pair of floorstanders.

Here is a image of both speakers


That is decent enough. From whatever I have read, anything below 300 sq ft is a small room. View attachment 66539

I can imagine playing some heavy metals in the middle of the night waking all neighbours up!

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmm diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing doooooooooooo!!!!!

Whoa ho! One grumpy old man deserves a night midnight alarm awakening. Thanks for the inspiration. Or play some action movie with gunshots and helicopter flying and taking off. I love this message board!

 

[SiR]

my music room is 18 x 12 and it gets overwhelmed. It could be because the (Polk Rti A9) floorstanders are trying hard to do LF and unable to do so. To fix this I will have to spend money on room treatment (which I did but didn't work). So what I have done is to not let LF into the polk floor standers and let the subwoofer to it. If I had purchased bookshelves, I could have saved money. In the same room, I have another pair of floorstanders - a pair of electrostatic speakers connected to a valve amp. This setup doesn't produce much bass like the polk and is two way speaker. This setup performs well but for bass I still have to use a subwoofer. So I think I would have been better of if I had purchased two pairs of bookshelves instead of two pair of floorstanders.

Here is a image of both speakers


That is decent enough. From whatever I have read, anything below 300 sq ft is a small room. View attachment 66539

That is decent enough. From whatever I have read, anything below 300 sq ft is a small room.

Thanks for the response !!

I'm too concerned for the same issue,

If I go for FS, it should not be overwhelming or the FS should not be below expectation

It would be better to audition both if possible, in my living room, before I settle for one.
But how far that is practically possible, considering the present covid, ?!?!?

 

[raghupb]

<snip>

View attachment 66539

That's some serious stuff!!

I have a largish BS pair and a tiny puppy pair.
The puppies can't even whelm, let alone overwhelm Perfect for late night listening.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[mbhangui]

Thanks for the response !!

I'm too concerned for the same issue,

If I go for FS, it should not be overwhelming or the FS should not be below expectation

It would be better to audition both if possible, in my living room, before I settle for one.
But how far that is practically possible, considering the present covid, ?!?!?

We should ask for opinions. I have seen @Analogous who has moved from a floorstander to bookshelves. He also posted a article about subwoofers which made lot of logical sense that any speaker has to work hard when it does the full range. Especiall the low frequencies which need lot of power on demand and a woofer with sufficient diameter. The LF is best handled by a subwoofer. So my thought is why buy a floorstander when you will anyway use a subwoofer? What is your opinion on this @Analogous regarding floorstanders / bookshelves? Asking because you have experience with both in your own room and that experience counts more than listening to a setup in a showroom.

 

[mbhangui]

That's some serious stuff!!

I have a largish BS pair and a tiny puppy pair.
The puppies can't even whelm, let alone overwhelm Perfect for late night listening.

Some puppies too can growl when needed. Seriously some well designed bookshelves can give many floorstanders run for their money. But placement and room play a very important role. Yesterday when @amrutmhatre90 suggested to give the floorstanders breathing space, it got me thinking and I spent the better half of the day rearranging the speakers. Had to again make two pair of speaker cables. My back is breaking but out of two pairs of floorstanders, one pair is singing quite well. Surprisingly the cheaper speaker (the polk RTI is doing much better now). And they are doing very good for both music (stereo) as well as 7.1.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
If I go for FS, it should not be overwhelming or the FS should not be below expectation

It would be better to audition both if possible, in my living room, before I settle for one.
<snip>

Covid or not, getting a home demo is a stretch.

We should ask for opinions. I have seen @Analogous who has moved from a floorstander to bookshelves. He also posted a article about subwoofers which made lot of logical sense that any speaker has to work hard when it does the full range. Especiall the low frequencies which need lot of power on demand and a good subwoofer. The LF is best handled by a subwoofer. So my thought is why buy a floorstander when you will anyway use a subwoofer? What is your opinion on this @Analogous regarding floorstanders / bookshelves? Asking because you have experience with both in your own room and that experience counts more than listening to a setup in a showroom.

I do believe in this approach if setting up an AVR + sub.
FS are nice if it is just a stereo setup without sub.
AVR will anyways allow for all kind of crossover settings.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[raghupb]

Some puppies too can growl when needed. Seriously some well designed bookshelves can give many floorstanders run for their money. But placement and room play a very important role. Yesterday when @amrutmhatre90 suggested to give the floorstanders breathing space, it got me thinking and I spent the better half of the day rearranging the speakers. Had to again make two pair of speaker cables. My back is breaking but out of two pairs of floorstanders, one pair is singing quite well. Surprisingly the cheaper speaker (the polk RTI is doing much better now). And they are doing very good for both music (stereo) as well as 7.1.

Position plays a huge role. It can make or break the sound.
FS in tight spaces will inevitably excite the room and become boomy.
BS may be more forgiving and adaptable.

@SiR
I think in your listening space, side wall reflections may be mitigated due to layout.
One side hallway, other side utility/balcony. Properly positioning may reduce side wall effect to a great extent.
Put the sub behind right speaker and throw the sound into long corner. And AVR will also chip in.
I have said this earlier. Look at BS too while auditioning.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I spent the better half of the day rearranging the speakers. Had to again make two pair of speaker cables. My back is breaking but out of two pairs of floorstanders, one pair is singing quite well. Surprisingly the cheaper speaker (the polk RTI is doing much better now). And they are doing very good for both music (stereo) as well as 7.1.

Thank you for taking comment positively and made the efforts to rearrange everything. Glad made a difference and you are enjoying it.
Some simple tweaks are headache to do, but rewards are impressive.

Position plays a huge role. It can make or break the sound.
FS in tight spaces will inevitably excite the room and become boomy.
BS may be more forgiving and adaptable.

Cheers,
Raghu

Most important aspect, which is often neglected and people go for aesthetic than the real benefits.

 

[mbhangui]

Thank you for taking comment positively and made the efforts to rearrange everything. Glad made a difference and you are enjoying it.
Some simple tweaks are headache to do, but rewards are impressive.

Another funny thing is the better music is being produced using my Yamaha AVR with the polks. Music is sounding so good in Pure Direct mode as well as 7.1 Yamaha's cinema dsp mode. My wife didn't know that what was done but today night when she heard few songs playing, she exclaimed that it is sounding very life like. Tomorrow I will do a long listening session with my valve amp and the other speaker. Just want to rule out confirmation bias and psychoacoustic effect. But to answer the OP's original question, AVRs can sound good too.

I just got reminded of an incident of Oct last year. My avr went kaput and it would go into protection mode in few minutes. I studied the circuit and took help from eevblog forum. Ultimately I repaired it myself, but for almost 3 weeks I had to use my IA connected to my TV for watching movies on Netflix, Prime, etc. It sounded crap. Even the sound that comes when Netflix app starts up lacks the punch that 7.1 sound gives. It was then I realized the importance of AVR. An AVR can do HT duties excellent and stereo duties satisfactorily. But an IA cannot replace an avr for movies. And I'm more of a music listening guy than a movie watching guy.

 

[k-pad]

So, those of you who think 5.0 plus AVR with tower speakers is better than an AVR plus 5.1 with bookshelves or satellite speakers pls respond with your pov.

Hi sir,
For TV, and only TV, satellites + good subwoofer, with decent AVR is a great middle-ground, please-all solution.

To add one input in the context of the thread (and also what you told me about not having buyer's remorse), the only thing I would have done differently if somebody yanked me back six months, would have been to have bought a cheaper fresh boxed 3600 (was available in Oct) instead of the price-hopping 3700. But no regrets.

 

[k-pad]

So, Audyssey is better !?!!!

Sir, this is another rabbit hole.
But, to limit my answer, Audyssey at least tries, and from XT32 onwards I do discern good work going on behind the console. Only this much I can vouch for, having played around with lower versions and owned the XT32 (with app)

There are many who swear by Dirac, and of course there is the very cumbersome REW which is free and fully DIY.

 

[k-pad]

Yes I do remember Raghu, in fact I was into that setup initially

But few factors made me to go for Fs :
1. When I go for Bs, obviously I have to go for speaker stands and again spend for the same [ 10 to 15 ]

2. Placing the speakers in the living Room, with speaker stands and having children [ though grownup ] maneuvering around, might be bit bothersome

3. Fs, no need to invest on stands and they could take some space, where their presence would be easily felt by people around

Boxy on-walls, if you are not fussed

 

[k-pad]

What is the size that is to be considered as "Small Room" for a floorstander ?

I have a Living Room W 21 X L 15, listening area 12' W X 15' L , is that a "Small Room "for a Fs or a right one for a Bs ?

Don't go by listening area, give the bass a long enough rope to hang itself with (kidding)
It's a great sized room for a floorstander.
In fact, less punchy BS/satellites will struggle in your room.