LG vs Sony OLEDs

[Love4sound]

50 is the value got from slides. It has raised blacks in some dark scenes. That is the problem. You dont have a CX and think it is flawless, what can I do for that?

I didn't say that. But you are very sure for that scene it has to be deep black just cause it is so in the sony A8h. So i was just pointing out the obvious that A8h is not reference display for checking black levels. You don't have to do anything for what i think or what i say. Don't like what i say please feel free to ignore. Continue using A8h as reference display and calibrate your CX

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

Okay. For HDR the display is set to limited YCbCr to avoid mismatch with full RGB. Then blacker than black shouldn’t make a difference. It will appear as black on our OLEDs.

I had floating blacks on both E6 and C7. LG fixed it in a few months of releasing the models.

 

[BLASTO]

Not all dark scenes are meant to be black. Only way you will know if it’s supposed to be black is play the scene in a reference monitor. But in this case yeah the cx is increasing black levels cause even in c9 it’s not this bad and has good black levels at that scene. Can you test this video and see how the black levels are in both Sony and cx.

This video also has raised blacks at 50 brightness. But not along full screen but as 2 blotches one each to right and left. Will post picture if Iam able to capture.


Edit: Picture below. This is around 0:05 close up towards the right. It is not affecting full screen like in previous images but a part which is hitting the near black to bring out this bug.

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

@BLASTO as you mentioned, CX may take a while to mature. Interesting to note that the 2020 OLED panels are tweaked a bit (to support a cleaner BFI?). Maybe that’s why differences in 2019 and 2020 models.

What I mentioned is all speculation. I don’t have professional equipments prove it.

You are lucky to have 2 OLEDs. Enjoy both

 

[BLASTO]

I didn't say that. But you are very sure for that scene it has to be deep black just cause it is so in the sony A8h. So i was just pointing out the obvious that A8h is not reference display for checking black levels. You don't have to do anything for what i think or what i say. Don't like what i say please feel free to ignore. Continue using A8h as reference display and calibrate your CX

And what I am saying is, we have 2 different tvs.
If I post something and you don't see it in your tv, don't assume it is settings issue. It is a different tv model with potentially evolving firmware.

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

Robert Zohn from Value Electronics conducted a CX and A8H comparison recently. They too mentioned the raised blacks on CX.

This video is from a YouTuber who attended the event.

 

[Love4sound]

And what I am saying is, we have 2 different tvs.
If I post something and you don't see it in your tv, don't assume it is settings issue. It is a different tv model with potentially evolving firmware.

I am not assuming anything here. You said in sony it is deep black and i just said A8h is not the reference display to judge blacks and i don't see anything wrong with what i said.

 

[BLASTO]

I am not assuming anything here. You said in sony it is deep black and i just said A8h is not the reference display to judge blacks and i don't see anything wrong with what i said.

OLEDs can produce 0 blacks, no argument here. I am talking about a bug here. Hopefully below pics demonstrates. it is from the demo you shared. At 0:05.

Brightness 50:


Brightness 48:


As you can see, 48 just does not subdue the issue reducing the brightness, it is just not present in 48.
Also sony does produce deep blacks and shadow details at the same time between the 2 tvs I have. I am not underemining the LG but fact is a fact. Infact, I am the one who posted lowest prices and enabled people to buy.. What do I get to bash an LG?

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

But I would still say that the panels would need to be calibrated by a professional or you can use DIY otherwise it all depends on the user settings. In my view the LGs are little harder to setup as there are a lot of settings under the expert settings.

In the Rtings comparison they said that for movies the sony is a little better and both are pretty close in PQ.

You are right. Having both LG and Sony, LG OLEDs are a bit tricky to get it right especially in the absence of professional equipments. Sony (I’ve experienced A9G and A8H) are much easier with A8H being frustratingly “correct” out of the box in Custom mode. You can’t play around much without calibration tools.

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

Btw, folks did you watch the latest Mandalorian “The Jedi” episode? It is bit murky as usual but cinematic in DV. Watch it in dark room.

 

[Love4sound]

OLEDs can produce 0 blacks, no argument here. I am talking about a bug here. Hopefully below pics demonstrates. it is from the demo you shared. At 0:05.

Brightness 50:
View attachment 52434

Brightness 48:
View attachment 52435

As you can see, 48 just does not subdue the issue reducing the brightness, it is just not present in 48.
Also sony does produce deep blacks and shadow details at the same time between the 2 tvs I have. I am not underemining the LG but fact is a fact. Infact, I am the one who posted lowest prices and enabled people to buy.. What do I get to bash an LG?

I clearly said the same looking at your other image that black levels are raised. I really don't care if you or others bash LG as well. I am not going to get anything by proving LG is better. Let every one buy sony, like i care.You totally missed the point i was trying to make. The scene you shared i didn't think its deep black.Other FM also confirmed it by using a software in his PC. Just cause it was deep black in sony doesnt mean it was what the content creator intended us to see. You can never know what the actual black level is unless you see it in a reference display is what i was trying to tell you. For all i know the sony itself is crushing blacks in that scene and that is why it is deep black or the scene is actually black and me and the other fm who measured it are wrong.

 

[BLASTO]

I clearly said the same looking at your other image that black levels are raised. I really don't care if you or others bash LG as well. I am not going to get anything by proving LG is better. Let every one buy sony, like i care.You totally missed the point i was trying to make. The scene you shared i didn't think its deep black.Other FM also confirmed it by using a software in his PC. Just cause it was deep black in sony doesnt mean it was what the content creator intended us to see. You can never know what the actual black level is unless you see it in a reference display is what i was trying to tell you. For all i know the sony itself is crushing blacks in that scene and that is why it is deep black or the scene is actually black and me and the other fm who measured it are wrong.

If you think the pics I posted are what the director intended, there is more to explain. In fact I will be happy if it does not happen in a C9 because hopefully it will be fixed in future.

 

[BLASTO]

The scene you shared i didn't think its deep black.Other FM also confirmed it by using a software in his PC. Just cause it was deep black in sony doesnt mean it was what the content creator intended us to see.

It is the sony demo to demonstrate black. Sony is the content creator and would know how it will appear in their tvs, dont you think?
It is not pitch black, but what colour do you want me to tell? It looks correct in sony tv and LG with 48 brightness. Brightness 50 raises blacks, that's all to it.

 

[Love4sound]

It is the sony demo to demonstrate black. Sony is the content creator and would know how it will appear in their tvs, dont you think?
It is not pitch black, but what colour do you want me to tell? It looks correct in sony tv and LG with 48 brightness. Brightness 50 raises blacks, that's all to it.

You said deep black which means complete black. But the other fm checked in his PC using measuring software and confirmed it is not deep black. In my c9 also it was black enough but not the deep black. So which is correct well I don’t know. I don’t have a reference monitor to confirm this. The closest to verification by the right method was done by the other FM

 

[lightgamer]

It is the sony demo to demonstrate black. Sony is the content creator and would know how it will appear in their tvs, dont you think?
It is not pitch black, but what colour do you want me to tell? It looks correct in sony tv and LG with 48 brightness. Brightness 50 raises blacks, that's all to it.

Uh, not really. Just because Sony made the demo doesn't mean all Sony TV's will display it accurately. And even among one set (say A8H), every unit will have slight differences due to manufacturing tolerances. That's why 48 brightness on your LG CX will not map exactly to 48 on another set.

The only way to ensure that the image is exactly as intended is to factory calibrate each individual panel and have custom firmware to take into account ageing and so on... A 32" OLED Sony reference monitor costs around $30k.

Anyway, I have a much easier test for each of you to do to make it crystal clear what your TV's are doing. I used to do vector art as a hobby so making such test slides is very easy for me. The attached image is pure black with 5 squares on it having the values (#010101, #020202, #050505, #0A0A0A and #0f0f0f), so slightly increasing but very dark greys. Basically, first two grey squares are the exact same as the one on the Sony glass demo depending on how far from the corner you looked.

Please view it fullscreen on your TV and let me know what happens. That will make it clear which TV is accurate.

 

[buxx]

The Sony TVs have Calman Support. Can that be used to calibrate the display by a professional remotely?

Or even through the Marantz AVR which support remote calibration..

So one COULD hypothetically get their setup calibrated professionally?

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

The Sony TVs have Calman Support. Can that be used to calibrate the display by a professional remotely?

Or even through the Marantz AVR which support remote calibration..

So one COULD hypothetically get their setup calibrated professionally?

Don’t we need a meter, pattern generator?
I haven’t read about remote calibration for Sony OLED.

Does anyone on our forum have these tools?

 

[lightgamer]

The Sony TVs have Calman Support. Can that be used to calibrate the display by a professional remotely?

Or even through the Marantz AVR which support remote calibration..

So one COULD hypothetically get their setup calibrated professionally?

Technically yes, but you would need a colourimeter to attach where the TV is. You can't calibrate a display with software alone as you also need a measurement of what the TV is outputting from the hardware.

What he can do is guide you through the calibration.

 

[buxx]

Yes, I think that's the minimums requirement. I rber people getting some sort of a calorimeter a few year back..to calibrate their PC monitors .. forgetting what was it..

Edit: remembered, Spyder..

 

[shaiju_o_thomas]

I’ve been watching The Mandalorian season 2 both in SDR and HDR.
Disney+ app from iPad Pro and Sony inbuilt app.

In 1080p SDR, there is less flashing near blacks on LG. It is like Sony is struggling a bit to keep up with low bit content. LG is better in such scenario

In 4K SDR, the image is more clean on Sony with more shadow details and rich colours even in darker areas.

In 4K HDR, the Sony bit more stable with consistent picture whereas the LG, though brighter, can appear a tad brighter or dim in the same show. It is like LG’s priority is brighter highlights (so perceptually sharper and missing dark details) whereas Sony is favours consistently flattens the image. Sony, it looks like, has more colour volume (in HDR via Panasonic UB820 - Skyfall, Blade Runner 2049, Interstellar).

I’ve had the LG for 2.5 years and never felt anything missing and it is not. So it is only in a direct comparison where you see these minor differences.

LG dazzles. Sony is cinematic.