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lyrita phono

Rega

arunkvivek

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Yup, long time lyrita phono user. What do you want to know?

Wow, a Lyrita user in Bangalore!!!! (I am a newbie to the forum). I would love to hear Lyrita gear some day. Please let me know if you have some spare time in future that you can waste on letting me audition them.:D
 

soundbuff

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This is useful Stevieboy. Saw your equipment list, my tastes are somewhat similar; lowish powered push pull and medium sensitivity horns. How is your your phono stage performing. Will send you a PM asking for more details.
Thanks.
 

soundbuff

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Fair Enough!
How's your experience of the Phono stage been in terms of 'transient response'. I find it to be sluggish in terms of attack and a little soft in higher frequency extension, in comparison to my SS unit. I was just wondering if this is a feature common to tube phonos in general, since I have not heard any other pure tube unit, or is it peculiar to the Lyrita. The popular Projects are hybrids.
 

Rajiv

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Hi,

I am a long time Lyrita phono stage user.

How's your experience of the Phono stage been in terms of 'transient response'. I find it to be sluggish in terms of attack and a little soft in higher frequency extension, in comparison to my SS unit. I was just wondering if this is a feature common to tube phonos in general, since I have not heard any other pure tube unit, or is it peculiar to the Lyrita. The popular Projects are hybrids.

I have no problem with its "transient response" it is up there with the best.

lyrita

Regards
Rajiv
 

soundbuff

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Hi Rajiv,
Thanks for getting back.
I suppose experiences and impressions will vary: one persons 'sluggish' may be a 'relaxed presentation' for another. I listen mostly to classical western and Jazz, and find for instance, that a sharp violin attack lacks the 'bite', and there is an overall lack of tautness in presentation.
Perchance should you ever get to compare it with another tube unit, it would be nice to know what you think. I have not had that chance, and was wondering if this was an inherent feature of tubes, a necessary choice between being 'edgy' and 'aggressive' (SS) and 'soft-focused' perhaps.

Best
 

stevieboy

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Hi Arun,

Would love to catch up with you. pm me your number and when I'm ready will let you know. As of now the record player still isn't set up in my new place. Will take a couple months.

As far as transient response goes I don't consider myself an audiophile anymore. I just go by what moves me and what brings out the soul of the performance rather than typical hi-fi terms. I've realised these are not my cup of tea or the way I listen to music so I've stopped. To give you an example, I once heard a well reputed solid state phonostage in my system and compared the same track and the solid state definitely had more detail coming through but here's the deal for me. The track was Smoke on the Water and my phono in comparison captured the BAM BAM BAM of the heavy intro power chords far better. Now consider the guitarist's intent in that song playing power chords that way instead of regular chords, you'll find a video online also where he plays the difference and explains the sound he was going after. So one side you have definite 'hi-fi' plus, the other side you have musical intent being captured. Me I want musical intent. So basically I've stopped trying to hear for hi-fi stuff and just listen for does this capture the band's/performer's musical intent. So I really can't answer your question about transient response cos frankly I don't care about stuff like that anymore. :)

Viren makes a different phonostage now, I have the older one with ECC83/12AX7 tubes. Even with different tubes the emotion differs. eg I love Mullards best for emotion they just seem to get things right, telefunkens are more linear but colder they just don't 'move' me when I'm listening although someone who appreciates detail and other stuff might love these tubes.

For me solid state just sounds 'hard' even though I can hear what others love about it, while the right tubes are liquid heart melting soulfulness.

Regards
 

jls001

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I once tried a friend's Lyrita phono stage in my setup. Found that it did one thing better than my two silicon state phono stages - bigger sound stage width. On most other parameters they were head to head. And no, it doesn't sound "tubey" in any way, if that's what anyone's looking for. And I say that in the most positive way. I didn't find it rolled off at the frequency extremes.
 

arunkvivek

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Hi Arun,

The track was Smoke on the Water and my phono in comparison captured the BAM BAM BAM of the heavy intro power chords far better. Now consider the guitarist's intent in that song playing power chords that way instead of regular chords, you'll find a video online also where he plays the difference and explains the sound he was going after. So one side you have definite 'hi-fi' plus, the other side you have musical intent being captured. Me I want musical intent. So basically I've stopped trying to hear for hi-fi stuff and just listen for does this capture the band's/performer's musical intent.

That's an interesting viewpoint! In the few auditions that I have been so far, I have always been confused between going for musical setup or a neutral one. Point of contemplation is whether my brain in unlearning sounds and learning music or brain having withdrawal symptoms for old music. Grey Matter indeed!
 

viren bakhshi

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Hi,

I have always been confused between going for musical setup or a neutral one

What's the confusion about? If a system reproduces music as music, with instruments sounding as they should, with their full tonal colours; in other words, "as musical" sounds, isn't that closer to the truth?

What is "neutral" in a music setup? It either sounds as the real thing, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it ain't playing music!

Viren
 

arunkvivek

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Hi,

What is "neutral" in a music setup? It either sounds as the real thing, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it ain't playing music!

Viren

I love a copy of Ilayaraja hits (recorded from tape to ACD). I turn the music on in the night and go to sleep listening to songs (gear: Philips powerhouse and a Philips speaker without a model number; source : PC's RCA output). It is a collection of soothing melodies. I used this CD for my first audition. Mukeshji (Music Ranch) played the CD on his CDP (Denon I think) and used Tannoy Mercury speakers. The CD was horrible to listen too. Too Shrill. The player was neutral, showing out the poor quality of the recording.

If a device could make this CD sound as close to musical as the original songs, should we welcome it? It is a choice but, a huge dilemma is involved.
 

raghupb

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I love a copy of Ilayaraja hits (recorded from tape to ACD). I turn the music on in the night and go to sleep listening to songs (gear: Philips powerhouse and a Philips speaker without a model number; source : PC's RCA output). It is a collection of soothing melodies. I used this CD for my first audition. Mukeshji (Music Ranch) played the CD on his CDP (Denon I think) and used Tannoy Mercury speakers. The CD was horrible to listen too. Too Shrill. The player was neutral, showing out the poor quality of the recording.

If a device could make this CD sound as close to musical as the original songs, should we welcome it? It is a choice but, a huge dilemma is involved.

Your current system was like your best friend at school. The system during audition was like the principal. There are no Swiss in music reproduction.
A "perfectly designed/integrated system" will try to reproduce music content as truly as possible. There is no perfect system as we humans are not built to spec.
Almost all of the time we only listen to recorded music. So we need an original recording or something as close to it.

On a side note about 15 years ago, I was sitting in an outdoor cafe in New Orleans and a guy on the sidewalk was playing the saxophone for himself. He wasn't even interested in an audience.
If I had recorded it, mastered it and played it back to him, his reply probably would have been "Nice recording, you keep it. I have the real thing."

Now LPs get you as close to the original sound as possible. Many CDs/digital music these days are abused with too much digital tinkering for FM/IPOD/Spotify etc, etc. There is still hope though.
Whether you go TT/tubes route or digital/SS route, the rabbit hole is deep. How deep it goes, well get adventurous and find out :)

We on the forum will cheer you, guide you and sometimes get critical about each other, rarely with you.

Cheers,
Raghu
 

arunkvivek

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Your current system was like your best friend at school. The system during audition was like the principal. There are no Swiss in music reproduction.
The principal during audition has driven the point. Ignorance was truly a bliss.

Now LPs get you as close to the original sound as possible. Many CDs/digital music these days are abused with too much digital tinkering for FM/IPOD/Spotify etc, etc. There is still hope though.
Whether you go TT/tubes route or digital/SS route, the rabbit hole is deep. How deep it goes, well get adventurous and find out :)

We on the forum will cheer you, guide you and sometimes get critical about each other, rarely with you.

Cheers,
Raghu

This is what I love about the forum. The information overload is bedazzling but love the guidance/ nudges from the senior FMs like you. I have never imagined in my life about interacting with a designer like Viren. Now, that is really COOL.
 

Fantastic

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jmascreen : Whatever you audition , do it carefully . Most cartridges we get now seem to work best with a capacitance loading of about 100 to 250pF specified by the manufacturer.
In your system you have the connector capacitance, interconnect capacitance and the inherent capacitance of the phono preamp input ( excluding any added capacitance there ) plus tone arm internal cable capacitance . This can be quite high ! This could be 5pF+120pF+60pF+20pF = 205pF already ! With opamp based preamps this would be lower.
If you have too much capacitance you can loose HF. So your interconnect better be a very low capacitance type ....or very short ! Typically the average coaxial cable is about 120pF per meter , RG58 is about 100pF per meter and RG59 is about 68 pF per meter.
Belden 1694 ( available with Blue Jeans) is about 50pF per meter .
The aim should always be to have as low a ( inherent) system capacitance as possible then add externally to get what you want. Sometimes it might even mean removing or changing any pre installed capacitor at the input of the preamp!
 

jls001

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The above is very true (for MMs).

Many poor sounding cartridges and/or phono stages are often because sufficient care is not taken to match the capacitance loading in the phono preamp.

Equally important is impedance matching for both MM and MC. It's a good idea to not blindly trust the recommended impedance load value. For example some MM cartridges sound better at 33 kohms, while some sound best at 62kohms, and not at the recommended 47K.
 

souravin

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The above is very true (for MMs).

Many poor sounding cartridges and/or phono stages are often because sufficient care is not taken to match the capacitance loading in the phono preamp.

Equally important is impedance matching for both MM and MC. It's a good idea to not blindly trust the recommended impedance load value. For example some MM cartridges sound better at 33 kohms, while some sound best at 62kohms, and not at the recommended 47K.

An off topic question. I use Shure M 97Xe and M 44-7 with CNC phono stage at 47K impedance load. Does it sound better at 62K? Or this is a question of personal choice. Am asking this question as my rig is not so revealing and curiosity is chipping in.

Thanks,
Sourav
 
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