My new music PC
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rikhav
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Just my thought Sid
As of now the weather is cooler plus the machine is new so no dust build up on fans and heats ink so they will perform well
You very well know the summer of Hyderabad and to that lesser performing fan and Heatsink
IMO you will need at least one intake and one exhaust fan to keep the temps in control
I am not sure what size fans does the cabinet support but you can opt for larger fans which have lower rpm. So it will cool well and make less noise
If not that best is to keep the case open but I guess it won't work aesthetically and for safety reasons as well
Nice and good Initiative Sidvee, as discussed earlier it is quiet as a mouse right!!!
Yes absolutely. I have to put my ear to close to the unit to hear anything, whereas I could hear my laptop about 6 feet away.
Cheers,
Sid
And that is my concern as well Rikhav. Talked to rud3dawg - will be installing some software to monitor internal heat, meanwhile he is checking out options of adding perhaps another silent fan. Though according to him, per my listening habits of about 2 hour sessions continuously at most, he feels I should be ok as is. Hope so - because the silence is really a bliss right now
Cheers,
Sid
ranjeetrain
New Member
Sid, you should be fine if you really only be using this for music only. The processor won't heat up that much. Specially if the box is kept in a ventilated space.
But if you also plan to watch movies etc, I would recommend you let the fan remain there. I have a burnt CPU lying in my cupboard for the same reason. I though taking out the fan was harmless. And it indeed it was (for about two weeks, before the processor died).
Congrats on your new purchase .... thats some serious specs for a PC but may be underutilised as a music PC. Incidentally, I would have gone in the opposite direction as you for my choice of music PC and ended up with a cheapo netbook. Use it on battery and recharge it when not using. They are not very performance oriented, which means they are generally very cool and noise free and ideal as a music PC. Upgrading it with an SSD and serving the music files from a server would make it extremely silent and ideal. For your setup, there are somehings you can try if noise is still an issue
1) I am not a windows guy but if you can find a utility, with it restrict the CPU frequency to the lowest value which can easily decode the flacs. My old P3 800 MHz could comfortably decode 16/44.1 flacs fifteen years back, so 1 Ghz should suffice. If you can go lower, even better. However, this would mean CD ripping will be slower but that generally is less frequent job.
2) If you are going to use it as a music PC, I would recommend switching over to Windows XP. I don't think you will use any resource hungry services from Win 7. There might be a problem with software compatibility but if your media software runs on XP and you can get drivers for XP, moving to XP would definitely give you gains.
3) Strip all the unused hardware out. for e.g. if you have 8G ram in multiple dimms, I would restrict myself to single dimm. 2G should suffice. I have 8G ram in my office laptop and I still can't go above 3G even though I have used outlook/lotus notes, office and IE together. Unused hardware still take power so no point in keeping it if you ar enot using it. Check BIOS to see ifyou can disable unused integrated hardware.
I agree all the steps above might be regressive, especially for a new PC but it may help you reduce the fan and power supply noise. If Still unhappy, you can try a network based approach, but that would be another story. Don't take fans out as it may lead to overheating of the system including the disks and shorten their life or corrupt data on them.
1) I am not a windows guy but if you can find a utility, with it restrict the CPU frequency to the lowest value which can easily decode the flacs. My old P3 800 MHz could comfortably decode 16/44.1 flacs fifteen years back, so 1 Ghz should suffice. If you can go lower, even better. However, this would mean CD ripping will be slower but that generally is less frequent job.
2) If you are going to use it as a music PC, I would recommend switching over to Windows XP. I don't think you will use any resource hungry services from Win 7. There might be a problem with software compatibility but if your media software runs on XP and you can get drivers for XP, moving to XP would definitely give you gains.
3) Strip all the unused hardware out. for e.g. if you have 8G ram in multiple dimms, I would restrict myself to single dimm. 2G should suffice. I have 8G ram in my office laptop and I still can't go above 3G even though I have used outlook/lotus notes, office and IE together. Unused hardware still take power so no point in keeping it if you ar enot using it. Check BIOS to see ifyou can disable unused integrated hardware.
I agree all the steps above might be regressive, especially for a new PC but it may help you reduce the fan and power supply noise. If Still unhappy, you can try a network based approach, but that would be another story. Don't take fans out as it may lead to overheating of the system including the disks and shorten their life or corrupt data on them.
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Congrats on going the Music PC way, Sidvee!
I have a couple of things to say, but please don't take these as post-fact criticisms or buzz-kill. These are based mostly on my reading and a bit on my own Music PC adventures. I'm completely open to be corrected.
1) I think rud3dawg mentioned that a WD AVGP hard disk was used. From what I've read, these disks are not really suited for error-free playback. They are designed to be used continuously for recording video in applications such as security camera monitoring and DVRs. They do not have any error-correction. Details. A discussion on avsforum
I don't think this disk is at all suited for Music PC use. A regular WD EARS (Green) HDD would be fine.
2) Using a low-power processor & motherboard (or combo) would have helped keep the setup completely silent by going completely fanless. The processor wouldn't need a fan. And if a reasonably airy cabinet is used (the current cabinet is good enough for this), a cabinet fan could also have been avoided. In addition, a PICO PSU could have been used, thereby eliminating a fan on the PSU end also. The power brick would sit outside the case, to boot. Furthermore, I think an i5 processor is really overkill for Music PC duty. But I do know that very experienced members like BHAGWAN use dual boxes with i5 processors to run a JPlay setup.
I run JRiverMC on a very low-power setup (AMD Fusion E350 -- Asus E350 M1-M fanless board, 4GB Corsair RAM, OCZ 64GB SSD, WD Green 3TB, Silverstone SMPS & Cab, Lian-li Fan controller, Lenovo Multimedia KB+Mouse). If I'd known enough before I built the setup, I'd have gone fully fanless (no cabinet fans either), and used a PICO PSU.
In your current setup, with a cabinet like that (looks like a CM Elite 120), I think airflow should not be a problem with a mini-ITX board. PSU-wise, there are SMPS units from Silverstone that are fanless. Depending on availability of height/clearance, there are fanless heatsinks from Scythe (and other vendors, including Silverstone) that will do the job at 0dB. This would leave the HDD as the only moving part in the setup.
Keeping everything the same, if you could replace your current front cabinet fan with a 120mm fan from Noctua with a low dB rating, I think the required airflow and need for silence should be taken care of. If the fan is still noisy for your room, you can always tame it with a fan controller, which will help you dial down the rpms (at the cost of airflow).
EDIT: Looking at the pics posted, there is definitely enough room for a serious fanless heatsink.
I have a couple of things to say, but please don't take these as post-fact criticisms or buzz-kill. These are based mostly on my reading and a bit on my own Music PC adventures. I'm completely open to be corrected.
1) I think rud3dawg mentioned that a WD AVGP hard disk was used. From what I've read, these disks are not really suited for error-free playback. They are designed to be used continuously for recording video in applications such as security camera monitoring and DVRs. They do not have any error-correction. Details. A discussion on avsforum
I don't think this disk is at all suited for Music PC use. A regular WD EARS (Green) HDD would be fine.
2) Using a low-power processor & motherboard (or combo) would have helped keep the setup completely silent by going completely fanless. The processor wouldn't need a fan. And if a reasonably airy cabinet is used (the current cabinet is good enough for this), a cabinet fan could also have been avoided. In addition, a PICO PSU could have been used, thereby eliminating a fan on the PSU end also. The power brick would sit outside the case, to boot. Furthermore, I think an i5 processor is really overkill for Music PC duty. But I do know that very experienced members like BHAGWAN use dual boxes with i5 processors to run a JPlay setup.
I run JRiverMC on a very low-power setup (AMD Fusion E350 -- Asus E350 M1-M fanless board, 4GB Corsair RAM, OCZ 64GB SSD, WD Green 3TB, Silverstone SMPS & Cab, Lian-li Fan controller, Lenovo Multimedia KB+Mouse). If I'd known enough before I built the setup, I'd have gone fully fanless (no cabinet fans either), and used a PICO PSU.
In your current setup, with a cabinet like that (looks like a CM Elite 120), I think airflow should not be a problem with a mini-ITX board. PSU-wise, there are SMPS units from Silverstone that are fanless. Depending on availability of height/clearance, there are fanless heatsinks from Scythe (and other vendors, including Silverstone) that will do the job at 0dB. This would leave the HDD as the only moving part in the setup.
Keeping everything the same, if you could replace your current front cabinet fan with a 120mm fan from Noctua with a low dB rating, I think the required airflow and need for silence should be taken care of. If the fan is still noisy for your room, you can always tame it with a fan controller, which will help you dial down the rpms (at the cost of airflow).
EDIT: Looking at the pics posted, there is definitely enough room for a serious fanless heatsink.
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rikhav
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I think the best way to restrict cpu frequency is to under clock it by the bios utility. Maybe the voltage thus can also be lowered
This will result in lesser heat and lesser heat means cpu cooler working at lower rpm
Someone needs to confirm that this can be done
This will result in lesser heat and lesser heat means cpu cooler working at lower rpm
Someone needs to confirm that this can be done
Thanks FM's for posting your thoughts. @mowgli80 I started my PC music journey with a netbook running XP. At the risk of getting into a technical debate on how little processing power music uses etc., I feel that where I am now, I am getting the best SQ possible for the money spent. Sonically, this setup is significantly ahead of my netbook setup (which I still use albeit ocassionally in a third setup). Perhaps it is overkill, but then so is having an amplifier with the capability of producing 1200 watts per channel into 1 ohm loads :lol:. However for whatever reason (and I can think of many) the amp. also sounds significantly better than my previous lower powered design, though I am not using its full capabilities.
Secondly perhaps there is a misconception that my current setup is noisy (perhaps due to my own miscommunication). On the contrary it is silent enough with the side fan engaged that I do not hear it from my listening position 8' away and that is when music is paused. Once this side fan is disengaged this pc is so silent that I have to come close to hear any noise. As I stated earlier I will monitor the internal temperature and take appropriate action down the road. Also considering the fact that my listening sessions last at most 2 hours and I have my ac running to keep my listening room at 26 deg. C, I may be ok except maybe summer - but then I am worried about all my equipment in Hyderabad summers, so much so that my main system is turned off entirely for 2 months and I use a secondary system.
@Hydra - regarding the hard disk, honestly I have no clue perhaps rud3dawg can answer that better. And that is the beauty of this design - if I feel that some component is letting me down all I have to do is swap it out, something I cannot do with a laptop. Regarding more silent fans he is looking into some for further improvements.
In summary I would like to state that with this current build I am getting sound quality in spades which I would not have believed possible and this setup is handily surpassing my previous Ayon Cd2s disc based setup.
Cheers,
Sid
Secondly perhaps there is a misconception that my current setup is noisy (perhaps due to my own miscommunication). On the contrary it is silent enough with the side fan engaged that I do not hear it from my listening position 8' away and that is when music is paused. Once this side fan is disengaged this pc is so silent that I have to come close to hear any noise. As I stated earlier I will monitor the internal temperature and take appropriate action down the road. Also considering the fact that my listening sessions last at most 2 hours and I have my ac running to keep my listening room at 26 deg. C, I may be ok except maybe summer - but then I am worried about all my equipment in Hyderabad summers, so much so that my main system is turned off entirely for 2 months and I use a secondary system.
@Hydra - regarding the hard disk, honestly I have no clue perhaps rud3dawg can answer that better. And that is the beauty of this design - if I feel that some component is letting me down all I have to do is swap it out, something I cannot do with a laptop. Regarding more silent fans he is looking into some for further improvements.
In summary I would like to state that with this current build I am getting sound quality in spades which I would not have believed possible and this setup is handily surpassing my previous Ayon Cd2s disc based setup.
Cheers,
Sid
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..... The PC is pretty Silent as Sidvee has mentioned . As a matter of fact as he says there is no noise emanating even when you sit and listen attentively couple of feet away. Nothing else to it but to eliminate Electro magnetic induced disturbance.... and about the WD AVGP I dont think I said AV'GP' and am sorry if I misled you in any ways I said AV which is still a xxxxxxxxxxEARS model Hydra . (Personally I would prefer xxxxxxxxEARX which I already am using and quite contented with)
I also agree with Sidvee when he says the sound quality is better in comparison to his previous sources because of better quality components used eg USB chipset/Northbridge etc
@Hydra: The front Case fan HAS been replaced my friend with an Antec fan with Noise level of 8.9 db as it's switch will be at half speed(Theoretically From the Fan Specs).
A complete Fan-less solution can be adopted (I feel) if there was decent airflow but looking where the Case is being placed I would still prefer otherwise to a considerable extent. Since this fan supported solution is surprisingly silent, there should be no issues there..
Using a low end proc for music with a collection of over 700 gigs to 1 TB or more can only make it slower after few days especially when the albums are accessed amidst playtime, So contrary to the Overkill statement I am sure we went the right way considering we can connect the HD projector to browse thru the files if need be. I am sure some of you will agree to this kind of scenario being seamless with a better processor unlike single/ dual core processors
. As a matter of fact as he says there is no noise emanating even when you sit and listen attentively couple of feet away. Nothing else to it but to eliminate Electro magnetic induced disturbance.... and about the WD AVGP I dont think I said AV'GP' and am sorry if I misled you in any ways I said AV which is still a xxxxxxxxxxEARS model Hydra . (Personally I would prefer xxxxxxxxEARX which I already am using and quite contented with)I also agree with Sidvee when he says the sound quality is better in comparison to his previous sources because of better quality components used eg USB chipset/Northbridge etc
@Hydra: The front Case fan HAS been replaced my friend
with an Antec fan with Noise level of 8.9 db as it's switch will be at half speed(Theoretically From the Fan Specs).A complete Fan-less solution can be adopted (I feel) if there was decent airflow but looking where the Case is being placed I would still prefer otherwise to a considerable extent. Since this fan supported solution is surprisingly silent, there should be no issues there..
Using a low end proc for music with a collection of over 700 gigs to 1 TB or more can only make it slower after few days especially when the albums are accessed amidst playtime, So contrary to the Overkill statement I am sure we went the right way considering we can connect the HD projector to browse thru the files if need be. I am sure some of you will agree to this kind of scenario being seamless with a better processor unlike single/ dual core processors
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GeorgeO
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the above post-the fact is that when faster and newer processes and products are coming in faster than ever, you might as well go with specs at the upper end of available technologies to make your new dedicated PC as much future proof as possible.
If you go for the lowest specs or for an older system that may have been used and then outlived its utility elsewhere there is the real danger that you may need to upgrade sooner than later. Of course this doesn't apply in cases where resources might be a constraint, and you need to maximize use of available resources.
If you go for the lowest specs or for an older system that may have been used and then outlived its utility elsewhere there is the real danger that you may need to upgrade sooner than later. Of course this doesn't apply in cases where resources might be a constraint, and you need to maximize use of available resources.
I concur with George's and rud3dawg's assessment of the situation. I have also noticed that newer generation media center software (I am using Jriver 18, and 19 will be released in a month I believe), seem to take advantage of the capability of newer processors/chipsets and at-least to my ears, result in better SQ, which ultimately is the goal of the whole exercise.
BTW I monitored temps. Last evening after about 1.5 hours of music playback without the side fan connected.
Results:
Temp: Current: Max:
t200 28 28 28 28
t201 30 30 30 30
Tmpin0 49 51 49 51 (This is worrisome- not sure what it is but it appears high)
Tmpin1 30 31 32 32
intel Core i5
Temp: Current: Max:
Core0 38 40 39 40
Core1 37 39 42 41
Core2 38 39 41 42
Core3 38 40 43 44
Pkg 38 40 41 43
ATA WDC
Temp: Current: Max:
Assy: 32 34 32 34
What are your opinions on this? Do the processor temps. look high? I had the ac running and room temp. was 26. (I am worried about the 51 degree number also the intel core i5 temp. seems high as well at 43 for a max)
Cheers,
Sid
Ps: I added a second set of temps. (in red) from this mornings 1 hour session, ac was not on as outside temp. was 25, secondly I downloaded about 2.5 g of music from a stick to the drive prior to listening session about 2-3min download time.
BTW I monitored temps. Last evening after about 1.5 hours of music playback without the side fan connected.
Results:
Temp: Current: Max:
t200 28 28 28 28
t201 30 30 30 30
Tmpin0 49 51 49 51 (This is worrisome- not sure what it is but it appears high)
Tmpin1 30 31 32 32
intel Core i5
Temp: Current: Max:
Core0 38 40 39 40
Core1 37 39 42 41
Core2 38 39 41 42
Core3 38 40 43 44
Pkg 38 40 41 43
ATA WDC
Temp: Current: Max:
Assy: 32 34 32 34
What are your opinions on this? Do the processor temps. look high? I had the ac running and room temp. was 26. (I am worried about the 51 degree number also the intel core i5 temp. seems high as well at 43 for a max)
Cheers,
Sid
Ps: I added a second set of temps. (in red) from this mornings 1 hour session, ac was not on as outside temp. was 25, secondly I downloaded about 2.5 g of music from a stick to the drive prior to listening session about 2-3min download time.
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rikhav
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Hi Sid
The cpu temps won't alter much as it has a dedicated cooler for it. But surely with better air circulation in the cabinet it has go down
With better air circulation in the cabinet the memory, had, and motherboard temps will stay in control and as someone pointed in the longer run it is better for the pc components specially had
Expect your hdd temps to above 40 during peak summer which is not that bad but if it can stay under 35 is better
You can install a after market hdd cooling Heatsink which will make a difference few degrees. Same for RAM
But the best solution is to have better air circulation which will help motherboard, ram and hdd to have a longer life and better reliability
The cpu temps won't alter much as it has a dedicated cooler for it. But surely with better air circulation in the cabinet it has go down
With better air circulation in the cabinet the memory, had, and motherboard temps will stay in control and as someone pointed in the longer run it is better for the pc components specially had
Expect your hdd temps to above 40 during peak summer which is not that bad but if it can stay under 35 is better
You can install a after market hdd cooling Heatsink which will make a difference few degrees. Same for RAM
But the best solution is to have better air circulation which will help motherboard, ram and hdd to have a longer life and better reliability
maniac_2004
Member
Hi,
which is a good music player for a PC based set-up ? Is it Foobar ?
Since I am looking for the following headphone set-up.
PC->ODAC->Headphones
Also how do i do this setup on Linux ? Is it better (or worse ) than using windows XP / 7/8?
Regds
which is a good music player for a PC based set-up ? Is it Foobar ?
Since I am looking for the following headphone set-up.
PC->ODAC->Headphones
Also how do i do this setup on Linux ? Is it better (or worse ) than using windows XP / 7/8?
Regds
tmpin0 looks like CPU socket temperature. Although 51C is not all that bad, this could be problem if the AC is not on and outside temperature is on the slightly higher side. Problem is hot air in the case will not escape from the box easily unless expelled by the fan. My company's lab has chilling AC still all the systems run the fans at full blast to expel the hot air as just AC does not suffice. If the high temperature bothers you and fan is not an option, you can also try reducing the CPU frequency as I had suggested earlier which will definitely cool it down. I had similar problems when my server used to shutdown because of high temperatures in summer. I did as suggested and have not faced the problem since. Based on my experience as a storage engineer, 1 TB of largish flac files will not trouble the CPU even at reduced speeds.
@maniac_2004 - If you are keen, you can try installing Audiophile Linux and give us a review and hopefully a comparison against Windows based music PC. I am not getting enough motivation and time to install and test it out.
@maniac_2004 - If you are keen, you can try installing Audiophile Linux and give us a review and hopefully a comparison against Windows based music PC. I am not getting enough motivation and time to install and test it out
.Sidvee, just wondering if you buffer the music on an SSD for playback or is it done "on the fly"?
I currently have several external HDDs and 2 internal drives that are only used for storage of the music files, but make a playlist on an internal SSD when I want to play back the music. It does go through some proprietory jitter reduction and also the drive has some jukebox partitioning but I think that is only complementary rather than necessary to the playback.
I currently have several external HDDs and 2 internal drives that are only used for storage of the music files, but make a playlist on an internal SSD when I want to play back the music. It does go through some proprietory jitter reduction and also the drive has some jukebox partitioning but I think that is only complementary rather than necessary to the playback.
No Staxxx, I do not buffer using a ssd. However jriver has an option of a certain amount of buffer and I use the recommended setting, I tried both higher and lower but could not tell the difference.
Cheers,
Sid
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