New AVR upto 80k....?

[navin advani]

...Next do you really want those features right now ??? otherwise the better option is to buy a MDC enabled receiver and add cards as per requirement....Lets say future proof !

Getting a future proof AVR is a good idea but I do need the feature to control 2 different subwoofers. The way my room is set up I will have 2 subwoofers. The front subwoofer will be a larger 15" and the rear subwoofer will be a smaller 10". My goal is to be able to control bass of the 10" to ensure that it does not overload (hit Xmax).

Also since the 2 subwoofers are in very different locations the TA for each of the subs will be diffferent.

 

[anm]

Naveen - is the feature of controlling two different subs there in the avrs you are looking at?
I assume that all AVRs assume that bass is non directional so just split the output into two.
Are you hoping the auto calibration to do sub EQ for you for two different subs? It may not happen, again, due to "non directional" nature of low frequency.

You may have to use the volume control on individual subs in any case - and their individual crossovers.

 

[dillihifi]

Actually let me guess what navin is hinting at -

He wants (a) 2 nos of sub preouts (that is available in many receivers) and (b) to control the crossover frequency(can be done) and the lowest frequency to each sub (I am not aware of any thing other than an active xo for the same)

am I correct in the understanding

 

[anm]

This can also be achieved by EQ available on subs. Tuning however will be done by ear instead of audessy

 

[navin advani]

Are you hoping the auto calibration to do sub EQ for you for two different subs? It may not happen, again, due to "non directional" nature of low frequency.

You may have to use the volume control on individual subs in any case - and their individual crossovers.

Actually let me guess what navin is hinting at -

He wants (a) 2 nos of sub preouts (that is available in many receivers) and (b) to control the crossover frequency(can be done) and the lowest frequency to each sub (I am not aware of any thing other than an active xo for the same)

am I correct in the understanding

Yes ANM and Dilihifi, you have understood my query well.

1. Bass is not non-directional at least not the bass above 60Hz.
2. Time alignment of the 2 subwoofers would be different as they are in 2 different locations.
3. Dilihifi do you know of a AVR that can offer 2 different LPFs for the 2 subwoofers for example 100Hz to the 10" and 80Hz for the 15"?
4. Lastly as ANM pointed out I can get a plate amp with a HPF that can go down to 20Hz (and use that as a subsonic filter). It means I will have to DIY the sub (instead of getting something like Velodyne's MiniVee 10). Done anyone know of a good 10" subwoofer that is happy in say 1 cu. ft. (30 liters) sealed? Does anyone know of a plate amp that has a subsonic filter?

one option would be
Rythmik Audio • Subwoofer plate amplifiers
but the DS12CV is not available at the moment.

typical kits are like this Dayton one below.
Dayton Audio T1003K 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer Kit

 

[ashishkesarwani]

Yes ANM and Dilihifi, you have understood my query well.

1. Bass is not non-directional at least not the bass above 60Hz.
2. Time alignment of the 2 subwoofers would be different as they are in 2 different locations.
3. Dilihifi do you know of a AVR that can offer 2 different LPFs for the 2 subwoofers for example 100Hz to the 10" and 80Hz for the 15"?
4. Lastly as ANM pointed out I can get a plate amp with a HPF that can go down to 20Hz (and use that as a subsonic filter). It means I will have to DIY the sub (instead of getting something like Velodyne's MiniVee 10). Done anyone know of a good 10" subwoofer that is happy in say 1 cu. ft. (30 liters) sealed? Does anyone know of a plate amp that has a subsonic filter?

one option would be
Rythmik Audio • Subwoofer plate amplifiers
but the DS12CV is not available at the moment.

typical kits are like this Dayton one below.
Dayton Audio T1003K 10" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer Kit

I haven't come across even a single AVR as well as the Pre Power Combo at the budget segment which is capable of the above feature.
I know that this feature is present in the JBL Synthesis Package as they always recommend using more than 1 Subwoofer and they have a Passive Equalliser System which gives you the option of connecting more than 1 subwoofer and according to its placement it sets up different crossover, time delay as well as the level for each subwoofer.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

SO I'd need to get at least the NAD 765HD2 to get all the features present in the 6006/3312? How much more expensive is the 765?

WHich NAD AVR is in the same price point as the 6006/3312 (about 60-70K).

You need minimum T-775 HD2 if you want all the features out of the box which retails at Rs. 2.29L.
At the price point which you are looking at only NAD T 748 comes close.
I would suggest you to start with T 757 at this point and gradually upgrade it as and when required.

 

[anm]

see gr research - there is a group buying going on. you can get a 12" servo kit for $500

 

[navin advani]

You need minimum T-775 HD2 if you want all the features out of the box which retails at Rs. 2.29L.
At the price point which you are looking at only NAD T 748 comes close

The 775 is cheaper than the 777? The 777 has MultEQ XT which can help.
The 748 does not have Dual subwoofers preout or Audyssey MultEQ XT nor is it MDC equipped is it? Hence the 757 would be the cheapest NAD AVR that could be upgraded to have MultEQ XT using MDC

see gr research - there is a group buying going on. you can get a 12" servo kit for $500

Which kit? You got a link?
The compact subwoofer from GR is the 12B
SW-12B
The SW-12-04 requires a larger box (I think it was 16" cube).

 

[ashishkesarwani]

The 775 is cheaper than the 777? The 777 has MultEQ XT which can help.
The 748 does not have Dual subwoofers preout or Audyssey MultEQ XT nor is it MDC equipped is it? Hence the 757 would be the cheapest NAD AVR that could be upgraded to have MultEQ XT using MDC

NAD T777 has just been announced so it will take some 6 months for it to be here and as of now I have no idea of its pricing. Audyssey Multi EQ XT is there in MDC AM 200 which is there by default in both T775HD as well as HD2 and its obviously there in T777.
Yes the 748 is not equipped with all that features but in its price class it beats all the Yamaha/Onkyo/Denon.
Yes T 757 is the cheapest NAD AVR with MDC and upgradability option.

 

[anm]

The 775 is cheaper than the 777? The 777 has MultEQ XT which can help.
The 748 does not have Dual subwoofers preout or Audyssey MultEQ XT nor is it MDC equipped is it? Hence the 757 would be the cheapest NAD AVR that could be upgraded to have MultEQ XT using MDC



Which kit? You got a link?
The compact subwoofer from GR is the 12B
SW-12B
The SW-12-04 requires a larger box (I think it was 16" cube).

sw-12-04+370 amp was what I was recommending - a servo sub. But this deal/ shipping may take long time to realize.

 

[navin advani]

Audyssey Multi EQ XT is there in MDC AM 200 which is there by default in both T775HD as well as HD2 and its obviously there in T777.
Yes the 748 is not equipped with all that features but in its price class it beats all the .Yamaha/Onkyo/Denon

I can wait 6 months for the 777 wont it be cheaper and more integrated than a 757+AM200.

I noticed you said "Yamaha/Onkyo/Denon" but not Marantz.

sw-12-04+370 amp was what I was recommending - a servo sub. But this deal/ shipping may take long time to realize.

Can the 12-04 + 370 be used in a sealed box of 1 cu. ft.?

 

[anm]

that Danny can tell.

 

[dillihifi]

It all depends on what you are looking at. To my ears at least the NAD sounded better with more authority or has a different signature to its sound. Well after everything it all boils down to what u like irrespective of what others say.

Well the 777 may be cheaper than 757 + AM 200 but also has some extra watts.

 

[navin advani]

I have also come across good reviews for the Arcam AVR400 ..

Well the 777 may be cheaper than 757 + AM 200 but also has some extra watts.

The 777 might well be in the same price bracket as the Arcam AVR400.

At the price point which you are looking at only NAD T 748 comes close.

What is the price of the 748? I thought it was more comparable to the Marantz 7005 in price than the 6006. From what I know the NAD model in the same price bracket as the 6006 was the NAD 737.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

What is the price of the 748? I thought it was more comparable to the Marantz 7005 in price than the 6006. From what I know the NAD model in the same price bracket as the 6006 was the NAD 737.

NAD T 748 is retailed at 60K and T737 at 54.5K

 

[navin advani]

NAD T 748 is retailed at 60K and T737 at 54.5K

Thanks Ashish. One more question how useful is Audessey Mult EQ XT for setting up a Home Theater system? The 757 and 777 have it but the 748 does not.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

One more question how useful is Audessey Mult EQ XT for setting up a Home Theater system? The 757 and 777 have it but the 748 does not.

Audyssey Multi EQ XT which is a feature of MDC AM200 Module has an advantage of Room Correction feature in the form of Equilisation of any particular frequency that has a problem in your room or speakers.
Multi EQ has 3 options in Eq viz: NAD/FLAT/Audyssey, and it depends upon your preference of sound and you can switch between them as and when required.

Now Audyssey MutiEQ XT also support Audyssey Pro Calibration which costs 15K (FEE) and requires a professional to visit and do custom curve for you, and a license has to be bought from Audyssey which gets permanently attached to a Particular equipment. The advantage and difference can be easily heard.

 

[navin advani]

Audyssey Multi EQ XT which is a feature of MDC AM200 Module has an advantage of Room Correction feature in the form of Equilisation of any particular frequency that has a problem in your room or speakers.
Multi EQ has 3 options in Eq viz: NAD/FLAT/Audyssey, and it depends upon your preference of sound and you can switch between them as and when required.

Now Audyssey MutiEQ XT also support Audyssey Pro Calibration which costs 15K (FEE) and requires a professional to visit and do custom curve for you, and a license has to be bought from Audyssey which gets permanently attached to a Particular equipment. The advantage and difference can be easily heard.

Ashish,

From what you wrote, I understand that just having a MultEQ XT capable AVR wont solve anything. You first need a MultEQ XT AVR. then you need some qualified technician with the official software to visit and you also have to pay Audyssey a license fee for EVERY AVR you intend to MultEQ? Right? Is this licence a one time fee or is it annual or do you pay everytime you feel the need to upgrade your software. Is Audessey trying to "do a Microsoft" for Home Theater users? How different is Audessey from the automatic setup tools from NAD, Pioneer or Yamaha (Marantz and Denon have added Audessy's MultEQ XT to models in the sub 80K price).

Most AVRs (including the 6006, 748, 3312, A810 etc..) are "connected", can upscale/upconvert SD sources to HD (1080p) pretty well (some can even do 4K), have Airplay, dual HDMI outputs and some room correction below 200Hz. What will set them apart will be Sound quality (better DACs with high-quality audio decoding, bigger power supplies to dump currrent etc...) adjustable settings for 2 or more subwoofers and the Human Interface. Arcam seems to be doing a great job here - too bad even their baby AVR 400 is over 80K.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

Ashish,

From what you wrote, I understand that just having a MultEQ XT capable AVR wont solve anything. You first need a MultEQ XT AVR. then you need some qualified technician with the official software to visit and you also have to pay Audyssey a license fee for EVERY AVR you intend to MultEQ? Right? Is this licence a one time fee or is it annual or do you pay everytime you feel the need to upgrade your software. Is Audessey trying to "do a Microsoft" for Home Theater users? How different is Audessey from the automatic setup tools from NAD, Pioneer or Yamaha (Marantz and Denon have added Audessy's MultEQ XT to models in the sub 80K price).

Most AVRs (including the 6006, 748, 3312, A810 etc..) are "connected", can upscale/upconvert SD sources to HD (1080p) pretty well (some can even do 4K), have Airplay, dual HDMI outputs and some room correction below 200Hz. What will set them apart will be Sound quality (better DACs with high-quality audio decoding, bigger power supplies to dump currrent etc...) adjustable settings for 2 or more subwoofers and the Human Interface. Arcam seems to be doing a great job here - too bad even their baby AVR 400 is over 80K.

Even a Multi EQ XT capable AVR comes with a standard Audyssey Microphone bundled and a normal Multi EQ calibration can be performed by an individual without any cost. The advantage of performing it by a Audyssey Pro calibration kit is that you can design your own custom curve and set you own filters depending of individual taste for sound, it also shows the room response before the Eq and after it on a Graphical manner which is very easy to understand, also once this is done then that professional will also give you the certificate for it. Now about the Fee yes its charged only once for the entire lifespan of a product but an individual Professional would charge you a visiting fee for re-calibration which could be half of the original amount. But you only recalibrate if you move or change your speakers or do something to room acoustics.