Norge Reference 2000 Stereo Amplifier

[particleman]

It would be easy to mock Norge and say that they are not worthy of labels like "reference" or "audiophile." But how many Indian brands offer decent sound quality at the price they do? They may slip up a bit with tuners but their mainstay - stereo amplifiers - are well constructed and provide pretty darn good sound for their 4-figure price. Most importantly they have opened the doors to hi-fi for many a music lover on a budget who else may have had to opt for mini-component system.

If not for dazzling sound quality or state-of-the-art features, let us at least commend Norge for sparking interest in separates and being many an audiophile's "starter system" and for providing years of dedicated service to the audio industry.

 

[ranjeetrain]

You should've bought their 'REFERENCE" Tuner instead

Read this:

[*]Mr Shyam Bajaj was nice to deal with - Expected, all sellers are
[*]The delivery was prompt - Expected
[*]The sound quality was OK - Expected. I wouldn't expect a "REFERENCE"
level performance from a tuner costing so less.
[*]The product was quite armature - Discovery. Would have been good to share it well in time
[*]No auto tuning - Should be known in much advance. What would you call a buyer who doesn't know what he is buying? A tuner with "Auto tuning" or "Manual tuning"
[*]No user manual - Should be known much in advance whether the product comes with a manual. Anyway, I haven't read a manual for a tuner in my entire life and I can tune perfectly (and for God's sake, I am not even an awedeophile).
[*]No remote - Should be known in much advance. Why crib later if you don't know in advance what you are buying.
[*]Forgets the manually tuned stations if it is switched off for more than a day - Discovery worth sharing

and then decide, who is worth mocking, the seller? Or the buyer?

 

[awedeophile]

Sir, the marketplace today is global. It doesn't matter if the product is made in India, China, USA or Turkey. The product should stand up to the manufacturer's claims and be worth the amount spent on it (period). Norge has as much access to technology and components as an amplifer manufacturer in Europe or anywhere else.

I have nothing personal against Norge or any other Indian manufacturer.
In fact there have been Indian company's like Series and Pulz (I have owned both) making seperates since much before Norge and they were IMHO very good products. In fact, the Pulz pre-power had replaced my Yamaha (Made in Japan) integrated at the time (circa 1986).

 

[ranjeetrain]

You should've bought their 'REFERENCE" Tuner instead

Read this:

[*]Mr Shyam Bajaj was nice to deal with - Expected, all sellers are
[*]The delivery was prompt - Expected
[*]The sound quality was OK - Expected. I wouldn't expect a "REFERENCE"
level performance from a tuner costing so less.
[*]The product was quite armature - Discovery. Would have been good to share it well in time
[*]No auto tuning - Should be known in much advance. What would you call a buyer who doesn't know what he is buying? A tuner with "Auto tuning" or "Manual tuning"
[*]No user manual - Should be known much in advance whether the product comes with a manual. Anyway, I haven't read a manual for a tuner in my entire life and I can tune perfectly (and for God's sake, I am not even an awedeophile).
[*]No remote - Should be known in much advance. Why crib later if you don't know in advance what you are buying.
[*]Forgets the manually tuned stations if it is switched off for more than a day - Discovery worth sharing

and then decide, who is worth mocking, the seller? Or the buyer?

 

[awedeophile]

Mr. Rain.. The correct spelling is "AUDIOPHILE" and we heard you the first time!

 

[ranjeetrain]

Are they cheating? Are they doing something unethical or which is not a business practice?

If not, then just understand that you get what you pay for. If their products are not good VFM money, bring on what beats them at their price point and get done with it. Or else, just go out and buy the best you can afford, rather than mocking someone for their efforts. They are certainly not worth being mocked.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Mr. Rain.. The correct spelling is "AUDIOPHILE" and we heard you the first time!

I know. But I just love to spell it like that when I have the mood.

 

[awedeophile]

Are they cheating? Are they doing something unethical or which is not a business practice?

If not, then just understand that you get what you pay for. If their products are not good VFM money, bring on what beats them at their price point and get done with it. Or else, just go out and buy the best you can afford, rather than mocking someone for their efforts. They are certainly not worth being mocked.

I repeat that I have really nothing against Norge, it's owner or their products. I don't think I have even heard anything they manufacture so can't comment on that front.

My comments were directed at a post stating that they should not be compared to products from MNC's and more expensive ones. The point I was trying to make was that if can't complete with products made by MNC's and those more expensive than theirs, then they should not choose to badge their products "Reference" and "Audiophile". This is my personal opinion - that's all.

 

[awedeophile]

I know. But I just love to spell it like that when I have the mood.

Don't you mean when you're IN the mood? Grammar too?

 

[ranjeetrain]

Either way mate. A good wine tastes good whatever its name

 

[smedhavi]

>>>Thanks for your review of the Norge FM tuner in a Norge Reference 2000 Stereo Amplifier thread. However, it would have been much more useful if you started a thread with your review after you bought it and tested it.

I am sure that my first hand experience with the above Norge product is fully relevant in this thread.

I did post my initial experience after buying the product. Though I did not know about its amnesia that time

>>>Should be known in much advance.
No user manual - Should be known much in advance whether the product comes with a manual.
Not with Norge. The only thing you can do is call them up, or visit them at their home spot. The latter option is costlier than the product.

>>>What would you call a buyer who doesn't know what he is buying?

Norge customer
Just kidding. I'm one.

I don't have anything against Indian products. If you follow other threads, you might know I helped a relative buy a Cadence speaker last month. That's in a different league though.

Thanks,
Sharad

 

[ranjeetrain]

I repeat that I have really nothing against Norge, it's owner or their products. I don't think I have even heard anything they manufacture so can't comment on that front.

Thanks for the honest admission.

My comments were directed at a post stating that they should not be compared to products from MNC's and more expensive ones. The point I was trying to make was that if can't complete with products made by MNC's and those more expensive than theirs, then they should not choose to badge their products "Reference" and "Audiophile". This is my personal opinion - that's all.

1. I support the post recommending a comparison among similarly priced components. Unless otherwise stated, comparison should only be made among similarly priced components. That's how the world goes.

2. How many products in the world with the terms like "Reference" and "Audiophile" in their name, product brohure? Ans: So many of them. Then why pick Norge. Isn't that nit-picking at its best?

3. Both the terms "Reference" and "Audiophile" and relative terms. To make sure my own understanding of these words was correct, I searched net as well and my conclusion is that these words are relative and cannot help in classification of products. There is no boundary or line that separates "Reference" and "Non-Reference" products or "Audiophile" and "Non-Audiophile" products for that matter. If you know of any such line or boundary which respected by the world please bring it to our notice. Without it you are simply generating noise by using your own interpretation of these words.

 

[SuhasG]

The point I was trying to make was that if can't complete with products made by MNC's and those more expensive than theirs, then they should not choose to badge their products "Reference" and "Audiophile". This is my personal opinion - that's all.

I agree 100%.

This like an ordinary 'Laxmi Guest House ' calling it self a ??3 Star Luxury Hotel??!
There are certain norms for a hotel to be known as 3/5/7 star hotel, just because I start calling my hotel as a three start hotel doesn't necessarily makes it a 3 star hotel.

For a common man not even in a position to afford a two wheelers, Maruti 800 / Santro could be an ultra deluxe / luxury sedan but MARUTI (and Hyundai too) doesn't call respective car models as a 'ultra deluxe / luxury '.

The words "Reference" and "Audiophile" have certain meanings and benchmarks (similar to 3 start hotel category / deluxe sedan).

According to me using "Reference" and "Audiophile", for an entry level model is misleading.

I recall here an incidence where in a detergent advt (RIN, I believe) they used the words ' Thodasa, Jarasa (थ?डासा, ?रासा) ' etc and Consumer forum took actions against the company to remove those words from the advt as such ambiguous words are misleading.

I am not against the amp maker and its products , I haven't auditioned them yet but still a price tag of 10-15K tells me a lot about them.

To produce something "Reference" and "Audiophile" , needs years and years of expensive devlopment efforts , setting up a very elaborate manufacturing and testing faclilities, Ultra skilled workmen, expensive (mostly custom made) components.

In the given price range of 10-15K , there is nothing that can be produced and called "Reference" and "Audiophile".

Regards

SUhas

 

[ranjeetrain]

In the given price range of 10-15K , there is nothing that can be produced and called "Reference" and "Audiophile".

Does a person who understands that need to be bothered?

For poeple who are bothered with the name of that amp, here is something to think about: If you come across a person whose name is Shahrukh Khan will you start arguing with him and start mocking him?

 

[square_wave]

You should've bought their 'REFERENCE" Tuner instead

Now that would have to be be a "Magnum Dynalab"

 

[awedeophile]

3. Both the terms "Reference" and "Audiophile" and relative terms. To make sure my own understanding of these words was correct, I searched net as well and my conclusion is that these words are relative and cannot help in classification of products. There is no boundary or line that separates "Reference" and "Non-Reference" products or "Audiophile" and "Non-Audiophile" products for that matter. If you know of any such line or boundary which respected by the world please bring it to our notice. Without it you are simply generating noise by using your own interpretation of these words.

It is not just my opinion but that off many others here too.
NO reputable manufacturer of audio (specially high end) will call their product "Reference" unless they are ready to take on others. It took Bill Johnson of Audio Research almost 30 years of designing and manufacturing some world class products, before he was confident of launching a "Reference" line. He has mentioned this in a few reviews. Please search some more.

In India, Cadence makes some internationally respected, renowned and award winning audio equipment including the ~$12000 Canasya Power Amplifer which IMO beats many amps 2-3x it's price. They still don't use the term Reference for any of their products because they don't feel they are ready yet.

Since you don't feel that there is a boundary or line that seperates Reference and Non-Reference, I don't think you know much on this subject at all.

It's not me making the noise here.

 

[MalaiKulfi]

I have been reading this post with much interest and am inclined to agree that the term Reference and Audiophile should not be used unless the manufacturer intends them to be compared to others.

I can imagine some newbie with no knowledge of audio equipment walking into a store and being taken for a ride by the seller telling him he's getting a killer deal on a reference / audiophile amplifier costing 10-15K. Not everyone is knowledgeable of the price of real reference equipment!

As SuhasG rightly pointed out if you brand a 2 star hotel as 5 star, it will be compared with other 5 star hotels regardless of room rate charges. There are no two ways about that.

Lastly, Ranjeetrain, your analogy of Shah Rukh Khan does not rightly fit in with this argument. Also, being sarcastic and taking pot shots at others is not an intelligent way to have a healthy discussion or make a point.

 

[soundsgreat]

Hi,

Awedeophile Buddy,Please lets put an end to this topic as its already been done to death and more over no matter how and what you,I or any one say,Some people here will never agree and will never accept it so I think its about time to pull the plug of this thread as this has done more damage then any good ( hope don't mistake me ! ).

I've already said it and stopped,So Urging to do so !

My sincere request.

Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

It is not just my opinion but that off many others here too.
NO reputable manufacturer of audio (specially high end) will call their product "Reference" unless they are ready to take on others. It took Bill Johnson of Audio Research almost 30 years of designing and manufacturing some world class products, before he was confident of launching a "Reference" line. He has mentioned this in a few reviews. Please search some more.

In India, Cadence makes some internationally respected, renowned and award winning audio equipment including the ~$12000 Canasya Power Amplifer which IMO beats many amps 2-3x it's price. They still don't use the term Reference for any of their products because they don't feel they are ready yet.

Since you don't feel that there is a boundary or line that seperates Reference and Non-Reference, I don't think you know much on this subject at all.

It's not me making the noise here.

I know better than you and well enough to understand what to expect from an amp costing in 4 digits in Indian rupee. If you expect it to compete with the others costing 100x its price, up to you. You are on your own.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Also, being sarcastic and taking pot shots at others is not an intelligent way to have a healthy discussion or make a point.

Do you know who needs that advice the most? Obviously you don't. That's why you created a new ID to post on this thread. So you may live with your own assumptions and keep comparing a sub INR 10k product with a USD 30k product rest of your life. Good luck to you and likes of you.