PC playback as an alternative to CD Players

[sbfx]

J-River is a not free and i compared it with foobar (without WASAPI) and i found Foobar to be better. Have to figure out how to enable WASAPI though. Its J-River 16mb VS Foobar 7mb and i really like the UI of foobar. maybe wasapi will make a lot of difference... still testing it thanks

J-River is available for a 30 day trial fully functional any you must use the WASAPI Event-Style plugin only as it is proprietary to only J-River.


Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

MPC-HC with direct sound also sounds better.One may not find minor SQ difference.

Hmm direct sound isn't a good idea as windows would re-sample everything to 48Khz which is not bit-perfect.


Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

Hey Satyam,

It would be great if you could list out the components you used while assembling your Music server PC and the knowledge/Tips you learned while you were at it.

- Components
- how is at all connected

There are a lot of us who are seriousely looking to moving to a pc as a source. Looking to assemble one which looks like an audio component and keep it in the audio rack. I do not want a "typical pc type thingy in my room".

Any pointers ?

I will surely post the full spec of my setup in the evening!


Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[arj]

Hi!,

@Arj: Would have liked to meet you on your visit here in Mumbai, perhaps next time!, as for Windows 7 on Mac Mini well yes you could have the best of both worlds having a Mac and a Windows Platform at your disposal.

As for the Ayre I have never heard it but from what I have read its using Gordan's async usb implementation. If I had it my way I would always opt for firewire as USB as a protocol wasn't intended for streaming audio and on the other hand firewire is better suited for the job as the bandwidth available and the stack structure is far superior.

I guess the reason firewire never became the de-facto for computer audio is because it is a uncommon interface for PC's and only a standard for Mac OS X.

.

From what i hear , yours is a Dream setup and one of th setups i would really like to listen to ! hopefully soon..
Firewire vs USB is an interesting discussion From what i could understand, Firewire is the way to go in terms of quality. the only problem is that it is almost on its way out as an interface as only Apple seems to support it so future upgreadability is an issue. even with regard to Apple, my iMac has the new FW800 which is an altogether different connection pin..

I have till now tried the USB based trends UD10, the wireless based Apple Aiport express, and the M Audio firewire. all used only to convert to SPDIF into my DAC (and reclocking using a Monarchy DIP). the CD transport is still superior in resolution as well as the texture of Music.

2 options remaining are the Hitech Evo and the Bolder modified Squeezebox (ethernet option)

all the above are not really High end converters so am still with an open mind on this ..especially since Shantis setup was an eye opener to computer audio's potential.

But since computer audio is not going to go away and the options are only going to get more/better/cheaper , will focus on integerating my 2 subs better into the room as near long term and getting my TT up and ready as my medium term option

 

[Rockfella]

Does it make a difference in audio quality or GUI?

J-River is available for a 30 day trial fully functional any you must use the WASAPI Event-Style plugin only as it is proprietary to only J-River.


Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

From what i hear , yours is a Dream setup and one of th setups i would really like to listen to ! hopefully soon..
Firewire vs USB is an interesting discussion From what i could understand, Firewire is the way to go in terms of quality. the only problem is that it is almost on its way out as an interface as only Apple seems to support it so future upgreadability is an issue. even with regard to Apple, my iMac has the new FW800 which is an altogether different connection pin..

I have till now tried the USB based trends UD10, the wireless based Apple Aiport express, and the M Audio firewire. all used only to convert to SPDIF into my DAC (and reclocking using a Monarchy DIP). the CD transport is still superior in resolution as well as the texture of Music.

2 options remaining are the Hitech Evo and the Bolder modified Squeezebox (ethernet option)

all the above are not really High end converters so am still with an open mind on this ..especially since Shantis setup was an eye opener to computer audio's potential.

But since computer audio is not going to go away and the options are only going to get more/better/cheaper , will focus on integerating my 2 subs better into the room as near long term and getting my TT up and ready as my medium term option

Arj,

I think the Hiface Evo is a great option!! and its reasonably priced too!, I'm sure after a little effort and trying different settings on your os you would get it going properly!

I agree this is computer is only going to get more convenient and cheaper as time passes by!

A TT is a super option but I'm clumsy to take care of it!!

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

My HTPC specs;

Asus P5K-VM Motherboard with Firewire

Core2Quad 2.83GHz

Nvidia 8600 Fanless GPU

Antec Power supply 400Watts

Thermaltake HSF (18db Fan)
Thermaltake Global > Product > Cooler > CPUCooler > Intel > Core2/Pentium/CeleronSocketLGA775 > ISGC-300 > CLP0539

Apacer 32GB SSD

Windows 7 Professional with J-River installed.

2 System is a Macbook Pro which is used occasionally to experiment with Mac playback options.

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[particleman]

Hi Satyam,

If I might butt in, please could you also share the details of the cabinet you are using (and if any RFI treatment in use) and the hard disc drives that are connected (apart from the SSD you listed)? Thanks!

 

[square_wave]

My HTPC specs;

Asus P5K-VM Motherboard with Firewire

Core2Quad 2.83GHz

Nvidia 8600 Fanless GPU

Antec Power supply 400Watts

Thermaltake HSF (18db Fan)
Thermaltake Global > Product > Cooler > CPUCooler > Intel > Core2/Pentium/CeleronSocketLGA775 > ISGC-300 > CLP0539

Apacer 32GB SSD

Windows 7 Professional with J-River installed.

2 System is a Macbook Pro which is used occasionally to experiment with Mac playback options.

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

Awesome ! Thanks. This is a great starting point. When you get some time, do share any tips.
Can this be assembled into a chassis which is of the same size as an audio gear (size of a typical amp- for instance the size of a Leben integrated) and installed horizontally into a hifi rack ? I am thinking of the size of the mother board and how it all comes together. I am not too keen on a typical pc cabinet.

 

[anm]

the noise is still there when appletv is out of the rca/ power network. So appletv 160gb is cleared of the charge.

I use an appletv old version. Limitations are same as they are on mac, and there is no usb out support, so require spdif dac. OTOH, the interface is great, and can be controlled via ipod touch/ iphone. Even tried one andriod phone app and it worked.

I have been hearing some noise when playing songs with appletv, and I thought I zeroed in on the DAC, but now I am not too sure. I think it may be an issue of sparks due to power plug not fitting power strip well.

 

[Rockfella]

U can buy coolermaster HTPC cabinets.

Hi Satyam,

If I might butt in, please could you also share the details of the cabinet you are using (and if any RFI treatment in use) and the hard disc drives that are connected (apart from the SSD you listed)? Thanks!

 

[sbfx]

Hi Satyam,

If I might butt in, please could you also share the details of the cabinet you are using (and if any RFI treatment in use) and the hard disc drives that are connected (apart from the SSD you listed)? Thanks!

I'm using a basic ATX cabinet nothing fancy as the Heat-sink that I use is HUGE and it wont fit in most HTPC cabinets so aesthetically it is a very basic PC which is hidden from the main setup.

As for RFI I'm using a powercord with a RFI filter on it which I think everyone should do! I'm attaching the pictures of the same.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

Awesome ! Thanks. This is a great starting point. When you get some time, do share any tips.
Can this be assembled into a chassis which is of the same size as an audio gear (size of a typical amp- for instance the size of a Leben integrated) and installed horizontally into a hifi rack ? I am thinking of the size of the mother board and how it all comes together. I am not too keen on a typical pc cabinet.

This is the only hard-drive that is installed in the machine, all the content is streamed remotely from another computer on a gigabit lan, this PC is used for video too.

There are many cabinets you can look at the best Ive come across is from Antec that bhagwan uses, I don't use one as my Heat-sink doesn't permit me to do so because of the size.

Regards,

Satyam Bachani.

 

[sbfx]

Picture of the filter.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8645/img2011010800007.jpg

 

[spirovious]

Have a look @ some DACs-
Which DAC to choose for your Computer?

 

[bhagwan]

"Calyx DAC
The Calyx DAC is part of a new breed of DACs, sporting the hot new Sabre ES9018 DAC chip (8 converters!) with extraordinary execution. Designed primarily as a USB DAC, the Calyx provides asynchronous USB connection with data rates of 24bit/192kHz. A single coaxial digital input is provided as well. Powered by the USB port, it has a clean power re-generator inside to ensure there is no noise introduced from the Computer. Milled out of a solid aluminium billet, the Calyx is as cutting edge as it gets in 2011."

This is an option to consider...

 

[vinayaga]

Just FYI, I regularly assemble media PC's without a single fan in them. You cannot even make out of the PC is on unless you see the light outside. It all boils down to using passive cooling and DC power.

Convenience wise there is no denying that it can be the best way to listen to your music hassle free
But as far as my experience goes I was not happy with using PC as source. As Mr. Shanti has pointed out it will require proper selection of PC configuration, softwares and settings
For me doing all that is a bigger hassle and so for me a CDP works better as of now even if i need to change discs
The most important thing is to accommodate a PC with your hifi setup. It adds to clutter of wires already present and the cabinet fan noise is irritating. Ofcourse you can go for hi-end power supplies, cup cooling fans and system fans which make minimum noise. But then it will still make some noise

 

[vinayaga]

Let me explain a little more. Here is one simple configuration:

1. Go for a Panache T3311 case (3k) with a inbuilt 60w DC power.
http://panache.co.in/store/product_info.php?products_id=186

2. Add a Intel Atom 525 dual core passive motherboard and CPU (5k).
Amazon.com: Intel Atom Dual-Core D525/Intel NM10/DDR3/A&V&GbE/Mini-ITX Motherboard, Retail BOXD525MW: Electronics

3. Add a external usb sound card like the Creative X-fi which can output the digital audio without any processing to the amp or receiver.

Amazon.com: Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro USB Audio System with THX SB1095: Electronics

4. Add a 32gb SSD card for the basic OS. Primeabgb has a Kingston 32gb SSD for 3.2k.

The atom is not capable of playing high quality video, but for audio, it has enough horsepower. And the setup above will make zero noise

 

[wtaylorbasil]

Computer as a 'transport' is better than a spinning CD

A. PC also has a spinning HD. So how is this different to a CD player?

B. I have been trying to take that route but I need a lot of help. Here is my story.

1. For convenience, my intention was to rip (dBpoweramp/EAC) all CDs (44.1KHz/16bit) to FLAC lossless and store on 1TB external HD. Playback the tracks with confidence that they would be of same SQ to the original CD tracks. Also download 96KHz/24bit & 192KHz/24bit tracks from websites. I may in the future convert my Vinyls too.
2. I purchased the Onkyo TXNR609 receiver because it has USB input for connecting to mass storage device by scrolling to tracks. Unfortunately, it cannot play 192/24 FLAC Hi-Res tracks. My big disappointment is that the FLAC (44.1/16) played via USB is not as good as the original CD played on Cambridge Audio 650BD through the same Receiver via HDMI 1.3 cable. I am very satisfied with the SQ of CA650BD.
3. Now for further convenience, I am cataloguing all CDs on Collectorz database on PC/laptop (is this suitable for what I want-see later). The CDs can be hyperlinked to the ripped tracks and played this way. I do not want PC/Laptop to be wired to my Audio system, if possible.
4. In order to achieve the same SQ of the FLAC compared to the CD, what will be the simplest equipment arrangements I will need?

My IT knowledge is not great. I have read about USB clocking errors and various DAC issues etc, which is beyond me.

If I can be guided gently, I may cope. I would like to complete this project the best way I can. Any help from anyone will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bhagwan]

My IT knowledge is not great.

Sir,
We are in the same boat;

However, my limited experience in this field has shown / taught me that computer audio is not about what you use - but how you use it;
It Just like vinyl playback. If you do not set up the TT & Arm & the Cartridge etc up in an appropriate manner - the best gear will sound 'lousy' !

I shall try and comment on what you have done & what you can try;

a]
Playback your music in foobar. I find it the best - acoustically -
Other player have super interface - but the sonics are not up to the mark. J River / Media Monkey etc.

b]
PC to have an excellent power supply Cossair etc.

c]
No Antivirus on your machine

d]
Except for Windows 7 - 64 bit - no other software should be present on your PC.

e]
Latency should be very very low - 100 at least

f]
In foobar - play all music off the ram with maximum buffering

g]
100ms is what the figure should be, I work @ 50ms [currently] - the lower the better

h]
Are you using the same DAC for the CD Player & Computer ?

i]
When you rip your CD in dB do it in Pure PCM - get the settings done for pure performance & error free - not for speed. rather important.

j]
Ideally your PC should have a SSD drive for the O/S - this makes a 'huge' difference.

I can write more. Actually I could have helped further - but you are not from Mumbai, else we could have done this together.

Computer Audio is the way to go, just get it right - it is too good !

All the Best !

p.s. Currently my Android device controls my music play back. It is simply very nice...