Please suggest a good Cartridge for Project Debut 3 TT

[gsubash]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Vinyl. Cart setup is all about spending time and learning the intricacies yourself. It will easily take you a few weeks of experimentation to get it right. So take your time, download the alignment charts, read up as much as you can and make sure your protect the stylus at all times. Get yourself some good forceps or fine pliers to fix the leads in and a good magnifying glass (nowadays they come with a light too). I use a laser sight to align the tonearm as well (probably not required on all tonearms). Once you get it right, leave and don't mess with it. I destroyed my leads completely trying to mess with a few cartridges. The brush is to make sure the dust doesn't clog the stylus and probably wont improve audio quality (hasn't in my case). Have fun brother. Cheers..Amar

 

[mahiruha]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Vinyl. Cart setup is all about spending time and learning the intricacies yourself. It will easily take you a few weeks of experimentation to get it right. So take your time, download the alignment charts, read up as much as you can and make sure your protect the stylus at all times. Get yourself some good forceps or fine pliers to fix the leads in and a good magnifying glass (nowadays they come with a light too). I use a laser sight to align the tonearm as well (probably not required on all tonearms). Once you get it right, leave and don't mess with it. I destroyed my leads completely trying to mess with a few cartridges. The brush is to make sure the dust doesn't clog the stylus and probably wont improve audio quality (hasn't in my case). Have fun brother. Cheers..Amar

Hello Amar,
thanks for your suggestion. I just have one question for you. How do u define " to get it right" . Do you have experience with any of these to GET IT RIGHT. LP Test Records In your opinion are they worthwile to buy.since you have experimented with few styluses what is the best way to clean a stylus.
Thanks.

 

[gsubash]

Trust me, your ears will know when you have hit the sweet spot. Test it on music and discs you are familiar with so that you have a reference. Its not as difficult as it appears.

 

[stevieboy]

there's no other way of saying this so i'll say it upfront. you'll never know if you've got it just right. at most you can get it sounding good. there's no 'right' spot at all. just a broad zone of adjustment and within that a smaller zone of adjustment. get it into this smaller zone and let it be

fact is different lps also have different thicknesses and different cutting angles so your adjustment will be more 'right' for certain discs than others. some people with easily adjustable arms have noted vta height adjustment for their lps and adjust before each play!

broadly when the sound is balanced, soundstage seems good, highs are not strident or bass not overwhelming you know you've got a good balance going. that's when you stop. beyond that lies frustration

you probably have a listening preference too, either more treble or more bass and you can set up your tt tilted to either if you prefer that too!

regards

and to cheer you up even further as your cart gets used, and the suspension settles, you'll have to readjust vta, raising the arm height a little hehe

so i'd suggest the project dealer setting it up and you taking it after six months or so for a readjustment, depending on play. get bout 100-200 hours on it before readjustment.

EDIT: for a debut III and your cart a test record might be an indulgence and not necessary especially if you're getting it set up by a dealer. assuming the dealer knows his stuff. there are two views, test records work and test records dont work since the tracks dont resemble actual music. take your pick

 

[anm]

so what cart did you decide finally? Denon DL 110 is also suggest in the link you have posted.

 

[mahiruha]

Hello anant,
I have decided to get ortofon 2m red cartridge. But bit hesitant to take the plunge as I am bit intimidated by the fact that fitting the cart isn't such an easy affair. But I am by nature an impulsive person one day I might get a flash in my head that its the day to get the catridge and I will get it. For some reason it hasn't happened as of yet.
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

Dear Mahiruha,

I use the Ortofon 2m Red with my ProJect Xpression TT and think it's bloody good for the price. Yes, you could contact Mr Anand of Nova Audio. He has 2m red in stock.

With regards to the "Blue" upgrade, reviews suggest it's a better idea to go the whole hog and go for "Black". The blue is neither here nor there kinda deal. It's good, but could be much better for a few dollars more, if you know what I mean.

Hello Sharukh,
how much did you pay for the ortofon 2m red cartridge. Just trying to get a fair idea. I was quoted 8000 in Calcutta which I think on the higher side.
Thnaks.

 

[stevieboy]

wooo 8k seems high. round 4-5 i think...

 

[mahiruha]

Thanks Steven. I was also thinking in the same line.

 

[mahiruha]

Hi all,
so finally I took the plunge and procured this shure M 97xe cartridge. When I was going through the technical specification I was let down by the fact that the counterweight in my turntable can suuport cartridge upto weight 5.5 gms and the cartridge I got weighs 6.6 gms . I just thought let me just go with it and see what comes up. I must admit its a extremely fiddly job I have ever come across. It almost took me 45 mintues just to put a very small nut in that very small screw. The screws that came along with the cartridge weren't long enough to hold it. Pulling those very thin wires from the stock cartridge was quite a job. I was really worried that after this effort my turntable might die. So after a very tedious process I just decided to play a vinyl and thank god it was playing quite well. Now my question is I haven't change any setting in the counter weight but my new cartridge is putting additional 1.6 gms of wight in the tonearm. do I really need to fiddle with the counter weight to compensate this extra 1.6gms. What might be the detrimental effect of this extra 1.6gms weight.I don't have much complain about th sound but do I need to worry about the traking force if so how do I calculate the tracking force. The specification for the new shure cartridge is
Shure M97 XE Audiophile Phono Cartridge. 800-229-0644 M97XE Cartridge.
Thanks in advance,
Mahiruha.

 

[anilva]

Hi all,
so finally I took the plunge and procured this shure M 97xe cartridge. When I was going through the technical specification I was let down by the fact that the counterweight in my turntable can suuport cartridge upto weight 5.5 gms and the cartridge I got weighs 6.6 gms . I just thought let me just go with it and see what comes up. I must admit its a extremely fiddly job I have ever come across. It almost took me 45 mintues just to put a very small nut in that very small screw. The screws that came along with the cartridge weren't long enough to hold it. Pulling those very thin wires from the stock cartridge was quite a job. I was really worried that after this effort my turntable might die. So after a very tedious process I just decided to play a vinyl and thank god it was playing quite well. Now my question is I haven't change any setting in the counter weight but my new cartridge is putting additional 1.6 gms of wight in the tonearm. do I really need to fiddle with the counter weight to compensate this extra 1.6gms. What might be the detrimental effect of this extra 1.6gms weight.I don't have much complain about th sound but do I need to worry about the traking force if so how do I calculate the tracking force. The specification for the new shure cartridge is
Shure M97 XE Audiophile Phono Cartridge. 800-229-0644 M97XE Cartridge.
Thanks in advance,
Mahiruha.

Ofcourse you need to worry about rebalancing your tonearm with the new cartridge! First make the anti-skate zero and any tracking force dials to zero and then make sure that the counter weight balances the cartridge so that the tonearm is horizontal and freely floating.

I am sure your tonearm can support Shure M97 kind of weight and hopefully the counter weight can balance it. If not, you are in a bit of trouble. You may need to have a Shure tracking force guage or something like that to measure the downward force at the needle point exerted by the tonearm.

If you are able to balance, all you need to do turn the tracking force dial to something like 1.5gms and also set the antiskate to 1.5gms.

I am ofcourse assuming that you have downloaded a alignment protractor from Vinly Engine and are using it to align the null points with the stylus tip using most probably a Baerwald's alignment.

The effects of wrong alignment of tonearm/cartridge is quality of reproduction as well as damage to your vinyl records.

I am sure I have not made it easy for you, but Vinyl is not easy anyway....

Cheers!

 

[mahiruha]

Ofcourse you need to worry about rebalancing your tonearm with the new cartridge! First make the anti-skate zero and any tracking force dials to zero and then make sure that the counter weight balances the cartridge so that the tonearm is horizontal and freely floating.

I am sure your tonearm can support Shure M97 kind of weight and hopefully the counter weight can balance it. If not, you are in a bit of trouble. You may need to have a Shure tracking force guage or something like that to measure the downward force at the needle point exerted by the tonearm.

If you are able to balance, all you need to do turn the tracking force dial to something like 1.5gms and also set the antiskate to 1.5gms.

I am ofcourse assuming that you have downloaded a alignment protractor from Vinly Engine and are using it to align the null points with the stylus tip using most probably a Baerwald's alignment.

The effects of wrong alignment of tonearm/cartridge is quality of reproduction as well as damage to your vinyl records.

I am sure I have not made it easy for you, but Vinyl is not easy anyway....

Cheers!

Hello anilva,
thanks for your reply. Will try and do the necessary stuff to get the most out of shure. Have located a huge magnifying glass that belonged to my grandfather. So I am all set to go for a microscopic surgery. But the problem is my counter weight can only support cratridges upto weight 5.5 gms. So Unless I procure a new counter weight the tonearm balancing is out of question.I am thinking if I wrap a lucoplast few times around the counterweight few times that might increase its weight by 3 gms and I can use it to balance the tone arm. Do you think it is a good idea? I have located the required counter wight
Pro-Ject Debut Counterweight >> Spare Counterweight for Pro-Ject Debut Turntable
but I guess it will take some time to arrive.
Thanks.

 

[anilva]

Hello anilva,
thanks for your reply. Will try and do the necessary stuff to get the most out of shure. Have located a huge magnifying glass that belonged to my grandfather. So I am all set to go for a microscopic surgery. But the problem is my counter weight can only support cratridges upto weight 5.5 gms. So Unless I procure a new counter weight the tonearm balancing is out of question.I am thinking if I wrap a lucoplast few times around the counterweight few times that might increase its weight by 3 gms and I can use it to balance the tone arm. Do you think it is a good idea? I have located the required counter wight
Pro-Ject Debut Counterweight >> Spare Counterweight for Pro-Ject Debut Turntable
but I guess it will take some time to arrive.
Thanks.

Yes, if you can balance the tonearm with lucoplast - no problem. All it needs is that the tonearm is balanced at the tracking weight dial set to zero. After that you set whatever downward force tracking force you want. I personally use a Shure M97 and it tracks well around 1.5 grams. Remember the practice is always to start at the upper end of the tracking weight of the cartridge and bring it down to your ideal listening level. It is not the other way - meaning starting at the lowest tracking weight and increasing it. Vinyl damage is more at low tracking forces than at high tracking forces.

I repeat the point that you must align the cartridge with a alignment protractor as if it is a new turntable for best results.

Cheers.

 

[Hiten]

First make the anti-skate zero and any tracking force dials to zero and then make sure that the counter weight balances the cartridge so that the tonearm is horizontal and freely floating.

Forgive me if I am wrong but as far as I know first you balance the tonearm so it floats horizontally then move the dial on counterweight to zero position

I need to worry about the traking force if so how do I calculate the tracking force. The specification for the new shure cartridge is

after first balancing tonearm and making dial at zero position, return tonearm to its base move counter weight to recommended weight. recommended tracking force in this particular case is 0.75 to 1.50 gms.

But the problem is my counter weight can only support cratridges upto weight 5.5 gms.

I think you are mixing two things (again forgive me if I am wrong) Cartridge Weight and tracking force weight. if you have fitted cartridge and tonearm is balanced (floats horizontally) then there should not be problem.

here is step by step points
1) balance the tone arm so it floats horizontally
2) make this position zero on counterweight dial
3) return tone arm to its base
4) move counter weight to recommended tracking force weight
5) make anti skate (if available) to same figure as tracking force weight

Hope you enjoy doing this, if you love vinyl its fun
here is more info
Cartridge Alignment: The Basics Explained
Regards

 

[mahiruha]

Well I just tried to do alignment. The project manual comes with a alignment tool what I understood that I have to put it in the spindle and and it has lot of parallel lines in a square box. I need to adjust the cartridge in such a manner so that the stylus is absolutely parallel to on of the lines. But I must admit it is a very very difficult thing to achieve even with a magnifying glass since the stylus not viewable from the top.One more question I have when you use thes Shure cart do you keep the brushes at the lowerd positions or completely raise it so that it doesn't touch the record surface.
Thanks.

 

[mahiruha]

I think you are mixing two things (again forgive me if I am wrong) Cartridge Weight and tracking force weight. if you have fitted cartridge and tonearm is balanced (floats horizontally) then there should not be problem.

Well If the counterweight doesn't have enough mass it will never be able to counter balance the cartridge. Its a plain weight balancing thing.I can feel it is exerting more force since in between two songs I can hear some random noises which I didn't hear before. I guess it is due to the fact the overweight of the cart ridge is pusing the stylus more into the groove than desired.When i played around with the counterwight it got reduced a bit but I still feel I need a proper counterweight to get it done properly.The tracking force and and antiskaitng comes later into the story. Have tried adjusting azimuth? I found it extremely difficult thing to do.
Thanks.

 

[Hiten]

Well If the counterweight doesn't have enough mass it will never be able to counter balance the cartridge. Its a plain weight balancing thing.I can feel it is exerting more force

if its exerting more force pl. be careful as stylus of cartridge may get damaged while playing.

I am thinking if I wrap a lucoplast few times around the counterweight few times that might increase its weight by 3 gms

Instead of that try rubber bands around counterweight or you will have to clean adhesive residue afterwards. Best thing is to wait for new counterweight.

 

[mahiruha]

Thanks Hiten rubber band seems to be a very good idea. Let me try with it.

 

[myriad]

Mahiruha,
You can add weight to the counterweight with lucoplast or rubber band as Hiten suggested.
I have a Shure Stylus Pressure gauge. If you want you can take that for couple of days to set your cart,
Regards
Vasu

 

[mahiruha]

Hello Vasu,
thanks for your kind offer. I found that lucoplast is a better solution. I tried to get a measurement the number of rubber band needed to add a weight of 3gms. The number turned out to be 33. Its a pretty tough job to add 33 rubber bands and it looks really clumsy. The nicer solution is lucoplast I just folded them longitudinally so that neither side has any adhesive. Then I just rap it around the counter weight and put some tape at the end. It looks neat and serves the purpose. But I am not too sure about the weight. tomorrow have to visit a jeweller to get exactly 3gms weight of lucoplast.(Probably the first time he will receive such a request) Right now it is bit on the heavier side. Well when you use the pressure gauge what exactly you do with it. I mean what you adjust with it?
Thnaks.