Power cables - am bewildered!

[kanwar]

@keith: the Morale Officer of HFV asks if you can make such threads a monthly feature?

Too stressful

Bring it on...., after all its Fun and learning, i learn alot from you guys.

 

[Santy]

Bring it on...., after all its Fun and learning

Before that,
Having agreed on band-aid effect, we need to now move to Part II of the discussion ie. to clarify the possible differences between a $50 and a $1000 band-aid. hyeah:

 

[arj]

The problem with all uk plugs is it has a pretty lousy fuse inside the plug . If you want to retain the plug, just put a nice copper cable instead ..preferably soldered
Edit: i believe it has more to do with the connectors to the fuse (additional ones) than the fuse per se

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

... i learn a lot from you guys.

I'm not sure that we should take that as a complement hyeah:

The problem with all uk plugs is it has a pretty lousy fuse inside the plug . If you want to retain the plug, just put a nice copper cable instead ..preferably soldered

Hmmm....

Kanwar? Having decided that size matters, should we worry about that .25 inch of titchy wire inside that fuse?

I never did before, but heck, there is stuff to learn.

 

[shanmune]

The most important point that has been concluded or clarified is about the need of good power cords. Again, "Good" means it is left to the individual's definition . So we all (or few of us) conclude that the power cords may play a role if the power supply unit of the audio component is not well designed.

My question is - How does a good power cable act even as a band-aid or a work around solution for systems without well designed power supply unit ? As far as what I learnt from this thread, a good cable ( at least the twisted one) can only suppress the "radiated EMI", but not the garbage coming in from the main AC power socket. Kanwar has explained how that incoming garbage can impact the power supply unit. So my understanding is - The only benefit we can see with a good power cord is the suppression of "radiated emi" and that suppression of the emi brings out good for the audio component with ordinary power supply units. So irrespective of the cable quality, the input garbage is still a problem. Is this a safe and more appropriate conclusion one can make ?

Before that,
Having agreed on band-aid effect, we need to now move to Part II of the discussion ie. to clarify the possible differences between a $50 and a $1000 band-aid. hyeah:

I am eagerly waiting for your thoughts for the above two questions. Let's say the minimum criteria for a good cable is what jls001 mentioned (and also being twisted). I am repeating the questions again and trying to put them short and precise.
1. Apart from suppressing the "radiated emi" (and also assuming the cable is good enough to carry the required power and plugs fitting correctly/tightly into the socket), what other benefit does this "band-aid" solution offers for audio components with poorly designed power supply units ?


2. As Santy has asked, what is the difference between a $50 and a $1000 band-aid ?

This thread has been sharing more technical details and so I expect a technical answer as well.

 

[keith_correa]

I'm not sure that we should take that as a complement hyeah:

I think he means that he has a lot to learn from us on how and what not to post.

 

[arj]

I'm not sure that we should take that as a complement hyeah:



Hmmm....

Kanwar? Having decided that size matters, should we worry about that .25 inch of titchy wire inside that fuse?

I never did before, but heck, there is stuff to learn.

Edited the post to add. it is the additional connectors which create the problem frm what i know ( and i dont think most fuse ends are copper anyway hence am pretty sure there is some arcing)

 

[doors666]

so whats a bad power supply in an equipment?

What about a decent smps
what about a trafo/caps based regulated supply using 78xx or equiv regulators.
what about a trafo/caps based linear supply, with enough caps.

how would you improve the above mentioned supplies so that you dont need a band aid.

 

[keith_correa]

so whats a bad power supply in an equipment?

What about a decent smps
what about a trafo/caps based regulated supply using 78xx or equiv regulators.
what about a trafo/caps based linear supply, with enough caps.

how would you improve the above mentioned supplies so that you dont need a band aid.

To further this, between an SMPS, linear power and regulated power - which would you prefer for a power amp, a DAC and a pre-amp?

 

[kanwar]

Better to start a Part II Thread.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Edited the post to add. it is the additional connectors which create the problem frm what i know ( and i dont think most fuse ends are copper anyway hence am pretty sure there is some arcing)

They are not. I don't know what metal they are made of. I don't think that different metals cause arcing: that is caused by a gap?

Offtopic... I won't be around online much for next week or two. I'll catch up after that

 

[indialogue]

my next cable order will go to Blue Jeans or one of the other companies with similar practices.

Do let me know if this is sometime soon. I'm interested in purchasing some Interconnects and their Ethernet cables! We could pool our orders and split Fedex shipping

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

sometime soon

Sorry, indialogue, but it is unlikely to be.

I have a dream of a very fancy headphone amp, which will require a combination of balanced cables plus connectors I do not have. My current balanced connectors are home soldered, and my soldering is not up to much. If it happens then I may buy new cables.

But that dream may be a year or two away from fulfilment ...so don't wait for me!

 

[blackscorpio]

Do let me know if this is sometime soon. I'm interested in purchasing some Interconnects and their Ethernet cables! We could pool our orders and split Fedex shipping

After reading so much about cables (power, speaker, interconnects) I want to jump on the band wagon and test on my own if different cables make any difference. But I am already convinced that my current setup is quite revealing , best sounding as it is now, and nothing is going to make it better/worse. BTW, all my current cables come from monoprice and power cords included originals with the equipment.

May be we should start a group by thread, for sharing the shipping costs, I am in for couple of interconnects and speaker cable from bluejeans as well.

 

[indialogue]

Sorry, indialogue, but it is unlikely to be.

I have a dream of a very fancy headphone amp, which will require a combination of balanced cables plus connectors I do not have. My current balanced connectors are home soldered, and my soldering is not up to much. If it happens then I may buy new cables.

But that dream may be a year or two away from fulfilment ...so don't wait for me!

No problem! Hope you will share details of your dream on another thread, so that we can join in as well!

After reading so much about cables (power, speaker, interconnects) I want to jump on the band wagon and test on my own if different cables make any difference. But I am already convinced that my current setup is quite revealing , best sounding as it is now, and nothing is going to make it better/worse. BTW, all my current cables come from monoprice and power cords included originals with the equipment.

May be we should start a group by thread, for sharing the shipping costs, I am in for couple of interconnects and speaker cable from bluejeans as well.

Happy for you to take the lead as I'm going off for 2-odd weeks from 14th onwards and cannot take this responsibility. I just need the interconnects and the ethernet cables

 

[blackscorpio]

Happy for you to take the lead as I'm going off for 2-odd weeks from 14th onwards and cannot take this responsibility. I just need the interconnects and the ethernet cables

I am not able to make a new thread in the group by category, looks like I don't have the permissions.

 

[denom]

Hi all,

lets discuss further on the thread below, dedicated to all queries related to cables/power supplies & allied components

http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/47258-cables-power-supplies-discussions.html#post535426

 

[indialogue]

I am not able to make a new thread in the group by category, looks like I don't have the permissions.

Only dealers post there it seems? Maybe just a post in Audio/Video Cables sub-forum should do?

 

[keith_correa]

Like a bad penny, this has turned up [resurrected]:

By Lynn Olson:

The power supplies for the vast majority of solid-state amplifiers (there are a few exceptions) create large amounts of switching noise in the 5 to 50 kHz range. The basic EMI-rejection filters occasionally seen in power amps do not reject the switching-current pulses created by the diode bridge.

The switch-noise (which is program-modulated in Class AB amplifiers) is radiated into the amplifier and back out the power cord. The power cord acts as an antenna for the switch noise. The main function of overpriced audiophile "line conditioners" is slightly filtering this noise and limiting its interaction with other audio components.

To the extent that line cords and power conditioners are audible at all, it's due to the emission of switch-noise from the highest-current component in the system ... the power amplifier. The other components in the system, particularly jitter-sensitive DACs, are then degraded by the noise.

A much better solution than wasting money on (extremely) overpriced power cords is designing the supply so it doesn't generate switch-noise in the first place ... by placing a high-current inductor between the diode bridge and the main electrolytic cap array, limiting the dI/dT (risetime) of the switch pulse. It's common practice (choke-fed power supply) in the vacuum-tube world, going back to the Thirties, but is quite rare in solid-state applications.

This is part of the reason I design my own amplifiers. There's a lot of bad practice out there, and the audiophile band-aids are a joke: they work at the 5% level, while ignoring gross design errors that are responsible for the other 95% of the trouble.

 

[jls001]

And I thought we have resolved for good one of life's existential questions