Power Chord

[nandac]

I was communicating with the owner of a well known Canadian based high end tube amp/speakers company. querying about the qualitative improvement of sq in a tube amp by upgrading the caps to Teflon v-caps, he told me that money would be better spent by buying his power cable which according to him would deliver : "Better sound and lower noise".

in my experimentations with audio gear, I understand the importance of power and so can relate to a better power chord providing a better sound.

how many of you concur?

btw the power chord advocated by the owner costs like 300 usd. but in Singapore I can get pre-owned branded power chords for like 100 to 200 sgd. even if the latter cannot match up to former's quality, still it should be better than a standard power chord right? and from what I understand, power chords are quite durable and a pre owned chord in good condition should not be an issue?

appreciate the insights.

 

[Nikhil]

This thread is going to go to south very soon as there is a strong opinion by several members that cables don't matter. I happen to be in the "Cables Do Matter" camp.

In fact since you are looking at high end gear - quite frankly everything matters. Any little change you make to your setup will affect the sound one way or another. What differs is the extent to which the change takes place. In my setup power cords made a much bigger difference when used without power treatment. After installing an APC UPS with Sine wave generator changing power cables made less of a difference.

 

[sidvee]

Yes I concur with Nikhil, be prepared for the thread to become a lightning rod of posts mostly "Against" rather than "For" any improvement with powercords - range of arguments will be they are a marketing ploy, bad power supplies in equipment, improvement can't be measured, What $100 for a power cord - that is day light robbery! (though $2000 for the equipment that needs a better power cord to improve it is not), I can design a better DIY power cord any day rather than any manufacturer - after all it is only wire, etc. etc. I will contribute to the "For" because personally regardless of any arguments, I have heard differences, however my advice rather than listening to any mfr., Fm or rationalist, try them first, if possible, so you can decide for yourself, ultimately that is what matters in this Hobby - Can you hear a difference? rather than speculate based on some pre-concieved or self righteous notions, as a lot of posts in the forum show. Also used powercords are an excellent value as well. Secondly there is no direct correlation between cost and performance - at-least in power cords IMO, some inexpensive ones sound great , and some expensive ones sound unimpressive, so trying out different ones will be the best approach.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[nandac]

Nikhil/sid, thanks for the insights. but there seem to be a whole bunch of them out there. any recommendations based on vfm ?

 

[sidvee]

Nikhil/sid, thanks for the insights. but there seem to be a whole bunch of them out there. any recommendations based on vfm ?

IMO Pangea, Signal Cable and Audio Art are good VFM - these range from $50 - $800. However I found that a $200 shunyata made a lot of difference in my sources, specifically DAC (I believe it is discontinued now - diamondback, usually available used for aprox $100- $125). There are many more out there as well.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[asliarun]

IMO Pangea, Signal Cable and Audio Art are good VFM - these range from $50 - $800. However I found that a $200 shunyata made a lot of difference in my sources, specifically DAC (I believe it is discontinued now - diamondback, usually available used for aprox $100- $125). There are many more out there as well.
Cheers,
Sid

Have you had any experience with hospital grade plugs and plug points? Is it worth doing?

Thanks,
Arun

 

[Nikhil]

Nandac, just to cover all bases start with the humble MX brand which costs Rs 150/-
They are robust and will be handy as a backup cord.

I use an Indian made cord by Mr Murthy of Tools & Trades Bangalore.
He has a variety of cords suited to your system and budget.
The ones I use are in the region Rs 3.5K I think.
He is a friendly guy and usually can give you a cable on approval.

 

[arj]

I was communicating with the owner of a well known Canadian based high end tube amp/speakers company. querying about the qualitative improvement of sq in a tube amp by upgrading the caps to Teflon v-caps, he told me that money would be better spent by buying his power cable which according to him would deliver : "Better sound and lower noise".
..

Dont know which is the amp you are taking about..but for the money my first option would be in upgrading the caps/component as long as there is no void in Warranty..they are permanent changes and only for the better.

Power cords, in my experience, are very system and power supply specific so very difficult to predict without hearing

 

[sidvee]

Have you had any experience with hospital grade plugs and plug points? Is it worth doing?

Thanks,
Arun

Arun,
Some years ago I bought hospital grade Plugs along with 12 ga. wire from Parts express and rolled my own powercords. Did they make a difference? - honestly could not tell. However the plugs gripped the socket very tightly and in my books that was a good thing. However even doing this (not sure if this would be DIY - because all you are doing is buying parts and assembling them), cost about $40 - $50 per cord, so if you can pick up used cords off Audiogon for approx. $100, that would be the way to go. This method is very useful, however, if you want to make custom length cords since most commercially available ones are in standard lengths.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Power chords most certainly matter: they are what a lot of music is about.

(Please accept my gentle dig here in friendly spirit: somehow I find that 'h' creeping into my spelling too!)

nandac, we have a recent thread on this, which was based in sanity, not pink-cloud stuff. From it, you can find out that power cords can make a difference, but, if they do, something is wrong with the cord or with the power supply section of the amplifier. We had, especially, the benefit of professional engineering input on this, but you can find similar information elsewhere on the web.

So... buy a faulty amplifier and enjoy the wonderful world of expensive power leads!

There you go. Thread gone south! :lol:

It is always good to use quality plugs, sockets, cables. Contact area and grip matter. And such things might be helpfull in not burning your house down, which is a big bonus


~

 

[Santy]

I think since there is nothing that audiophiles would mutually agree upon, it makes sense to have two parallel threads for two different camps.

This one should be dedicated for those who believe it makes a difference and the other one for those still in bewilderment.

I am suggesting so, so that we do not accidentally hurt the sentiments of each other by the philosophies or theories we believe in. I for one have no such intentions. Finally what we hear matters not what we read. So if power cord makes difference for someone, they should be glad it did.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

They do not care if they hurt our sentiments :lol: so let all have equal opportunity!

I have an [relatively] expensive power chord for my amp. Not only do I not find a difference, but it has the worst grip of any iec connector I have ever known. Really, I should chuck it --- but hey, it cost!

 

[jls001]

This one should be dedicated for those who believe it makes a difference and the other one for those still in bewilderment.

What is life without some fireworks? Without some spice? Without flat earthers and round earthers? Without big endians and small endians? Without power cable believers and non-believers?:lol:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

HiFiVision

<--- Those With Faith

Those Without Faith --->


hyeah:
​

~

 

[square_wave]

So... buy a faulty amplifier and enjoy the wonderful world of expensive power leads!



~

2 Big questions will still remain

Are all equipment in which you can hear differences with power cords designed incorrectly ?

Are all equipment in which you cannot hear differences with power cords designed correctly ?

-----------------------------Huge can of worms !!-----------------------------------------------

 

[Santy]

HiFiVision

<--- Those With Faith

Those Without Faith --->


hyeah:
​

Do the arrows match

​

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Are all equipment in which you can hear differences with power cords designed incorrectly ?

Are all equipment in which you cannot hear differences with power cords designed correctly ?

Well, perhaps some would say so.

I often hear that one should have an open mind, and I agree. I suppose I have been through two stages on this one:

1. I used to "believe." I used to eagerly await magazines and catalogues, and wonder what I could afford.

2. I started reading what engineers and designers have to say on the subject --- and lost my faith .

Now, which of those two phase constitutes "open mind?"

<---Spend Save--->​

Beautiful

 

[jagdish_p]

2 Big questions will still remain

Are all equipment in which you can hear differences with power cords designed incorrectly ?

Are all equipment in which you cannot hear differences with power cords designed correctly ?

-----------------------------Huge can of worms !!-----------------------------------------------

Case 1 : The designers have normal ears and not golden ears and could not fine tune the power chord design
Case 2: If you can not hear the difference after changing the power chord then your system is not sensitive enough. Its time you invested more money in better and higher end equipment. This should continue till you start hearing the improvement with power chord change

 

[asliarun]

Arun,
Some years ago I bought hospital grade Plugs along with 12 ga. wire from Parts express and rolled my own powercords. Did they make a difference? - honestly could not tell. However the plugs gripped the socket very tightly and in my books that was a good thing. However even doing this (not sure if this would be DIY - because all you are doing is buying parts and assembling them), cost about $40 - $50 per cord, so if you can pick up used cords off Audiogon for approx. $100, that would be the way to go. This method is very useful, however, if you want to make custom length cords since most commercially available ones are in standard lengths.
Cheers,
Sid

Thanks, Sid. I actually think $100 is reasonable for a well built power cord. Decent quality extension boards cost upwards of $50 nowadays as well.

I've always had a concern with high power equipment - especially like Class A amps, that a big achilles heel is the plug point (besides the wire). The female/male connectors should be built well, should be copper, and the wiring should be done with care. Too many switchboards are flimsily built and wired, and in many cases, the copper contacts could do with improvement as well.

Nandac, sorry, hope I am not taking this too off topic.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

You are very right about the wiring issues in general. I don't think that an extension unit with built-in surge protection is cheap, and I would want one of those (or even a UPS, which I don't currently have) between my hifi and the mains power.

If we touch on paranoia, actually, we in this country have reason to. I've written elsewhere about finding 440v at my outlets due to a fault in the street! I doubt that this could ever have happened in the other country where I spent much of my life, as one house there is almost never connected to more than one phase.

I would have thought that the cost of a sufficiently well-spedded and built cable should be nearer $10.

All that is just basic common safety sense. Protection of ourselves, our equipment, our property. The rest is ...something else.

Nandac: if the supplier of this amps thinks it would benefit from an expensive power cord (wHoops, nearly typed an H in the word) then play safe and buy somewhere else.