Power Chord

[keith_correa]

Anyway, what do I, a bottom dwelling pseudophile, know about such things?

Now this is a word that I object to. Mods, off with his head. And I don't care if that word is self directed. I just don't like the word!! Besides, it's not in the dictionary :lol:

 

[Santy]

The problem in using such words which are otherwise harmless (and humourous too) is when they appear to be sarcastically directed to some other FMs participating in the same or similar thread, target their opinion or suggestion indirectly or its too generalised (like all those who spend x money on cables are fools) or when it criticizes the nature of our own forum in totality. Many of the times, mods spring into action probably because somebody reported a post to be offensive or insulting. Given the nature of this hobby of ours ie subjectiveness, tolerance levels are usually high as far as I have seen and I am sure it will continue to remain so.

 

[ranjeetrain]

There is one side to this story that mostly goes uncaught.

When the self proclaimed audiophiles go around ridiculing others' choices and even pouring insults over people in mild terms questioning their experience, ownership history of golden ears, weight of their wallet etc., no one catches them. Apparently people who own expensive cables (or other stuff) are allowed to hurl mild insults at those who don't own equally expensive components. Isn't it so?

This forum has a number of posts where people who own expensive components can be seen judging others' trying to belittle them or their choice of components, even questioning their hearing and experience. I suppose mods don't notice those posts!? Or are they supposed to overlook those? Or are they supposed to act ONLY when a post gets reported? Some transparency would help. Because in current scenario the timing of mods' intervention certainly makes them appear unjust.

 

[Ambio]

Did I miss anything? Anyone care to summarize? Am not sure why Mr Mod is calling this hobby subjective. Subjective in what sense? Correct sound is subjective? Or hearing things that do not exist subjective? Good sound may be subjective. What is the objective of this forum? I am aware of the advertisements of various high end products here. I may endorse some of them. That's business. They say that you will hear extended bass. That is true. But they are not telling that you won't hear extended bass with your cheap cable unlike audiophiles.

Is this forum about High fidelity or about someone's lifestyle and personal belief?Why not this be a healthy forum? Audiophilia is real and we are the victims.

It is okay to talk about personal experience regarding a product but to promote a product in the guise of an innocent purchaser who happens to own a certain brand that made his system to do what could not be true is plain wrong. I am aware of a dealer joining this forum and asked what looked like an innocent question. The motive was to promote a certain brand. I got no problem if someone markets his product and speaks of fairy tales capabilities of them. But that's marketing puff and acceptable to a certain extent.

Good sound starts with correct sound. It starts with good room, good speakers and positioning. The ratio given by audiophiles is bs. It is only relevant for style and fashion but not for high fidelity.

Power cords will never able to do what the basic free room acoustics could do. I may endorse a cable but that is based on facts. Why it becomes offensive to anyone when I say a cheap cable is as good as their's because it makes no difference? That is based on experience and scientific research to back it up. Both issues can be ventilated fairly in this forum. But when one after taking a stand and when he couldn't back it up resorts to " it is subjective" or " I know what I hear" then that too must be explained. Is this a symptom of someone being audiophilia?

 

[jls001]

Now this is a word that I object to.

Bottom dwelling part, right? Yeah, the ground is muddy down there, but the water is surprisingly clear of audiophile pretensions or paraphernalia

To the best of my understanding, the term "audiophile" is now used mostly, at its best, in the mildly derogatory sense, and worst, in the derisive sense of the word. Is this because we tend to make too fine a point, obsess endlessly over near-indistinguishable differences in performances of gears, have unbending views on all things audio, don't have time to listen to music anymore but spends lots of leisure hours hearing audio, generally view others who are not in the same boat condescendingly, spend way too much on audio gear, believe only in one audio sect and think the rest are headed for audio purgatory?

 

[madbullram]

@ALL: Can we stop discussing all other things and focus on the original topic? If this continues, I will be forced to lock this thread.

 

[dheerajin]

MOD..with due respect....this thread was derailed long ago...now when talk is going on in some real terms and everyone has got the place to express their point of view in healthy manner , so there is no point in locking the thread IMO.
Afterall its your wish..

 

[keith_correa]

@ALL: Can we stop discussing all other things and focus on the original topic? If this continues, I will be forced to lock this thread.

M.B.R. - Chill! Or aren't you allowed to? This is just self-deprecating humour directed towards us and towards the Mods too. It's all in good spirit. Aren't we allowed to laugh at ourselves? Like the "Joker" says - Why so serious?

 

[Santy]

Subjective in what sense? Correct sound is subjective?

Try defining what is correct sound, you will answer your own question. If you can show the objective measurements and convince all audiophiles about your conclusions (and sell your products simply based on it), then you can consider it as a feat. What you prove to be correct sound through measurements may still not appeal to many out there. Plenty of reviews use subjective words like imaging, sweet, involving, coloured etc and I believe there are no physical parameters to directly measure them. How many of us would blindly go for an upgrade just because it measures well? Well, very few I guess. I myself give great emphasis on measurements but I understand that while sound can be entirely measured, musicality cannot be. After all, its an emotional connect. So that is where subjectivenes come into play. Its about what people perceive as musical.

If someone buys an expensive power cord, it means he could afford it, he can hear a difference and he is happy. What else matters?

 

[dheerajin]

Anyone has asnswer for Ranjeetrain's post?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

If someone buys an expensive power cord, it means he could afford it, he can hear a difference and he is happy. What else matters?

The law. Except it seldom bothers. Nice to see it did, in the case of claims made by Russ Andrews.

 

[manoj.p]

Bottom dwelling part, right?

To the best of my understanding, the term "audiophile" is now used mostly, at its best, in the mildly derogatory sense, and worst, in the derisive sense of the word. Is this because we tend to make too fine a point, obsess endlessly over near-indistinguishable differences in performances of gears, have unbending views on all things audio, don't have time to listen to music anymore but spends lots of leisure hours hearing audio, generally view others who are not in the same boat condescendingly, spend way too much on audio gear, believe only in one audio sect and think the rest are headed for audio purgatory?

yes, I have seen the word "Audiophile" also used in the same way as calling someone a "nerd". More so, because Audiophiles are actually loving their equipment more than audio itself. They go into nitty gritty details about cables, power conditioners, connectors and all weird things. A normal person on other hand, will enjoy music even on a simplest system like their phone or a transistor radio. Now, people say its not hi-fidelity. Sure. But then you are actually talking about equipment at this point. Its like sitting down for a dinner and saying, I am missing some hint of pepper or turmeric, oh now the aromas are not so great. What's worst is, take a look at spoons and forks and say this is not the right silverware, I can't enjoy this food. Now, if the silverware was from so and so brand, food would just melt in your mouth, you will have right aromas, your taste buds will be dancing and different tastes would appear at right places in your mouth. That's audiophilia. Borderline OCD.

 

[Santy]

This forum has a number of posts where people who own expensive components can be seen judging others' trying to belittle them or their choice of components, even questioning their hearing and experience. I suppose mods don't notice those posts!? Or are they supposed to overlook those? Or are they supposed to act ONLY when a post gets reported? Some transparency would help.

Before MBR proceeds to lock the thread rolleyes

Again, the answer could be in the question itself. Might have gone unnoticed. Mods are not omnipresent. Sometimes, however a hot topic gets continuously monitored, but not all threads in this forum. We assure you that nobody in this forum has a right to ridicule other FMs irrespective of how rich or senior or seasoned or an expert they are. While we will be watching out for such posts, anyone can easily report them. Takes a few seconds I believe.

 

[Ambio]

Try defining what is correct sound, you will answer your own question. If you can show the objective measurements and convince all audiophiles about your conclusions (and sell your products simply based on it), then you can consider it as a feat. What you prove to be correct sound through measurements may still not appeal to many out there. Plenty of reviews use subjective words like imaging, sweet, involving, coloured etc and I believe there are no physical parameters to directly measure them. How many of us would blindly go for an upgrade just because it measures well? Well, very few I guess.........?

We are on the same side.

You said:-

What you prove to be correct sound through measurements may still not appeal to many out there.

Me said:-

Good sound may be subjective

.

But if MrX who got money and bought a cable and compared that to a mogami cable, which i bought after extensive listening, then I got a problem. If his cable is better than mine than I want to know why because I heard both side by side and I couldn't tell the difference. I have done my audiogram and there is nothing wrong with my hearing. The only difference is my cable and equipment are cheap.

However, the sound is as good if not better. Shouldn't I object to MrX's endorsement of his cable against mine? And I am relying on measurements to prove he is wrong.

Buying on specs should be encouraged and regularly practised by many in normal world. What would you say to a person who is insisting his Honda Vious is more powerful than a BMW because he can feel it and do not belive in measuremnts?

This is not about music. Music is subjective like taste. This is about the truth. This is like someone telling you that his Thika taste better than others becuase they use imported water from France.

The point that I am desperately trying to make is if you know the product then you may hear things that aren't there. How many here dare to guess a word spoken in a video which would prove that if the same word heard with you eyes shut you would hear them differently. In fact, there is a part of our brain known as ? where we attach size, colour, price to an object to associate them to be superior.

 

[keith_correa]

I change my mind now - people are stirring the pot. I'm out.

 

[dheerajin]

I change my mind now - people are stirring the pot. I'm out.

Keith..you are right on your point..but i dont think they are stirring the pot....because this thread has become pefectly right cauldron to spread their masalas ...

 

[jls001]

Anyone has asnswer for Ranjeetrain's post?

Actually the reverse is also true - many boasts of how good their cheap gears sound. Nothing wrong with it, per se. But things start to go wrong when these folks start disparaging against the costly choices of their brethren manning the opposing side of the divide. The 'costly' guys are more civil in at least not directly poohpoohing the 'el cheapos' (used here in the best sense of the word). The latter are, however, much more vocal in their condemnation of the former. For proof, just review similar threads on this very forum.

It takes two hands to clap. Both are equally guilty of fanning the flames of these internecine skirmishes. And there's no end in sight, either. The reason is plain and simple, as oft quoted by arj about the trepidation of fanatics and the timidity of wise men.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The 'costly' people often use very much lower-price equipment in systems for other rooms, office, etc. With most of the hardware, there is very much less of a hard-line divide. I don't even know that everybody here with a "high-end" system would have spent anything on power cables.

I think somebody already said that the "el cheapos" may also be scrabbling to improve their not-so-costly systems with input from the cable guy's marketing spiels.

Give me a crore to spend on hifi and the very last thing I'd do is scream "But all DACs and Amplifers sound the same!" But I'd use standard power cables and order the rest from Blue Jeans. Speaker cables with ultrasonically-welded connectors... Mmmmmm We all have our weaknesses :lol:

 

[dheerajin]

Jls001, if you can read this thread carefully , you will get to know, where this thing started.I think no one has problem with expensive cables.their money they can spend it anywhere they want. But if someone says expensive cables makes difference and you dont have courage and conviction to experience it, then what will you say. Only thing that you can laugh on them because you know basic science of electricity and they dont.Its plain marketing stuff IMO.there are lot of guys , who owns expensive cables but dont load their thoughts on others because they dont have to sell their knowledge. So whatever ranjeetrain has said is very much true and he is not talking out of the blue, he has sensed something after reading this thread.
In all the threads wherever i have contributed, i dont want new comers or audio enthusiasts to fall into this fake cable business, so for their information, I use hard words. I can understand the importance of interconnects to improve the sound , because of capacitance and have to avoid noise by means of shielding.But for speaker cables and power cables and connectors I use hard word again- there is a difference in education and literacy [emoji2]
This post was not to offend anyone .
If one feels offended, then one can also voice their opinion but to report my post.

 

[captrajesh]

While we will be watching out for such posts, anyone can easily report them. Takes a few seconds I believe.

It is too much to expect that mods (the policemen) would monitor and watch each and every thread. The responsibility also vests with each and every member. All it takes is to click the 'Report Post' button which I'm sure (most of) the members seldom do.