Power Cords - Source Components - Do they make a differance ??

[suri]

Would Ayre, for example, when charging 10,000 dollars for a CD player, have found it difficult to add a 500$ power cord if they felt the need?

one of my friends and i will be opening a scarlatti system soon - and i will make note of what power cord is in the box - or, perhaps, there will not be a power cord and we are expected to buy a suitable one? - let us see.

 

[Dr.Bass]

True, an amplifier uses AC power and there the quality of cord could make a difference. But in something like a CD player where only DC is used, it should not make too much of a difference.

You know the funny thing? The human eye can more easily identify noise and disturbance compared to the ear. Yet, we do not seem to be so worried about connecting the TV using a special power cord. Why simply because it does not make too much difference as the TV makes use of SMPS that handles all these issues. A DVD Player should send badly disturbed images to the screen which is easily discernible.

Take case of a PC. Where each and every but is important, we resolve the issue most times by routing power through an UPS. If power cord could make so much difference, I should be reading HiFi Vision as 'FiHi Sivion' or something. But that hardly happens. Take a printer for example. It should actually be printing junk all the time if power cords could make a difference.

Why do we make so much noise about power cords in an audio system alone? If the designers of these systems realised the issue, I am sure they would taken care to ensure that only clean power reaches their units. Or at least, warn/advise the users as to what is to be done. Would Ayre, for example, when charging 10,000 dollars for a CD player, have found it difficult to add a 500$ power cord if they felt the need? Why would they take the chance of adding a cheapo cord and spoil their reputation? The cord they have used, I am sure, would have been chosen as the best and most justifiable for the player. If they had seen value in a more expensive cord and found it to make a large or sizeable difference to the sound quality, I am sure they would not have hesitated to consider that. If they have cut corners in something as simple as s a power cord, there is something amiss with their design/thought process.

Cheers

You know what, the day you hear a good system and realize what a good power cord can do, I am wondering how would you handle that situation !!!
You have already brought in Printers, Mixers, Grinders into picture. What will you write to rollback all your valid arguments ? Lets talk about Microwave Oven now:yahoo:

 

[arj]

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Why do we make so much noise about power cords in an audio system alone? If the designers of these systems realised the issue, I am sure they would taken care to ensure that only clean power reaches their units. Or at least, warn/advise the users as to what is to be done. Would Ayre, for example, when charging 10,000 dollars for a CD player, have found it difficult to add a 500$ power cord if they felt the need? Why would they take the chance of adding a cheapo cord and spoil their reputation? The cord they have used, I am sure, would have been chosen as the best and most justifiable for the player. If they had seen value in a more expensive cord and found it to make a large or sizeable difference to the sound quality, I am sure they would not have hesitated to consider that. If they have cut corners in something as simple as s a power cord, there is something amiss with their design/thought process.

Cheers

Hi venkat, there is theory and there is theory..but the truth would be based on what you hear...so in all sincerity there is no sense in discussing this as there always have and always would be 2 camps. if you have tried different cables and heard no difference then that IS the truth for you ! the same for those who have heard a difference.

in the end we are all in the hobby of getting the best possible sound..and the "path" may be different but the end is the same.

BTW one of the PCs I have does a great job with my TV but collapses the soundstage when used on my transport ! Dr B was there when we tried it on my system.

 

[suri]

BTW one of the PCs I have does a great job with my TV but collapses the soundstage when used on my transport ! Dr B was there when we tried it on my system.

hi arj,
the issue of "clean"/"good" power supply for audio equipment is very real, and "bad" power supplied can kill off any meaningful attempt by superior equipment at reproduction.

power generators/conditioners are very important links in the chain - and can make a huge difference to the satisfaction of listening to a good system - and, likewise - just plugging in the power cord to a mains outlet and supplying "dirty" power (volts and amps) can have the person crying in no time. The power supply must have the capacity for instant surges of current, but voltage must remain constant at correct frequency (as far as AC supply is concerned)

the next issue - the contact points at the power supply (live/neutral) and at the audio equipment end - power must flow seamlessly at these contacts and it is here, i think, that expensive power cables make a difference - if adequate pressure can be applied at these contacts (which must be of the same metal), perhaps by way of clamps, this aim may be achieved - standard power connectors may not do a good job of achieving adequate contact at the live/neutral points, and (god forbid) sparking could occur - this spells the end of listening nirvana!

the next issue - the contact between the pins and the conducting wire inside the plugs - again, here, expensive power cables will be made in such a way that the contacts are 'gas-tight' and immune to degradation.

but the cable itself? - i do not know if there is basis for using anything other than good quality copper of correct AWG.

regds
suri

 

[unleash_me]

If a good pc can show its glories only in a high end system, wonder why these high end system manufactures with their million dollar R&D teams figure out ways to fix this internally with may be uber quality filters (?) before releasing it. In my case, McIntosh advised me to stick with the stock pc. I have heard similar experiences from folks who contacted the likes of REL, Byrston etc., to stick with the stock cables for the best performance.

Oh and for the curious lot, here is something to chew on.

Peace.

 

[square_wave]

Even I was wondering, how come two persons having the same set of power cords, using media server with dCS, having as many CDs and living in Mumbai hyeah:!!!




Sir, no taking names...pleeeeeese:lol:

Ok, the mystery is solved

I was taken aback by the newbie questions though hyeah:

 

[Rajiv]

Nice to see all the old guys here too. I could not get my original 'moniker' some one had taken it, but never uses it !! Strange...

Hi,

Bhagwan(GOD) knows why.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[arj]

but the cable itself? - i do not know if there is basis for using anything other than good quality copper of correct AWG.

regds
suri

Hi suri, murali had mentioned some of the important effects (skin effect etc)
The cross-section and layout of wires in a cable is also known to have an effect (no of strands per wire and its cross section) as well as the kind of di-electric as insulation, kind of shielding etc etc.

I have really no clue on the science behind it. but many years back had actually stumbled on a paper which actually drew a frequecy curve for different cables. ( ie you the total impedance varied with frequency) as the L,C and R are all different and L/C cause the impedance to vary differently with change in frequency.
Maybe, that is what makes the difference ?

 

[suri]

Hi suri, murali had mentioned some of the important effects (skin effect etc)
The cross-section and layout of wires in a cable is also known to have an effect (no of strands per wire and its cross section) as well as the kind of di-electric ass insulation. kind of shielding etc etc.

I have really no clue on the science behind it. but many years back had actually stumbled on a paper which actually drew a frequecy curve for different cables. ( ie you the total impedance varied with frequency) as the L,C and R are all different and L/C cause the impedance to vary differently with change in frequency.
Maybe, that is what makes the difference ?

hi arj,

all the above mentioned points (skin effect and shielding included) should be something to think about when designing low voltage connections between audio equipment ( such as ICs and speaker cables).

but at 220 volts, the insulation only serves as a guarantee that the audiophile user is not electrocuted and delivered at the lotus feet!

regds
suri

 

[arj]

but at 220 volts, the insulation only serves as a guarantee that the audiophile user is not electrocuted and delivered at the lotus feet!

its ironical that that is exactly where one expects to be with a perfect system hyeah:

 

[suri]

its ironical that that is exactly where one expects to be with a perfect system hyeah:

hehheheehheee!

 

[venkatcr]

hehheheehheee!

I am sure Gobble must be turning green with envy. 'Lotus Feet?', and what a choice, either sell your shirt or get electrocuted. Gawd, you are terrible, Mr. Suri.

Cheers

 

[square_wave]

For some strange reasons, I tend to hear more differences in sound while changing power cords or for that matter if I do anything in connection with power supply in general than when I change from a decent interconnect to a hi-end one.

I sometimes think it is "power" that you finally get to hear provided your system is resolving enough.

But I tend to agree with others that a resolving system need to be assembled first before you play around with power or power cords. There is no guarantee that a hi end power cord that works in your friend's system will do the same thing in your system. A different one may work better.

One very frustrating aspect of playing around with power cords and cables in general is that the science is not very straight forward. It is a strange concoction of black magic and engineering. This makes this a very murky area. You have peddlers who specialize on working on your psyche. If you do not know what you are getting into, your wallet will be very very light soon. However, if you have a good circle of audiophile friends where you can circulate cords and try them out yourself, it is very much worth it.

Tread with care ! From what I hear, the market is flooded with power cords which are designed to accentuate or attenuate certain virtues or flaws in audio gear. This helps with the sales. But this also means that you will have to change your cords once you change your gear.

 

[bhagwan]

For some strange reasons, I tend to hear more differences in sound while changing power cords or for that matter if I do anything in connection with power supply in general than when I change from a decent interconnect to a hi-end one.

I sometimes think it is "power" that you finally get to hear provided your system is resolving enough.

But I tend to agree with others that a resolving system need to be assembled first before you play around with power or power cords. There is no guarantee that a hi end power cord that works in your friend's system will do the same thing in your system. A different one may work better.

the market is flooded with power cords which are designed to accentuate or attenuate certain virtues or flaws in audio gear. This helps with the sales. But this also means that you will have to change your cords once you change your gear.

I may be 'shot' for saying this. But Audiophiles use 'passive' eq's in the form of Cables [power & other wise] to do the job of what an active eq may do... hyeah:

 

[square_wave]

I may be 'shot' for saying this. But Audiophiles use 'passive' eq's in the form of Cables [power & other wise] to do the job of what an active eq may do... hyeah:

Agree with you.

I guess passive eq's like cords/cables are not so far reaching or significant like active eq's. I guess all parameters like the room environment and speaker placement makes a bigger difference to the final sound. Hence all these variables are very pardonable in the "big picture".

I have a friend who is into active eq's. He swears by them and will not have his system setup in any other way.

All these are part of the fun !

 

[shaizada]

Power cables are not just mere wire to get your system to turn on.

THEY ARE A FULL AND COMPLETE COMPONENT equal OR can even be greater in importance than individual components.

This is just a seed of knowledge, now you get to plant and nurture the whole tree.

 

[arj]

Agree with you.

I guess passive eq's like cords/cables are not so far reaching or significant like active eq's. I guess all parameters like the room environment and speaker placement makes a bigger difference to the final sound. Hence all these variables are very pardonable in the "big picture".

I have a friend who is into active eq's. He swears by them and will not have his system setup in any other way.

All these are part of the fun !

I though what Shanti was meaning were "active Power" products like Power Regenerators... ? ..or maybe I got it wrong

 

[suri]

I may be 'shot' for saying this. But Audiophiles use 'passive' eq's in the form of Cables [power & other wise] to do the job of what an active eq may do... hyeah:

hi shanti,

it is difficult enough to get a closely matched pair of transducers - it is usually only the most expensive lines that can give you a pair which are closely matched as far as their electrical parameters and performance are concerned - no two spiders are the same!

to go active would be a mixed bag - with great power comes great variation - you might end up with great slam and high spl - but, (i think) for true finesse, as of today, minimal passive cross-overs in a two-way with high quality transducers is still the way to go.

regds

 

[shaizada]

Oh no, not another cable thread.

1. Power cords only connect the component to a wall socket, and as long as they are of sufficient guage to fulfill the maximum current demand, they will work fine, and nothing else matters, so probably everyone who thinks otherwise is hearing things.

Respectfully disagree with this...different types of power cords have different sounds as you are changing many attributes such as capacitance, impedance, dielectric strength, shielding etc.

I can make day and night differences with simple power cord changes in my system...

 

[unleash_me]

At 7AWG and 450 individual conductors, this sure live up to the name atleast! The elder brother, although the naming convention is slightly off the mark, looks even monstrous at 5AWG and 600 individual conductors. This could probably even pull down the equipment by accident!