Preamp for Active speakers

[matbhuvi]

Got a Neumann KH120 active monitors. Even though it sounds good enough through my Geek Out 720 DAC, i am looking to add a preamp. The purpose is to add ease of volume control, multiple source (and hence save on those cables) and if possible, add some 2nd order harmonic distortion, high frequency roll off a.k.a tube sound. Can anyone recommend decent preamp around $500 from USoA.

 

[GeorgeO]

Transcendent Sound sells their Grounded Grid kit for $499 its very easy to assemble. ve had one for 10 years and love it.

 

[dheerajin]

Got a Neumann KH120 active monitors. Even though it sounds good enough through my Geek Out 720 DAC, i am looking to add a preamp. The purpose is to add ease of volume control, multiple source (and hence save on those cables) and if possible, add some 2nd order harmonic distortion, high frequency roll off a.k.a tube sound. Can anyone recommend decent preamp around $500 from USoA.

Why dont you get PASS B1(check in DIY section), it is very praised pre amp nowadays.

cheers

Dheeraj

 

[Shivam]

Make a simple passive preamp using Dact volume controller and selector.

 

[hydra]

Matbhuvi: Micro – iTube

This review has a lot of info about it: Inner Magazine - iFi iTube - buffer/preamp

$299 on Music Direct.

It will be well within your budget, and the tube buffer makes it sound very nice. I've listened to it and it is pretty good.

 

[Santy]

@matbhuvi
Do you really need a preamp?
Passive volume control with input selector is the way to go I believe.

You may consider this as well. Not used but it has got good reviews in the pro world. I have it on my wishlist on amazon.
Amazon.com: SM Pro Audio M-Patch V2 Monitor Controller: Musical Instruments

It has got one balanced and one unbalanced input with separate volume controls.. It also converts the unbalanced input into balanced output.. Comes with two encoders, a continuous and a stepped attenuator.. Works with or without power.

I have an Emotiva Control Freak and it works great too. Ofcourse only one input here as well.

https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak

 

[Fantastic]

Passive volume with direct switched inputs should be OK provided that suitable precautions are taken to keep crosstalk to a minimum and the selector switch is from a good brand . Interconnects should also be relatively short. Large capacitance and cross talk will kill the SQ.
Relay switched is probably better.

But never forget to try out an active preamp ( or buffer) . It could sometimes give you surprising results. It's not about which is 'perfect' , it's all about which end result your ears like !

I remember hearing a Mark Levinson preamp in circuit compared with the preamp out of circuit. While the preamp had a very flat frequency response , for some reason there was more bass extension with the preamp. It was never determined what caused that ! The load on the source changes with or without the preamp and depending on the 'impedance' interaction , it might sometimes help to have a preamp or an active buffer. Try them out.

Tube preamps. Not all sound the same and saying 'tube sound' may not describe what you might hear. For some people who think that tubes sound rounded off in the HF and so sound soft might be surprised to hear well designed tube preamps sounding extremely clear and bright and not soft or rounded off in any way. You never can say what something sounds like until you have tried it in your own system ! Might sound great at your place and terrible elsewhere ! It's a lottery !

 

[iaudio]

What about something like the Lyrita DHT pre? Our forum members seem to be quite happy with the performance.

 

[hemantwaghe]

Make a simple passive preamp using Dact volume controller and selector.

can you show any links? pls as I found all are ( except Schitt) for USD 300 ++

 

[Fantastic]

Not Schitt but Schiit !

 

[Pandamaudio]

Got a Neumann KH120 active monitors. Even though it sounds good enough through my Geek Out 720 DAC, i am looking to add a preamp. The purpose is to add ease of volume control, multiple source (and hence save on those cables) and if possible, add some 2nd order harmonic distortion, high frequency roll off a.k.a tube sound. Can anyone recommend decent preamp around $500 from USoA.

Since you have professional speakers, take a look at the Australian ARX MixxMaker with an inbuilt USB Audio Interface (DAC) and also Bluetooth Audio Interface. Quite an interesting new product. It does not have any wireless remote control unfortunately, but other features are superb.
MIXX series multi channel 1 RU mic and line mixers

 

[matbhuvi]

Transcendent Sound sells their Grounded Grid kit for $499 its very easy to assemble. ve had one for 10 years and love it.

Looks pretty interesting. There are cheaper versions of Grounded Grid kit from ebay for the same design as well. But, i am a complete noob in DIY. May be some other time.

Why dont you get PASS B1(check in DIY section), it is very praised pre amp nowadays.

cheers

Dheeraj

Make a simple passive preamp using Dact volume controller and selector.

I don't want to go for DIY for my first pre. Will definitely invest some time down the line.

Matbhuvi: Micro iTube

That is pretty interesting. It is my first choice as of now.

@matbhuvi
Do you really need a preamp?
Passive volume control with input selector is the way to go I believe.

I considered that route. Shiit, emotiva has passive preamp for $49 using a simple 10k attenuator. I might need a amplification. Converting the unbalanced to balanced seems to be pretty interesting. Need to read about it.

 

[matbhuvi]

Passive volume with direct switched inputs should be OK provided that suitable precautions are taken to keep crosstalk to a minimum and the selector switch is from a good brand . Interconnects should also be relatively short. Large capacitance and cross talk will kill the SQ.
Relay switched is probably better.

But never forget to try out an active preamp ( or buffer) . It could sometimes give you surprising results. It's not about which is 'perfect' , it's all about which end result your ears like !

I remember hearing a Mark Levinson preamp in circuit compared with the preamp out of circuit. While the preamp had a very flat frequency response , for some reason there was more bass extension with the preamp. It was never determined what caused that ! The load on the source changes with or without the preamp and depending on the 'impedance' interaction , it might sometimes help to have a preamp or an active buffer. Try them out.

Tube preamps. Not all sound the same and saying 'tube sound' may not describe what you might hear. For some people who think that tubes sound rounded off in the HF and so sound soft might be surprised to hear well designed tube preamps sounding extremely clear and bright and not soft or rounded off in any way. You never can say what something sounds like until you have tried it in your own system ! Might sound great at your place and terrible elsewhere ! It's a lottery !

Pretty wise words. I might not have fully understood what you said. But, it seems to me that you are also recommending something like iTube which has an active buffer.

Interconnects are another pain. Neumann KH120 supports balanced xlr only. I have to use an adapter to convert XLR to RCA effectively making them unbalanced. My DAC is also not balanced. It is indeed throwing many dizzying challenges for me to decide on quality interconnect.

 

[matbhuvi]

What about something like the Lyrita DHT pre? Our forum members seem to be quite happy with the performance.

Lyrita DHT pre was indeed brilliant. I enjoyed it during the Chennai HiFi meet

 

[cyber_cat]

I would suggest you look at monitor controllers or audio interfaces for your monitors. Please do not use consumer level pre-amps for studio monitors such as these.

I would look into options suggested by Santy, pandamaudio. If I am not mistaken our fellow member baghwan has or had a passive monitor controller (forget the name).

Personally, I would suggest you go in for a good audio interface for playback. It will you save you a lot of trouble of having wires going from source to pre-amp to monitors plus they will be gain matched.

Cheers.

 

[omishra]

I can see you monitors have XLR type input because interconnects will be running longer from preamp (or source) to speakers. [unbalanced interconnects are prone to noise for longer distances.] This needs balanced connection which could reduce impact of noise on line level signal. So consider this thing for preamp selection. Also you need it to be good quality as lot of electronics will be involved. Otherwise you may need to invest into unbalanced-balanced converters at preamp (or source) output. Buffer with no gain or simple volume control without impedance matching may not serve good. For best results you should look for balanced connections.

People can suggest thinking on above points.

I referenced this link.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Got a Neumann KH120 active monitors...

Wow. Do tell more about it!

I can see you monitors have XLR type input because interconnects will be running longer from preamp (or source) to speakers. [unbalanced interconnects are prone to noise for longer distances.] This needs balanced connection which could reduce impact of noise on line level signal.

It is not just that. Nearfield monitors will usually not have very long speaker cables --- but it is quite likely that they will have balanced connections. The expect to be fed from pro kit that also has balanced connections. One key thing: the signal level is quite a lot higher on balanced, pro connections.

Balanced and unbalanced can be mix/matched, but give your speakers the best chance with a proper balanced feed.

I guess the Geek OUt is not going to give that? I guess that also want to use the Geek out? Hmmm...

 

[matbhuvi]

I can see you monitors have XLR type input because interconnects will be running longer from preamp (or source) to speakers. [unbalanced interconnects are prone to noise for longer distances.] This needs balanced connection which could reduce impact of noise on line level signal. So consider this thing for preamp selection. Also you need it to be good quality as lot of electronics will be involved. Otherwise you may need to invest into unbalanced-balanced converters at preamp (or source) output. Buffer with no gain or simple volume control without impedance matching may not serve good. For best results you should look for balanced connections.

People can suggest thinking on above points.

I referenced this link.

What i am planning is to have small cable (like 1ft or smaller) to connect the DAC and pre. Then cable of 3 to 4 ft to connect the pre and speakers. As it is near field listening, i don't need longer cables. My assumption is, i might not need balanced setup for short interconnects. I'll try to invest in good interconnects. The only problem comes when i try to convert RCA to XLR. Most of them are balanced. I tried a blue jeans cable, and i got no sound. Looks like it got cancelled when using balanced cable in unbalanced setup. I believe it comes to how the XLR is wired. XLR cables have lower capacitance than RCA at the same price. That is one advantage of XLR it seems.

 

[matbhuvi]

Wow. Do tell more about it!

I had my budget for around $500-600. But, got a mint used one of KH120 and 60% of msrp and couldn't pass it up. I was about to buy the Adam A7 from the same seller. Some one booked it ahead of me. Having exposure to couple of HiFi meets in Chennai where we had the luxury of listening to Genelec, KEF LS50 and many other high end speakers, i can safely say that this one can really scale up in that ranks. What i am surprised about this monitor is completely non-fatigue signature. I was prepared to listen a 'bright' sounding 'studio' monitor. But, this one is definitely not one. It has a neutral response from 60Hz to 16kHz.

The biggest benefit for me is that they are nearfield monitors. I can sit closer to them in the equilateral triangle distance and enjoy them. I don't need to "fill" the room with spl. Ideal for apartment dwellers like me.

It is not just that. Nearfield monitors will usually not have very long speaker cables --- but it is quite likely that they will have balanced connections. The expect to be fed from pro kit that also has balanced connections. One key thing: the signal level is quite a lot higher on balanced, pro connections.

Balanced and unbalanced can be mix/matched, but give your speakers the best chance with a proper balanced feed.

I guess the Geek OUt is not going to give that? I guess that also want to use the Geek out? Hmmm...

The balanced input only caught me off guard. If i am not wrong, balanced input makes sense when we run long cables. I could be wrong. That's what i read.

Geek out is mostly for on the go. I might need a better DAC down the line. Better DAC, better pre, better cables, better acoustic control etc. I am just going by the cost benefit ratio.

The first thing that i got is isoacoustics lsr155 + Atlantic speaker stands. Isoacoustics really making sure that less rumble is going through speaker stands.

My next important items are the pre for volume control and cables. Once this is done, i can go for better DAC.

In our next Chennai HiFi meet, we should compare multiple DACs like we compared speakers. That would be really helpful.

 

[Santy]

You have got one of the finest studio monitors. I am sure you will be happy with them for a long time to come.

I feel the idea that balanced cable matters only for long distance runs is not completely appropriate. If your source is balanced from ground up, you will find quite some difference compared to unbalanced connection on the same system with same cable material (of low capacitance). There won't be any benefit if source is unbalanced and the preamp converts into balanced at the output stage unless it is meant for using long cable runs. This is because this conversion adds another stage in the chain that can have undesirable effects like roll-off and distortion even if implemented well.

I for one have observed a significant difference in imaging, depth and noise floor between unbalanced and balanced connections (10ft). The noise floor is not what some might construe as pink noise or hum but the music level below which the decay of the instruments might get lost. The noise need not always come from outside (RF) but it could be mixed within the source due to ground loops. Degree may vary but that is perfectly tackled in a balanced connection.

I still feel that having two preamps in a system is not really very ideal. Even a buffered preamp could introduce coloration in it. I have tried with Pass-B1 with my active monitors and it did affect the sound though it is touted to be very transparent. The soundstage got shrunken and the vocals became edgy. But the same preamp sounded great when directly paired with a power amp and passive speakers. So I guess its all about synergy.

Studio monitors are designed and meant to sound accurate so it becomes kind of oxymoron if you want tubey sound from it. Ofcourse personal tastes vary and there is nothing wrong in tweaking the monitors to suit one's preferences without bothering about the coloration. The advantage here is, if the source end of the chain is tube based, then the monitors will faithfully reproduce the tubey sound without affecting the tubiness by its own coloration.

If it is for desktop use, then I do not think you will find it terribly inconvenient to adjust volumes on both monitors. If you really need, then I feel you must rather wait untill you can upgrade to a DAC with preamp in it. You must look at something like Audiolab M-DAC (awesome- I heard) and run balanced studio grade cables and you have a great system from end to end. You will still have the problem of multiple inputs but then there are DACs with preamp and analog inputs too though much more expensive than what we are discussing here..