Pune HFV Meet 2010

[askii2]

B&W speaker combo was obviously best of the lot as everyone had agreed. It's good that members got a chance to hear that. The amazing clarity and separation of each and every musical instrument was beyond what can be described in words.

Since we had 60W RMS per channel of power in this combo. Would it be safe to say that 60W of power is all that's required for home listening even for rooms of a large size?

 

[sridhar-v]

I have found that listening to music at moderate volumes is better. There wa a link to a website that calculated SP levels from specs like speaker sensitivity, amp powel & distance. Found that about 25-30 W is sufficient for 70 to 75 db spl. The only drawback at these volumes will be that the speaker crossover should be having either 3rd or 4th order slopes. Will be cross testing this when I check the Lithos in Mumbai.

 

[ontherocks]

What was the brand of rubber stoppers mentioned?

 

[sonosphere]

...
Since we had 60W RMS per channel of power in this combo. Would it be safe to say that 60W of power is all that's required for home listening even for rooms of a large size?

The speaker sensitivity aspect highlighted by Sridhar above, is first step towards knowing whether 60w is enough. Generally speaking, for a speaker as low as 86 dB sensitivity, 60w should be enough to achieve 85dB SPL at 3 mtr in max room size of 16 feet by 20 feet.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sups]

I don't think the "death knell" part would affect any amp except the Norge-2060 price-range of amps to "some extent". Web reports indicate that Topping would shine only with selected Bookshelf speakers. I haven't read anybody say that Topping trounced NAD 315 /Marantz 6001 /CA 340 grade of entry level amps. Hence these will maintain their customers in market.

@Sono: I also believe in the same line. Surprisingly psychotropics famous thread says that nad320+ushers502 sounds better than tp20+ushers502 with the same source. However, I personally feel that nad326 will always have an advantage over tp20, though I am yet to compare back to back.

 

[odyssey]

I have found that listening to music at moderate volumes is better. There wa a link to a website that calculated SP levels from specs like speaker sensitivity, amp powel & distance. Found that about 25-30 W is sufficient for 70 to 75 db spl. The only drawback at these volumes will be that the speaker crossover should be having either 3rd or 4th order slopes. Will be cross testing this when I check the Lithos in Mumbai.

Hi
What does the crossover slope got to do with SPL or for that matter with efficiency?

thanks

 

[Sachin]

double post

 

[Sachin]

Back to demo...

DEMO# 5
After Topping demo, what-next? question threw up Sachin's combo in picture. Sachin had two "almost Vintage" BS speakers, one a KEF, the other a Wharfedale (I forget the exact model nos... Sachin pls post the same). These were to be driven by, again, a vintage amp i.e Luxman L-5 (60w rms per channel) and the only DAC in the meet, the Beresford Caiman.

Request attending members to chip in with their comments on this combo.

Thanks sonosphere for the lovely compilation and the job you are doing for the wellness of this fraternity.

I had KEF CODA Series BS speakers with me, the Wharfy BS were not mine. These KEF are sealed speakers and the drivers are mounted using screws on the front side. Yes, they sounded distorted and could not produce the magic which i have been used to while playing the same combo at my place, i presume they got hurt while shifting or during the transportation :sad:

The Marantz - Beresford DAC - Luxman - B&W :licklips: with Chord Carnival Silver Screen Speaker Cable combo was very magical, the speakers disaapeared, soundstage was big and awesome,never imagined that Luxman would drive B&W's with such ease, thanks to Amit for setting up this experience for us.

The B&W's and Ushers V 601 ( i think more to come on this combo as well) spoiled me that day, now the hunt for speakers is on......interesting times ahead hyeah:

Best regards,
Sachin

 

[vivekam]

B&W soundstage was brilliant! Luxman handled it with all glory. I think Beresford was also playing a role here.

Thanks to Amit for bringing B&Ws.

 

[sridhar-v]

Hi
What does the crossover slope got to do with SPL or for that matter with efficiency?

thanks

Pls see the link to 2 pdf files. In particular the diagram on page #2 of the wiki article. You will see how the 2 curves get summed to form one effective curve at the transition point. Now in this fig se the behaviour of the "legs". The l/f signal travels into the range covered by the higher freq. speaker. The shallower the cure (ie lower the order of crossover) the more the lower frequency will intrude into the speaker meant to handle the higher frequencies. so you will get muddling of sounds. Similarly more of the higher frequency band will also be fed to the l/f driver. The main constraint is the cost of manufacturing higher order crossovers.

files link:
h_ttp://www.megaupload.com/?d=PBZHIN8K
h_ttp://www.megaupload.com/?d=KRZH2OO9

I am also posting a ling to the page that calculates sp levels.

h_ttp://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Moderators - ** if posting of links is not ok pls delete. **
regards

Sridhar

 

[odyssey]

Thanks. the SPL calculator says nothing about crossover order. As for the description of the amount of slope - this is just the behavior of the order of the crossover you choose - yes ofcourse the smaller the order of the crossover, the lower the slope (the less the cutoff) and the higher the woofer freq as an example intrude into the tweeter, but what does this have to do with SPL?
The crossover order is chosen based on many aspects -
1. Driver response
2. cabinet design
3. price
4. design philosophy - spendors, proacs, Epos, etc probably all use lower order crossovers.
and more

You will actually find that typically the higher the crossover order, the harder it is to drive (not SPL but other factors such as phase offset and complexity), not the other way around. This is a function of using multiple components - L and C that the amplifier will have to overcome in the crossover to finally deliver power to the woofer.

cheers
Sridhar

 

[sridhar-v]

Agreed that SPL has nothing to do with crossover type. But the percieved quality of sound, particularly at lower volumes, has a lot to do with separation and clarity. This is where i have found, in actual listening trials, that crossover type makes a significant difference.

Sridhar

 

[askii2]

I left after the auditioning of B&Ws, so I am not sure whether a survey was conducted for AVRs as well. I am eager to know about AVR trials.

 

[sonosphere]

I left after the auditioning of B&Ws, so I am not sure whether a survey was conducted for AVRs as well. I am eager to know about AVR trials.

Hi Askii,
We have done demo of Hubballi's Marantz AVR and Viki's Yamaha AVR. Will post summary on those by this sunday (incl all remaining summaries..)
Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[vivekam]

I am trying to get Cambridge Audio DVD99 (universal player with a built-in DAC) as source. Any comments? It costs about 14K.

Hi Sups,

I am also looking for DVD99. Is it possible to listen to DVD99 in Pune?
Also I would wish to listen DVD99 along with any other entry level CDP.


Thanks

 

[sridhar-v]

Speaker wiring upgrade

Hi All!

The positive results we got when we used the cord speaker cables got me thinking about how I could possibly improve sq of the phillips speakers.

Got myself some oxygen free 16gauge wires from Amit. Arranged for banana plug tpe socket system. Got my friend to change the interior wiring. The original wires were shockingly thin compared to the replacement wires.

I also decided to upgrade the wires from amp to speaker. Did not want to spend much on this. So I dropped in at Jyoti Electric (opp PMC). Mr. Ahuja, after patiently listening to my needs, strongly recommended a specific cable he was selling. It was 0.75 Sq.-mm twin core with Mylar shielding & tin coating. Fitted my budget @ Rs. 34 per meter. So I bought 10m & connected to the banana plugs. (actually 2 sets -1 for the office also). The sound quality has improved dramatically. Much better soundstage & speperation/clarity. Best bang for the buck. ( Rs. 1000/- for the Phillips pair incl. sockets & labour):yahoo:

Attached photos show original wiring & comparison of wires.

http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3432&stc=1&d=1293860498
http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3433&stc=1&d=1293861226

 

[sonosphere]

Re: Speaker wiring upgrade

.... strongly recommended a specific cable he was selling. It was 0.75 Sq.-mm twin core with Mylar shielding & tin coating. Fitted my budget @ Rs. 34 per meter. So I bought 10m & connected to the banana plugs. (actually 2 sets -1 for the office also). The sound quality has improved dramatically. Much better soundstage & speperation/clarity. Best bang for the buck. ( Rs. 1000/- for the Phillips pair incl. sockets & labour):yahoo:

Attached photos show original wiring & comparison of wires.

http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3432&stc=1&d=1293860498
http://www.hifivision.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3433&stc=1&d=1293861226

Hi Sridhar,
I've been doing similar experiments recently...
I changed my RCA cables (DVDP to amp) from the stock cables to Audioquest "Snake" (2m length @ 1.6k approx, from Amit /AV Xellence). After the HFV meet, I was looking to add a little sizzle to the sound of DVDP that I had heard in CDPs. And I was surprised to see how this new cable gave me just what I was looking for and more... it also exposed some minor treble-end details that were unheard before (Though one minor downside... now the bass-end sounds a little lean. Amit told me that higher version "Sidewinder" has neutral sound and will make bass sound better).

Looking at your experience, I am sure going to give it try.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[sups]

Hi Sups,

I am also looking for DVD99. Is it possible to listen to DVD99 in Pune?
Also I would wish to listen DVD99 along with any other entry level CDP.


Thanks

Hi Vivekam,

You cant audition that in Pune unfortunately. You have to go all the way to Mumbai.

I will be back in Pune on 7th Jan, 2011. Let me know if you are interested. We can try to get a good deal together.

sups

 

[sonosphere]

DEMO# 6

Next demo added another dimension to the usual characters (gear!) This was Jaggervm's Denon DP-29F Turntable. So here was a chance to get some exposure to TT vs CD debate. As far as common song demos were concerened they were not possible, since they were available on CD's only. But we had sufficient collection of LP's to give a variety of demo. I recollect we played Hotel California, and Jhootha Hi Sahi (yes! from the latest movie). Jaggervm pls chip in with other titles we played. The Demo gear was the same from the earlier B&W 804s except of course the source changed to this Denon TT. Does it comes as a surprise that the observations are almost similar to previous demo. See the summary below

Denon DP-29F Turntable (sitting atop Arcam CD7, Cyrus Pre-pro on the left)

My impressions on this demo are a little different than some of "near unanimous" observations seen in the summary above. While lot of superlatives still apply to this combo as they do to the previous one (not surprising, since the remaining "muscle"-gear is same). that had Beresford DAC as source, I found the tonality to be on the warmer side, and warm presentation has a way of masking details on the treble end... hence I found the details dept. being just about ok. My old memories of a Thorens TT driven pre-power + Floorstander are closer to what I perceive as "neutral sound. These are of course "my" observations, and I request other attending members to add further description to this unique experience, thats hard to find these days.

Regds,
Sonosphere

 

[vivekam]

Re: Speaker wiring upgrade

Hi Sridhar,
And I was surprised to see how this new cable gave me just what I was looking for and more... it also exposed some minor treble-end details that were unheard before (Though one minor downside... now the bass-end sounds a little lean. Amit told me that higher version "Sidewinder" has neutral sound and will make bass sound better).

Looking at your experience, I am sure going to give it try.

Hi Sonosphere,

I too have changed my DAC cables with Chord silverscreen. I would say now bass is less boomy, vocals are very clear.

I would say your Audioquest will sound good with a CDP.

Thanks