Raw Transfer in PS3

[venkatcr]

Yesterday I spent considerable time setting up a HT system using Yamaha 663 and Canton Speakers. The owner wanted to use a PS3 as a player and I connected it to the AVR and through it to the TV using HDMI cables. When I inserted a copy of Iron Man and played I was stumped as the sound as pathetic. I knew the 663 does have good sound and was scratching my head when I noticed the 663 displaying PCM. The PS3 was decoding and sending unsatisfactory audio signals to the AVR.

I went back to the PS3 set up menu and played around the settings for a while. Irrespective of what I did, the PS3 kept sending data in PCM format. The PS3 has a menu listing all formats include Dolby, DTS, PCM 2 channel at 44.1KBPS and so on till PC 7.1. Against each is a small check box into which you can insert or remove a check mark. I removed all the check marks excepting Dolby, DTS, and PCM 2.0 at 192KBPS. The PS3 continued sending the data in PCM format.

To make sure I connected a Sony DVD player, and the system sounded superb for the same DVD.

If anyone can advise me as to how to set the PS3 to send data in Raw format, I will be obliged.

Cheers

 

[teky]

Hi,

Just make sure you have the audio set to output as LPCM and not as bit stream in BD Settings?

 

[realactivex]

Venkat,
I had the same problem a couple of days ago, when my BD player sent PCM signals and sounded pathetic. Not sure if these work on a PS3, but hopefully might provide you a clue.
1. ensure that the receiver incoming sound format is set to Auto.
2. If PS3 has something like audio out format- audiophile or anything (which does not say PCM,) use it.
3. Finally, your blu ray disk has audio options in the disk set up. ensure that you choose the most apt one .( what i have noticed is that in cases where multiple audio streams are available, the 2 channel dolby is what is default)
4. Finally, if you cant do anything and your PS3 still sends PCM signals, do not subject it to further processing in the AVR. Just use some "dvd direct" type of audio DSP mode.

This will be very interesting on how you were able to resolve it.. I am really tempted to plug in my yet unused PS3 to my system and see how it works
Please post your findings..
Regards

 

[shailenderb]

Venkat:

Go to settings and select the audio output (for BD/DVD) as Bitstream. PS3 should send raw audio to your receiver which should be able to decode it.

Warm Regds / Shailender

 

[realactivex]

@Shailenderb-> I am not sure if PS3 has a bitstream output option. Infact, if i recollect it, that is probably one of the reasons why there is a market for other BD players. Minus this one feature i would rate PS3 are unbeatable. There was news in some sections of the press that Sony intentionally excluded bitstream output form the PS3 so that i could use this as a new feature for its regular BDP players like the S350 etc.
My two cents, and i could be wrong.

 

[hemantwaghe]

Venkat Sir
Pls let everyone know the solution - if found

Modern gadgetary incresingly becoming complex with too many and useless choices..

We went through hell while setting vinay's denon on auto mode.....

 

[Asit]

Where is Shuvc of Kolkata who has described his family as a "playstation family" and has been owning all kinds of playstation models for some time now. It is likely he has an answer. I am interested since we were considering buying a PS3.

 

[suprateep]

venkat sir do the following:

1st Step:
Sound Setting ... Digital Out (Optical) ... check Dolby Digital and DTS ... save settings
2nd Step:
Set BD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital & HDMI) to Bitstream

This should work fine - works for me.

Additionally see if the ps3 has got the latest firmware - the older firmware had some problems with decoding DTS tracks (Dolby used to work fine though).

Also try a good quality optical Cable and some other DVDs. (i assume its a DVD like you mentioned).

BD will output as LPCM in PS3 - DVDs etc should be ouptut with DTS or Dolby passthrough with the above mentioned settings.

PS: Also check if Dolby is workign fine - sometimes DTS fails but Dolby plays fine.

 

[venkatcr]

Just make sure you have the audio set to output as LPCM and not as bit stream in BD Settings?

I want raw digital data to be bit-streamed to the AVR. The sound from the PS3 was not satifactory to me, and I do not want it to do any audio processing. If I choose PCM or LPCM, the PS3 will be decoding and processing the audio, and I do not want that.

I had the same problem a couple of days ago, when my BD player sent PCM signals and sounded pathetic. Not sure if these work on a PS3, but hopefully might provide you a clue.
1. ensure that the receiver incoming sound format is set to Auto.
2. If PS3 has something like audio out format- audiophile or anything (which does not say PCM,) use it.
3. Finally, your blu ray disk has audio options in the disk set up. ensure that you choose the most apt one .( what i have noticed is that in cases where multiple audio streams are available, the 2 channel dolby is what is default)
4. Finally, if you cant do anything and your PS3 still sends PCM signals, do not subject it to further processing in the AVR. Just use some "dvd direct" type of audio DSP mode.

This will be very interesting on how you were able to resolve it.. I am really tempted to plug in my yet unused PS3 to my system and see how it works Please post your findings..

The 663 automatically senses the incoming signal and decodes it properly. It just needs the signal to come in raw digital format. In the disc, we did choose the appropriate settings for Dolby/DTS. Most discs play the initial few minutes (Advertisements and trailers) in 2.0, and then switch to 5.1 when the main feature film start.

When a source sends PCM signals, most AVRs will, by themselves, shift to PCM mode, and not process the data. Even if I wanted further processing at the AVR, it is not possible.

I am used to most players having an option to set raw, PCM, etc. I was stumped when I did not see that option in PS3.

Go to settings and select the audio output (for BD/DVD) as Bitstream. PS3 should send raw audio to your receiver which should be able to decode it.

The PS3 has just one option in Set Up. It is called 'Audio Settings'. When you choose that, you get 'Automatic' and 'Manual'. In Auto you have no control. In Manual, it shows the options I listed above - Dolby, DTS, PCM 2.0 @ 44.1 ...... etc. You can chose one or more of these. This does not seem to do anything.

Pls let everyone know the solution - if found. Modern gadgetary incresingly becoming complex with too many and useless choices..We went through hell while setting vinay's denon on auto mode.....

I have to read the manual in detail and play with the system and see what happens. I was just hoping someone had faced this problem before and found a solution.

I shall certainly post my conclusions if I find one. BTW, my initial impressions of PS3 decoding and DAC was that, even for movies, it is best avoided. The sound was weak and anaemic.

Cheers

 

[ashishkesarwani]

In your case if your have connected your PS3 to your amp via hdmi then I would ask you to select auto via the audio settings menu of the PS3 and let it set the options on its own. Then when you play a DVD press the Triangle putton on the PS3 remote control which comes up with an option menu on the screen, shift using the arrow key to the icon which says setup, there you go to the last option which lets you decide the audio decoding option in LPCM or Bitstream, there if you select bitstream then your amp would get the raw signal from PS3 rather then PS3 processing the same.
If this option doesn't work for you then connect your ps3 with your amp using optical cable and then again run the audio configuration settings under the ps3 settings menu and this time select Optical instead of HDMI and then let it choose the settings automatically.
I hope this sloves your problem.

 

[teky]

If you're outputting audio over hdmi, lpcm is the best setting, as it'll give you dd / dts / dthd / dts hd ma (ps3 decodes). However bitstream will still give you 5.1ch - with the amp decoding - just dd and dts though. The reason for outputting as Linear PCM is that the PS3 does not support outputting HD sound as Bitstream. I think PS3 wouldn't satisfy an audiophile in this area.

If output is over optical, lpcm will only give you 2ch due to its lower bandwidth. Bitstream is the correct setting - again, this'll give you dd and dts

 

[s2nseek]

Consider this, if your BD player gives raw output, then the AVR does the decoding and process it. Instead, PS3 does the decoding and gives out the processed signal as LPCM for amplification. Make sure the firmware is current in PS3 and appropriate options are selected in PS3 for audio.

I understand that you want the raw output but PS3 will NOT do that. Besides, the decoder job is to just decode the signal and not do any further processing. It really does not matter where the decoding happens. So, when you are using PS3 as source for BD, none of the decoding lights in AVR will ever come up. The Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD are supposed to be of the same quality of the studio recording and its bandwidth can only be supported by HDMI. In order to enjoy the true reproduction of the studio recording, you should never use any AVR DSP.

Also, when you are playing BD in PS3 press Select button on the remote and you can see the current option selected for audio. If you dont see 5.1, then using audio option of BD, explicitly select the appropriate one.

If you are still not happy with the sound, realize this, PS3 and BD technology is the brain child of Sony and I sincerely doubt Sony would ever let down PS3 in terms of audio quality output. The problem should be somewhere else.

 

[venkatcr]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I shall try some of them and come back.

A clarification to avoid some confusion.

I was not playing a Blu-Ray disc but an ordinary DVD. That is why I wanted bitstream.

I do understand that I need to use PCM and/or HDMI for HD audio. All players should be able to send HD Audio also in raw format over HDMI.

I have used the highest quality HDMI connectors and speaker cables.As I said, when I used an ordinary DVD Player, the AVR really shone with excellent sound,

If you're outputting audio over hdmi, lpcm is the best setting, as it'll give you dd / dts / dthd / dts hd ma (ps3 decodes). However bitstream will still give you 5.1ch - with the amp decoding - just dd and dts though. The reason for outputting as Linear PCM is that the PS3 does not support outputting HD sound as Bitstream. I think PS3 wouldn't satisfy an audiophile in this area.

You are correct. The PS3 sound output as I mentioned above is far from satisfactory. Any modern AVR will have better sound decoding and DACs.

Consider this, if your BD player gives raw output, then the AVR does the decoding and process it. Instead, PS3 does the decoding and gives out the processed signal as LPCM for amplification. Make sure the firmware is current in PS3 and appropriate options are selected in PS3 for audio.

As I said before, I wanted the AVR to decode as the PS3 sound was far from satisfactory. I did not want the PS3 to do anything.

So, when you are using PS3 as source for BD, none of the decoding lights in AVR will ever come up. The Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD are supposed to be of the same quality of the studio recording and its bandwidth can only be supported by HDMI. In order to enjoy the true reproduction of the studio recording, you should never use any AVR DSP.

HD Audio is just lossless compression, and decoding and DACs will continue to have a major say in the sound output. I felt the PS3 was lacking in this area. The 663 is capable of decoding HD Audio by itself and certainly has better DACs. And, all players are supposed to have the facility to send HD Audio in raw format through HDMI. I am sure the PS3 also does it. I just have to find out how.

To Ashish and Suprateep, thanks for your suggestions. I certainly do not want to use coaxial or optical digital, and want to send all data through HDMI only. Also I do not have to try other DVDs (though I did try a few others) as the same DVD worked very well with an ordinary DVD Player in the same set up. The 663 recognised the incoming signal as DTS and played it well.

Cheers and thanks for all the help.

 

[shailenderb]

@Shailenderb-> I am not sure if PS3 has a bitstream output option. Infact, if i recollect it, that is probably one of the reasons why there is a market for other BD players. Minus this one feature i would rate PS3 are unbeatable. There was news in some sections of the press that Sony intentionally excluded bitstream output form the PS3 so that i could use this as a new feature for its regular BDP players like the S350 etc.
My two cents, and i could be wrong.

Realactivex:

Fortunately you are wrong PS3 does have Bitstream output option. Only it is under BD/DVD Settings and not audio settings. Pl explore the settings once again.

Regds / Shailender

 

[shailenderb]

Venkat:

The Bitstream option can be found under BD/DVD settings and not Audio options. Pl check it once again. It clearly gives two options - Bitstream
and LPCM. Since you are using HDMI, it should definitely give out better
audio output on the 663. Also pl check the firmware version of PS3. The
current one is 2.80 which includes normalisation of audio files.

Warm Regds / Shailender

 

[realactivex]

Realactivex:

Fortunately you are wrong PS3 does have Bitstream output option. Only it is under BD/DVD Settings and not audio settings. Pl explore the settings once again.

Regds / Shailender

@Shail -> Thanks for pointing it out.. I should have phrased it better. What i mean is that this Bitstream output is not full fledged as we tend to think..It cant do HD stuff. So the reason is kind of self defeating. We would all expect to use bitstream so that the superior Decoders and DACs in the amp can be put to use for sound processing. But Sony, as part of its plan to keep its dedicated BDP lines alive decided to not give full bitstream functionality to PS3. What PS3 does is to decode all the HD formats internally and send it via LPCM. This would be less than audiophile grade. My two cents.

 

[teky]

What i mean is that this Bitstream output is not full fledged as we tend to think..It cant do HD stuff.

Are you sure on this, Some BR players can send compressed over bitstream for the HD audio to be decoded by your amp....

I may be wrong though

 

[suprateep]

this thread is going haywire.

Venkat sir did you try the same setup
1. with other DVDs (with dolby digital/dts)
2. updated firmware of the ps3

I use the ps3 the same way as earlier mentioned in the post with my okyo 606 and get passthrough dts/dolby 5.1 to the receiver.

 

[realactivex]

What i mean is that this Bitstream output is not full fledged as we tend to think..It cant do HD stuff.

Are you sure on this, Some BR players can send compressed over bitstream for the HD audio to be decoded by your amp....

I may be wrong though

my comment was in relation to the PS3 only. I also have a samsung BDP 1500 which beautifully does the HD bitstream. I am sure there are a lot of players in the market which can send HD over bitstream.
Venkat sir, Apologies for hijacking this thread. I will keep mum now on.

 

[s2nseek]

I really enjoy this posting: Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA on PS3 Developer Flotsam

On side note: After doing some research, no HD content will be passed out through optical or coaxial due to bandwidth and over zealous copyright protection of the studios